Gentlemen,

I do a lot of tinkering with rifles in my spare time. Recently, I came into a Siamese mauser triggerguard and some other assorted parts and decided to begin rounding up the necessary parts to do a rimmed mauser project. I'm thinking of chambering in something American, that I can find over the counter without much trouble. I see a lot of both .405 Winnie and 45-70 in may area so they're what I'm looking hardest at. The question is, which one? Loaded to equal pressures in a bolt action rifle, which one will I get the most mileage out of?

Also, about how long should I make the barrel? I'm thinking 21"-24" range.

This is all merely planning for a project I'll likely start next year, but I am interested in hearing what you guys have to say.

Thanks,

Jason

Tex21,
I've had a few actions in the works for several years now... moving towards 50 and 450 Alaskan. I also was able to pickup several M70 type three position safeties from Jim Wisner. IIRC Robgunbuilder has looked hard at the .405 Win in a Siamese action. I have a friend that has a converted Siamese in .45-70 that feeds like a dream. Good luck on your project.
Jeff P

The .405 winchester would be just about perfect in a siamese Mauser. The boltface will work with only minor mods and the mag will be near perfect. You might be able to find a hot load that will match my long throat .405's in the encore. This is far and away a better choice than the 45/70 in that action. I know I have built two and neith feed worth a damn in my opinion although they do work. If I had it to do again,'d do a .405 nwin. Remember a 410 gr woodleigh at 2150 fps matches the old 450/400 ballistics and that load has killed a lot of buff in Africa.-Rob

Rob,
what's the measurements on the 405? rim dia, case lenth, and oal?

just have a horrible thought about a nagant

jeffe

quote:

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Originally posted by jeffeosso:
....just have a horrible thought about a nagant

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Jeff, I had the same thought and checked the .405 for size with the Mosin action.
My thoughts:
1. Cartridge is a good fit for the action/bolt.
2. Length is OK for magazine but width is too great for mag box. Custom or modified mag box is required. Good choice for a single shot.
3. Cost of new barrel installed, chamber reamer etc. will be much greater than value of finished rifle. Good fun project for home gunsmith if you don't care about value of finished rifle.
Jack

The 45-70 has a more diverse selection of bullets than the 405. The same is also true with molds if one were interesting in casting their own. In fact, you don't really get any choices with the 405 for bullets, that will be a difficult obstacle to overcome.

Cartridge dimensions are here @ http://www.reloadbench.com/cartspec.html

That being said, when it's your money and you only need to please yourself.

Hey Tex21,

I have a .405 that was built on a P-14 action. If I would have had the chance to build it on a Siamese action, I would have. I have no trouble with the P-14 action but the Siamese may have been more appropriate.

If you intend to go with the .405 I suggest that you try the 360 gr. North Fork bullet. It is a beauty and in my .405 they shoot great. I have been in the process of working up a good load for the .405. As soon as it gets a little warmer I will return to the range for more work.

If you have your chamber long throated you will be able to accommodate the 360 gr. bullet more easily, as well as the various 400 gr. bullets. It will also give a little more powder room!

The main problem with the .405 is that there is very little data on any bullets other than the 300 gr. In a long throated rifle with a strong action heavier bullets would be appropriate and probably more desirable. I am not much for developing loads for more than one bullet in any given rifle. (I have enough guns to do any specific job.) I had the .405 built with the 360 gr. in mind. I am hoping for 2,300 fps. If I get this kind of velocity it should handle anything that I would ever want to hunt.

I really like the 45-70 but I believe that the .405 is more appropriate in a bolt rifle. That is only my opinion!

All the best,

Smoker

looking at the drawings, it appears that other than length, it would be an easy fit in a nagant.. .1" difference with the 405 being longer

but looking at the 303, it looks like it's falling off the turnip truck easy in a 303 enfield, of any flavor....

hmmmm, i don't have a istaphor or the like laying around, TODAY.......

heh

jeffe

Here's a link from the surplusrifle.com site that I thought that I had already posted here in this thread - Converting a Siamese mauser to .45-70 - basically ER Shaw did the barrel and receiver rail mods.
Big Bore Siamese
I think the .405 is a pretty interesting conversion, the more I've looked at it since Robgunbuilder first mentioned it. If I only had such a barrel...Hmmm! Choices...are why these actions still are not barrelled just yet!
JP

I had a Siamese Mauser in 45-70. A BIG rifle, built solid, fed nice too. That "sticking straight out" bolt handle was kind of a turn off. Sold it to a gentleman in Oklahoma and put the money towards a CZ in 416 Rigby.... I haven't looked back --- no regrets.

If I was doing a .405, then I think I'd want the Winchester 1895 lever gun (still a vertical stack magazine) and go the Teddy Roosevelt route; however, a 500Jeffrey/505Gibbs/500A2 (moving up) OR a 300RUM/338RUM/338Lapua (moving down) are more likely candidates for my resources.

Thats the great thing about firearms, always something out there to "float ones boat."

EKM

Not too long ago, I saw a Siamese Mauser that had been rechambered for the .348 Win. case necked down to shoot 8mm bullets. I could not tell if the magazine had been altered or not, but it fed these "wildcat" cartridges OK. So a .450 or .50 Alaskan (or any of the other Ackley version necked-up or down .348's) might work out in such an action.