The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Scout scopes on big bore dangerous game riflesGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Sorry if this subject has been covered already. If it has I haven't seen it so here goes........ I have a Leupold 2.5x scout scope on my .500 A2 and I just wanted to get some opinions from AR on the virtues and weaknesses of such a setup. I've had a few guys tell me it was a bad idea because of the limited field of view. I only find this to be true when closing one eye while shooting. With both eyes open I see very well and don't have to fear the dreaded "scope eyebrow" when shooting snap shots or shooting from the awkward positions that one is bound to eventually have to deal with. That said, I don't see too many big bore shooters using scout scopes. Why is that? | ||
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This has fallen out of fashion these days but is a highly effective setup. It keeps the action open like open sights but gives more precision than open sights. I shot a charging buffalo with a scout scope setup with a 2.5x scope and never felt handicapped, will be happy to do it again. The late PH Carl Labuschagne had this type of setup on his 505 Gibbs and was of the opinion that whatever the calibre a buffalo rifle should be scoped for the 1st shot. | |||
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I like the setup and again, as long as I keep my eyes open, the field of view is excellent. When I shoulder the rifle I see the target very quickly through the scope and my left eye sees everything around the target, The same thing applies to my NECG peep sight that backs up my scout scope and I don't see too many big bore shooters using peep/ghost ring sights either. Maybe it's tradition or maybe people just don't like a setup like mine. Either way, I'm curious to know. | |||
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I put a Leupold 2x EER pistol scope on my Mauser 404 over 35 years ago when my eyesight was good for both short sighted and long sighted vision. I originally set up the base and rings for a single point sight which worked well enough for game shooting but not so good for deliberate target shooting when trying out different loads, cast bullets etc., I found the dot in the single point sight starts disappearing if you are taking your time with shots on target and the dot also covers quite a bit of your aiming point. The scout scope is very good for shooting using both eyes open and the field of view is not limited, but it also works well if taking deliberate aim at a stationary target using the one eye shut style as most do when using scopes and the Leupold has a nice 30/30 reticule with a finer aiming point so is good to go on longer distance targets. My scope is not in the fully scout position as you often see them mounted, I refer to it as semi-scout, as it has the ocular lens just to the rear of the receiver ring still leaving most of the action unrestricted and easy to recharge the magazine. I didn't have to drill the rear receiver top or alter the bolt handle so this was a plus for me. My eyes are such now that I use spectacles for excellent long range vision but do not need them for short range so when wearing spectacles open sights are blurred slightly while the target is clear. The scope takes care of all that and I couldn't do without it now. I could easily replace the EER scope with a reflex sight anytime I wished with the bridge mount set up I have on the Mauser. Some find the 'look' of a scope mounted in the scout position as odd and when the scope is out along the barrel I would agree that it probably is but I think my setup is a good compromise for 'looks' and it certainly makes for easy access when loading the magazine and if ever you had a jam up it would be much easier to sort out that if a scope covered the whole action, especially if mounted low as they should be. | |||
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I have two rifles so set up nothing wrong with them and they work well. | |||
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Thanks guys! I'm starting to think I might not be so weird after all. My gunsmith didn't like the idea so much and thought I'd wanna switch to my standard scope setup. | |||
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Rule Number One: if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I haven't tried one yet, but I hear lots of good from people who have on a DG rifle. For sure it will keep you from magnum eyebrow. | |||
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I have a 450 Lott by AHR. It is set up with a quick release low variable power scope as well as a quick release RMR that sits on front ring. It also has irons so I have three sighting systems. This covers all bases. Not exactly what you asked but just a thought of another option. The RMR is fast and accurate as well as much lighter that a scope and less cumbersome. Hope this helps. | |||
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I've got a Leupold 4-12x standard scope as well for lobbing bmg bullets over longer distances at the range....or maybe 535 tsx bullets at deer and elk should I feel the desire to do so. Generally though, it'll wear the scout scope and ghost ring. | |||
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If you like it,and it works for you then that's all that counts. On a DG rifle I prefer iron sights mostly..I use Talley mounts with a Talley Peep sight on most of my DGRs these days but I have no problem with a barrel mounted shallow V, but if I combine it with barrel mounted irons I will file down the one standing as it interferes with the peep but I can still use the one or two down, gives a lot of options.... The longest shot I ever took on DG was one 225 yard shot on a buffalo with A.J. van Heerden, AJ called it the T pot bull, it just tipped over like a T pot and never moved, it was also my only instant kill on shoulder shot buffalo. I have had a few one shot kills, but that was my only "instant" kill.. I tried a barrel mounted scope, din't much care for it, it just didn't fit me. If I have a scope on a DG rifle it will be a 3X Leupold, as a rule, but any quality low power scope, vairble or fixed will work. I won't own a gun without iron sights on it..Also when I refer to a DG rifle I'm talking a 416 Rem or 404 Jeffers in bolt guns, and the 450-400 in doubles..Ive tried the .470 and 500s and they are great killers, just felt like they were more than I required. I do feel the larger the caliber them more they need to be iron sighted..Just stating my opine for myself only. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Since I usually shoot dangerous game within 40 yards, I find open sights work fine. I've also used electronic sights including a Eotech with excellent results. The RMR on a DGR with open sight backup would be a perfect set up. I've used Scout scopes and they work but would be a bit slower than RMR. Anything that you shoot well is always an option.-Rob Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large numbers to do incredibly stupid things- AH (1941)- Harry Reid (aka Smeagle) 2012 Nothing Up my sleeves but never without a plan and never ever without a surprise! | |||
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My 1x scope **slightly** restricts reloading clearance. Otherwise, I'm very happy with the setup, although I've yet to get the rifle to Africa.  analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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It matters not how weird it might seem, if you like it, and it works for you, go ahead and do it. | |||
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Probably seen it before but this is my set up with a 2X Leupold which replaced the Single Point sight using the same Weaver rings and base. The Single Point in the photo is only an example, identical to but not my original one.   | |||
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Eagle 27, that is a mighty handsome rifle there! Who built it and what's the caliber? | |||
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We mount the EIR (Extended eye relief)scopes in QD rings on big bores all the time as they are very popular on the ultra-big bores. The Leupold FX 2.5 EIR is much different than what they call their "Scout Scope". The "Scout Scope does not have the eye relief that the EIR does. I would post some pictures but I can't remember how to do it from my Photobucket account, or the process has changed. | |||
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Go to page 2 and find my thread ".500 A-Square is finally finished" and check out the post by Cold Trigger on uploading pics. It's directly above my first rifle picture. It's easy to do if you follow his directions. I'd like to see your collection! BTW, you guys really know how to dress up a bolt rifle! Where are you located in Montana? | |||
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I believe I'm using the same scope. I'm not trying to be argumentative but on the Leupold website it is called the Fx-ll Scout IER 2.5 x 28 mm Duplex to be exact. That's why I called it a scout scope but IER will work too.  | |||
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Yes, IER not EIR. My mistake. Leupold makes a new model this year that is the VXR 1.5-5x33 that they are labeling a scout scope. That's the other one I was referring to. The eye relief is OK if you keep the power down low, but if you turn it up you lose field of view. Of course you could mount it further back but then you lose the advantage of a "Scout Scope". We are in Corvallis. | |||
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Wow, after those rifles, my .500 A2 feels so ... small!  The picture was taken to show some of the rifles and pistols that I've had magna ported. The Steyr-Mannlicher is a .375 H&H, The M70 is a .300 WinMag, the Juenke-Saturn is a .300 ICL and has a Saturn (ugly!) brake, the A2 Hannibal is, as I've said, a .500 A2. The S&W 686 is, as you'd expect, a .357. I agree with you about the clearance issue, but thought that I'd mention it in the interests of complete disclosure. I hate it when there's a quirk to something and nobody ever mentions it; then I find out after the fact. analog_peninsula ----------------------- It takes character to withstand the rigors of indolence. | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by analog_peninsula: Wow, after those rifles, my .500 A2 feels so ... small! The picture was taken to show some of the rifles and pistols that I've had magna ported. The Steyr-Mannlicher is a .375 H&H, The M70 is a .300 WinMag, the Juenke-Saturn is a .300 ICL and has a Saturn (ugly!) brake, the A2 Hannibal is, as I've said, a .500 A2. The S&W 686 is, as you'd expect, a .357. I agree with you about the clearance issue, but thought that I'd mention it in the interests of complete disclosure. I hate it when there's a quirk to something and nobody ever mentions it; then I find out after the fact.[/QUOT I think the .375/500 A2 combo would be the bees knees for a mixed bag antelope - elephant hunt. I really like my .500 A2 and believe (unbraked) it is about my limit for recoil while shooting from various field positions. Yes it is small compared to those beautiful dino stompers from AHR. I wanna get a .600 OK but it would only be shot offhand I imagine. I don't like muzzle brakes and the high pressure .585- and up cartridges might seriously hurt a guy from field positions or twist loose from your grip in a hurried shot. As a stopper that is only shot offhand, I'm sure they are very comforting! When I get a .600 ok, it'll probably be just a fun gun although I'll surely hunt with it some too. Back to the topic at hand, I think a scout/ier scope makes sense on anything .458 and up that will be used on dangerous game. A scope cut from a monster caliber during a charge could make for a very bad day. The extra eye relief provided by a scout/ier scope makes a lot of sense to me if a guy can get used to shooting with both eyes open. I've used them quite a bit, handgun scopes too, so I guess I'm used to it. Ditto on the quirks! | |||
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Wow, those are truly works of art! Is that a curved metal butt plate on the T-Rex? Holy crap that would hurt! I think I handle recoil pretty well but I might have to load up on morphine to shoot that thing! I believe I've seen most of those rifles on your website but it's been a while. I may have to hit you up on a .600 OK in the near future (I'd probably just have a ghost ring/sourdough set up on it). I've heard nothing but good things about AHR. BTW, I think the scout/ier scopes look good on big bores and I'm glad a guy with your excellent reputation builds and sells rifles set up with them. It seems that more experienced big bore shooters like ier's than I thought. | |||
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I have a few rifles .308 cal and under that are scope only but everything bigger has irons & scope....or just irons. If your scope fails and you don't have backup sights, you may be S.O.L! I imagine you've seen a lot that in your neck of the woods.......and especially in your line of work!!!!! | |||
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Yeah, that is a steel butt-plate on that 577. The owner is a tough-as-nails 80 yr. old. I had to shoot it to sight it in. Got warmed up with a 505 Gibbs, then the T-Rex. Not fun, but all in a days work. The "scout" scopes are a great sighting system; you use them like iron sights, both eyes open. Target acquisition is incredibly fast once you get used to it. | |||
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I use the little Leupold Scout Scope (IER) even on a Ruger No.1 with the standard quarter rib ring locations. Adequate field of view, no problems. Never will touch my forehead even when pulled back this far. 450 NE re-chamber of a .458 Lott, of course the entire outfit needs to be sprayed with black Krylon before field use:   | |||
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RIP, it's cool that you rechambered to .450 NE! What a great classic round matched with a strong, reliable and good looking rifle! Single shots and rimmed cartridges go together like meat and taters. I have the same rifle in .458 Lott and had it throated to have 3/4" freebore. That way I can load those big 500 grainers long (4" oal for most loads) and get an easy 2,400 fps at moderate pressures. I don't use a scout scope on it. It usually wears a Leupold 2-7x or I just use irons. I haven't had a scope cut yet but a friend did. It barely nicked him when target shooting with the scope dialed up to 7x. I may set the rifle up for a scout scope one of these days to have that option. I certainly like versatility. | |||
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80 years old?!?!?! I'm in my 40's and I'm already feeling old and brittle. Betcha when he was my age he was really something. A steel butt plate on a .577 T-Rex must feel like a heavyweight boxer giving you his best right hand punch right on the shoulder! I can't even imagine what it would feel like to hold the rifle wrong and have it slide off the shoulder and onto the bicep. Don't get me wrong. I think I can take recoil as good as the next guy but that steel butt plate doesn't sound fun at all and it would take A LOT of concentration to shoot that beast accurately! Taking the punishment is one thing but accurate shooting is something entirely different. Shooting my puny little .500 A2 gets pretty tiresome to me after 15-20 rounds. Especially from the bench or from field positions. Kudos to this 80 year superman. He must be a rough ol cobb and tougher than a $2.00 steak!  I completely agree on the speed of the scout/ier scopes. My ghost ring pretty is darn fast too....and accurate! | |||
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The customer is a tough old bird for sure, but he will only shoot it once or twice and then put it in the rifle rack. He's more of a collector than a hunter. I must admit I did fold up a Martha Stewart terry towel and put it between the buttplate and my shoulder. It still hurt. Contrary to what my wife says, I'm not stoopid. | |||
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It seems like Safari Kid purchased a .500 Jeffery from Bijou Creek that weighed about 7 pounds with a steel butt plate. That one made me cringe too! I believe he used a standard scope mount on it. He also had a .600 OK that weighed like 8 pounds. Get too close on these rifles and you'd lose the side of your face! | |||
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I have a picture of Safari Kid with a nice shiner courtesy of "Grizzilla", a short, little, 600 OK we built him that had a conventional mounted scope. | |||
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That's probably the .600 I was thinking of. I remember him posting pics of a very small rifle in that caliber and the rest of us cringing! I'll take mine @ about 13 pounds unloaded. It'll be next year but I'm gonna give you guys a ring and see about ordering a .600 OK. Out of curiosity, can you do a 3 or 4 shot magazine on a CZ 550 in that caliber? I think I hijacked my own thread! Ooooooopsss! | |||
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I could be proven wrong but on the Leupold website that I view, their FX-II 2x20, FX-II 4x28 and VX-3 2.5-8x32, are all called "handgun" scopes. I do not see these scopes refer to as EIR, IER or for that matter and more correctly EER? These pistol scopes have 18", 18" and 15" of eye relief respectively. The only scope actually listed as a "Scout" by Leupold is their VX-R 1.5-5x33 Scout FireDot with an ER of 7.10" (I don't see the term EIR or EER used in the specs for this scope either). This scope sounds to be a better proposition for mounting in the scout position on a rifle than the handgun scopes as this new model has a good large FOV on 1.5X just when you want it for close in running/charging game and then at 5X the FOV is still respectable for those longer shots more likely taken on stationary game. The Leupold scope I have on my .404 is the original M8 2x20 EER scope called as such by Leupold. | |||
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I am looking at it now on the Leupold site. It is the first scope model I see when I click on "Fixed Scopes." It says it is an FX-II Scout IER 2.5x28mm. I'm looking at it on my phone, so it may appear in a different order on your home computer. I have the 2x20 handgun scope as well on my .454 Casull. | |||
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FX-II Scout IER 2.5x28mm  Midway USA has a good price: $299.99 http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...elief-duplex-reticle The Leupold FX-II Scout is designed to be mounted forward on the barrel rather than the receiver, providing naturally rapid target acquisition while keeping both eyes open. The fixed power design and extended eye relief make it perfect for fast action shooting with a lever action rifle or scout carbine. Technical Information Tube Diameter: 1” Adjustment Click Value: 1/4 MOA Adjustment Type: Click Exposed Turrets: Capped Finger Adjustable Turrets: N/A Turrets Resettable to Zero: No Zero Stop: No Turret Height: Low Fast Focus Eyepiece: No Lens Coating: Fully multi-coated Warranty: Full Lifetime Rings Included: No Sunshade Included: No Sunshade Length: N/A Lens Covers Included: No Power Variability: Fixed Min power: 2.5x Max power: 2.5x Reticle Construction: Wire Reticle: Duplex Illuminated Reticle: No Battery Type: N/A Holdover reticle: No Reticle Focal Plane Location: 2nd Parallax Adjustment: Fixed Water/Fogproof: Yes Shockproof: Yes Objective Bell Diameter: 35.56mm Ocular Bell Diameter: 35.56mm Eye Relief: 9.3” Exit Pupil Diameter: 11.2mm Weight: 7.5 oz. Max Internal Adjustment: Windage: 110 MOA Elevation: 110 MOA Field of View at 100 Yards: 22.0' @ 2.5x I have one of the Matte Black 2.5x28mm IER Scout Scopes also, pictured above from the Leupold website. I have it in Ruger rings too. When I get LOP to 14.5" using a slip-on pad on a Ruger No. 1, instead of factory 13.5" LOP, they work fine for me at closer than usual Scout Scope position. My other Leupold IER is the (apparently now discontinued) Leupold 2.75x20mm IER/Scout Scope, Matte Silver, pictured (previous post) on the stainless 450 NE Ruger No.1. From Guns.com: http://www.guns.com/review/201...-on-a-ruger-gunsite/  | |||
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