The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores Best production rifle in .458 LottGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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A good friend of mine, who is a active "PH", is interested to source a new, low cost (??) production .458 Lott to replace his H&H .577 sidelock Dominion Grade that is worth too much for him to keep. Any suggestions between the offerings of Messrs. Ruger, Winchester, CZ (nee Brno) et al?? | ||
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I suggest that he get a good one built, such as at http://www.rbbigbores.com or http://www.johannsen-jagd.de/ | |||
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From the makers you listed, go with the Ruger. It is ready to use out of the box, cannot say the same for the CZ. That or the Win. Mod. 70, weould be the two I would choose from. The only real reason to go with the CZ, is it's increased magazine capacty. But it will need to bed the action, cross bolted, barrel lug added, etc. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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The Ruger IMHO is the best out of the box 458 Lott on the market today. Some find the saftey leaver to small and that is the only neg comment i have had. The action cleans with use, and i have had NO feeding or extraction issues. The CZ needs $$$$$ in stock work etc. I am verry happy with my RSM. Semper Fi WE BAND OF BUBBAS STC Hunting Club | |||
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Go with the Ruger. I have an RSM in 458 Lott and I love it. Best, Starcharvski | |||
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I believe by cost being an issue that this gentleman wishes to keep his 577 and buy another rifle. as others have said, this is nothing to compare, right out of the box, with a ruger RSM you could spend 5 times that, and not have an all that much better rifle. if the gentleman wishes a CZ, he should place his order through American Hunting Rifles and tell Ed Plummer to go through it, personally, and make 1000 times certain it functions. On the CZ, he can replace the factory bottom metal with a wisner, and have an additional round down. I have handled both.. and find the ruger to be right, right out of the box. jeffe opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Is that a wisner floor-plate or complete magazine/trigger guard assembly? | |||
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jangili, I have a Ruger 458 Lott and could not be more pleased. It is very accurate right out of the box.I didn't like the trigger so I cleaned it up. I don't think you can find a better 458 Lott for the money. everyone has an opinion and this is mine. CHEERS | |||
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Someplace I remember reading that there were two problems with the Ruger as a DGR. First,and most serious, if you cycle too fast the spring isn't strong enough for the shell to get into position before you start the bolt forward resulting in a jam. The second was minor, the action isn't smooth. The articel recommended the Winchester 70, but I don't remember if it comes in the Lott caliber. | |||
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I Bin Therbefor, I have hunted DG twice in TZ with my Ruger 458 Lott and it preformed flawlessly. Don't believe every article you read. CHEERS | |||
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Those are the articles. | |||
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I would go with the CZ. You will need to get the bedding done, and stock bolt fitted, but you will still come out way ahead cost wise over the Ruger. Having said that, the Ruger is by far the nicer looking gun. On my 375H&H RSM, there were ejection problems until the 'smith polished up the ejector and installed a stronger spring, and the stock split under recoil (now ruger install an extra lug under the BBL), but once the problems were fixed, it was great. However, if you have to do all that work anyway, you may as well get the CZ at about 1/3rd the price of the Ruger. The CZs are good, reliable rifles. If you don't believe me, ask Ganyana. Cheers, Dave. Non Illegitium Carborundum Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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I don't think you can beat the Ruger RSM for the money. Mine has great iron sights, shoots great, looks good as well. I have no issues with my .416 ejecting or with any other Ruger i've owned. I did a trigger job myself, and it's ready to hunt with. My Rugers are all pretty damn smooth after a bit of shooting and will feed even the flat nose North Fork solids as well. The scope mounting seems to work, I've never had to change the scope after 300 full power rounds. The safety is a bit short, I just hunt with mine in the middle position when a shot is imminent and may need to take the safety off quickly. One of these days I'll have a gunsmith lengthen it a bit. A shot not taken is always a miss | |||
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Sambar, the CZs run about $850, and the Rugers list for around $1300. The CZs are not 1/3 the cost of a Ruger. Gunsmithing to the CZ, will even those numbers out. Hog Killer IGNORE YOUR RIGHTS AND THEY'LL GO AWAY!!! ------------------------------------ We Band of Bubbas & STC Hunting Club, The Whomper Club | |||
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Since you mentioned PRODUCTION rifles, the only candidate is the Ruger RSM. You have the quarter rib, decent trigger out of the box, and most times very good wood to go with it. The only thing is to have the action smoothed over and check the claw extractor and remove all burrs and sharp corners. Some have had theirs bedded just for peace of mind also. Lo do they call to me, They bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla, Where the brave may live forever. | |||
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I LOVE my RSM Lott but I would have a smith go over it. Flat bullets MAY hang up and the feed ramp might be adjusted accordingly. My floorplate latch gave up after a hundred rounds or so...no good in the bush. Any rifle needs to have the rounds put through it to point out any weaknesses to be fixed. That being said, I think the Ruger RSMs are THE best buy out there. Good to great wood, a WONDERFUL quarter rib and fine accuracy make for a good purchase. John There are those that do, those that dream, and those that only read about it and then post their "expertise" on AR! | |||
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Thanks guys for the good detailed advice. I'll pass all this on to my buddy... | |||
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The only problem is that it will cost $12,000 to get a gun from Ryan. crl The average man's love of liberty is nine-tenths imaginary. It takes a special sort of man to understand and enjoy liberty; and he is usually an outlaw in democratic societies. | |||
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Ruger-Tremendous action, and super strong.Ed. MZEE WA SIKU | |||
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Only thing I didn't like about my Ruger RSM was the limited magazine capacity, but it was a Rigby. NRA Life Member, Band of Bubbas Charter Member, PGCA, DRSS. Shoot & hunt with vintage classics. | |||
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Ibeentherbefore, Charley Helm posted what I figured you'd read. The extractor is a wide claw that is unlikely to fail. The ejector is a spring-loaded bar that slides into a slot in the bolt on the side of the bolt as the bolt is pulled back. Once the ejector has sprung into place, it acts like a block to the rearward moving cartridge, kicking it out of the port. The force of the spring never really engages the cartrige itself. The problem was that the spring didn't push hard enough, or have enough time, to get into place to kick the cartridge out when the bolt was pulled back too fast. That's why cutting the extractor groove in the bolt a little further back and a little deeper will give more time for the ejector to get into place. The article on the PH school tests looks a little old -- it refers to the Winchester "Classic" line as "new." Ruger has moved to fix their ejector problem. The Win Classic is not so new anymore, and BRNO's are not as easy to find; CZ's have new stocks. The Zastava arms imports from Interarms are now being handled by Charles Daly, and does not produce .458 Lott. The PH tests are grueling. It is fortunate that the failures are not as common in practice as they were under the test conditions... which is what you want from a test. It is definitely true that there's a lot of junk made in America (though I suspect some of that had been improved in the intervening time, with some notable exceptions)... but the glee that he seemed to take at pounding a guy's rifle with a hammer:
could be taken in a few different ways. Either he really wants to drive home the fact that a PH with an unreliable DGR is a tragedy waiting to happen, or else his comments might go a little better seasoned with some (just a little -- lives are at stake) salt. Having noted that, overpacking, over-pressure, etc, have caused problems, not just with Weatherby, but with .458 win mags at their first introduction. The powder was packed so tightly, it would cake and give squibs. Together with thin-walled "solids" of the day, they performed quite badly. The .458 Lott was intended to fix that problem -- but it looks like Hornady loads these hot. I haven't heard of any complaints, though I'm keeping my ears open. In any case, after enjoying my Ruger #1 in .458 win, noting that it is a non-DGR shooting a not-quite DG load (by some people's opinions), I finally got around to picking up the Ruger 77 in .458 Lott, along with dies and brass. I hope you have as much fun with this stuff as I've been having! Dan | |||
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The article you quoted is the one I was referencing. When I first saw it sometime ago, I tried to duplicate the "failure" using a brand new Ruger and a very understanding salesperson. I didn't fire the rifle, just tried to see if I could cause the failure by fast cycling. I'm sorry to say that I did. | |||
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I'd get a CZ and have a competent gunsmith attend to all the new gun bugs like: Trigger, Stock Bedding, Cross Bolt Installed (for big kickers), Feeding, Adjusting Length of Pull (in conjunction with), Better Recoil Pad Installed, Floorplate Latch Tightened, Get Extra Set of Sights & Magazine Spring All Screws Lock-Tighted in Place Over the years I’ve learned to do these basic things right off, even if it doesn’t look like they are always needed. The benefit of this is that out in the field where it all matters the most, my guns always work! Cheers, Rich | |||
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O.K, from your perspective, that makes sense, especially since Ruger have solved the problems that had occurred on my rifle (early production, no BBL recoil lug), but here in OZ a Ruger in 458Lott will set you back about $3,000+, VS the $1100 or so for a CZ. The good news is that both the Ruger distributors here have excess stock in these larger calibers, so good deals can be had by shopping around. As for the ejection problems with the Ruger, my 'smith solved it by polishing all the burrs off the ejector and fitting a stronger spring, I don't know if he also recut the ejector groove as well, but now the rifle performs flawlessly. That, a new stock, with a recoil lug brazed onto the BBL and bedded into the stock, 2 stock bolts, now no problems. Other than that, I'd go with richierich1, and get the CZ, fire a bunch of rounds to get used to it, and attend to any problems. I don't know about the relative pricing where you are but it's up to you, Ruger seem to have fixed the problems with initial run of RSMs, but CZ make a good reliable rifle, which will probably need some bedding work and an extra stock bolt. It all depends on what your friend wants. The best way, of course, is to try one of each, and see which one you like the "feel" of. Then get one, have the work done, and go have fun! Cheers, Dave. Non Illegitium Carborundum. Cheers, Dave. Aut Inveniam Viam aut Faciam. | |||
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I am certain that jiangli's friend's life is worth far more than that, and since a PH's rifle is his life insurance policy, it is probably an excellent investment. | |||
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I had the opportunity to visit with the author of the African Hunter articles on the Zim proficiency tests while I was in Harare '01 and '02. The rifle choices are what has been available in Zimbabwe, which is not the same as in the USA. We spent some time discussing the results. A PH friend in Zim asked me to source a left-hand stopping rifle for him. I figured out it would be easy, not so. I have been working with Jim Brockman to spec out and build a suitable rifle for PHs and guides. The result is the "JimSquare" rifle (for the two Jims involved). The first rifle is at Gunsite for student use in their dangerous game shooting. I wanted to send it to Zim for use in the proficiency test, but the various arms control regulations stopped that. Brockman can build your friend a .458 Lott for under $2,000. PM me for details. jim if you're too busy to hunt,you're too busy. | |||
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How many PH's in Africa Use Guns in this price range ?? or do they use standard rifles such as cz's and Rugers and winchesters or whatever with some smithing to check for reliability.  | |||
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