Okay,
brass, dies, barrel, stock, and bgages are on the way... reamer to come in a couple weeks.

Whos' got what for .510 or .505 center fire, not BMG or Black powder, or bigger?

jeffe

Jeffeosso,

I once owned a 505 Gibbs by Francotte. Sold it many years ago (DAMN!!!).

I current own and operate a 500 AHR.

Have a happy Thanksgiving.

Jeffe, when Todd E stops kissing your ass and pretending he's now Mr. Nice guy look in your email account. I forwarded little Todd's pictures that his wife was good enough to email for him.

Please post them for the little crybaby before he shits himself. I know everyone is going to be amazed and want to fall down before him.

Pecos,

I made a promise to some people I respect that I would behave myself. Personally, I don't see any problems with being civil. Jeffeosso hasn't been that bad. Personally, I don't care if the pics get posted or not. I figured that you and a few other might take their publication a little hard. It appears I may have been right in that regard.

Jeffeosso,

Tell us more about your 500 Jeffery project. What barrel, action, stock, etc, etc. This is what this site is best at. Have you ever built a rifle this big before? Not to sound condescending, but precise bedding is CRUCIAL with a 500 J. If you have any question don't hesitate to ask.

Jeffe- Sounds like a neat project are you going to use a 1917 enfield action for the Jeff? I've got 500 AHR dies and a 505 gibbs IMPROVED reamer and dies.-Rob

Jeffe, I've got a 500 Jeff. I built mine on a Ruger #1, should have done a 500 A2 but I already had a bunch of brass, and at $5 each, you don't want to let it go to waste. I try to keep velocity low since my rifle is a bit on the light side. I had "Bear Claw" do the muzzle break, which is almost a necessity, plus, he did a great job on it. I got my dies from CH4D and am not extremely impressed with their quality, but they suffice. The Bertram brass I got is probably the worst I've ever seen. Some cases had rims that were so rebated the extractor wouldn't even catch the rim, while some looked as if they weren't even rebated. I had to turn some rims down and actually thin some from the base. I've fixed all my problems and have an inexpensive big bore. I am just waiting on another source for brass.

Chad

Jeffeosso,

Who's got one/wants one? Some very lucky guys have one. Every one who doesn't have one wants one!

Do post pictures of your rifle when it is ready.

Good shooting!

/

ALF,
I think you just ruined me... that's about EXACTLY the "grade" I am after.. strong, perfect fit, releaved tang... dang!!!

Rob,
yeppers, going to use that ole p17 that's been in my gunsafe too long, as a throwdown -06. I did a nice "model 30" look to it. But, I am keeping the dogleg, for some reason, i like it.

RAB
thanks for your input on the 500 JAB... I am going to throat it .350 deeper... so I can use pulled bmg ball, at ~20� for blasting ammo

AHR
I've done to 416, myself... I'll be doing a friends Mbogo in the spring, but this one is mine. If I get stuck, I'll be sure to hollar on this board... (right after I send Rob a note, begging for help ) I did do the bedding for one of a pair of 510 wells 2 years ago... I releaved the tang, as I spoke about once before, my buddy (the smith that made them) didn't.. no difference, but I doubt they've been fired with full power loads since the smith sighted them in.

Sooner
thanks for the advice on the bertram.. its' common knowledge that it SUCKS... but, I'll give Andy a jingle, and ask him to sort them on "basic rim issues" when I get him to send me some more.

All -- comments and feedback, please..

and, without the help of those on here, for support and parts......

It's basically going to be a part's gun.. so everyone can start laughing...

Here's where I am going, so far
p-17 action, (which i'll fill the dnt)
potbellied bottom (i like it)
22.5" pacnor ~#6, slight custom contour
haven't decided on the trigger
custom reamer, +.350 throat
necg front sight
whitworth rear 3 blade
(low end) fancy english walnut... read "it has a couple lines in it"
crossbolts and the jeffe stock reinforcement...
which is to take a 1/4" heavy walled SS tube, run it down the wrist, inject steelbedding THROUGH it to fill. This might seem unconventional, but since that's how I repair broken stocks, i figured I just jump the gun (snicker)

i am aiming for 10.5#, nose heavy, at least 2 down, shotgun feel... it'll fit my long armed tall self..

PC,
Ah, yes, my dear friend from OZ.. nope... no sissy slots....(grin, nudge nudge... knowwhatimean)

I've been reading what JBelk has been saying about rust bluing.. and Ray's comments... I've got an sks that I am attempt this on a time or two... reason for the abmination of a rust blued sks? I have one, it's barrel is chrome lined... so i'll have to pay attention BUT...
Building a "rust oven" for that and duracoat... no, no no... not even for a giggle will i do the jeffe-ry in duracoat.

jeffe

[ 11-28-2002, 21:24: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

/

Alf,
You've got my gun... no wait... your's is a mauser... heh... it's just about what I am planning to do.. field gun, very little fancy.

jeffe

Alf,

Have you gotten that 500 Jeff repaired since your unfortunate lug set back? If so did it turn out well (hopefully it did).

Beautiful rifle by the way. How the hell do you manage to get those nice crisp digital pictures? I cannot seem to get the camera to do it! It is damned frustrating!!!

Jeffe,
I sounds as though you have a pretty good understanding of the basics of bedding one of these big 50s. I personally like a long barrel as it reduced the reaction torque felt by the shooter. However, to each is own. I was also glad to hear you are using, what sounds like anyway, a straight grained blank. Fancy wood is little more than expensive kindling when used on a 500 Jeffery or equivalent.

Hola Alf

Please could you explain the modification to the Mauser action ? how many rounds in the magazine ? you use a in line magazine with a clip on the right like the originals Sch�ler ? or it's a standard wide magazine ? could be possible a picture of the open bolt to see the clip/mag and the follower ? with and witout a round ?

Muchas Gracias

Daniel

I dunno. The .450 Rigby is sufficient monster for the present and if I ever decide that I must have something larger, I'll probably rebarrel that long Brno into a .510 Gibbs. I've thought about the .500 for sometime but I'm not getting any younger and would rather spend the money on Africa than on rifles. Of course should a hot lottery ticket ever come my way . . .

[ 11-28-2002, 20:07: Message edited by: Oldsarge ]

jeffeosso,
Sounds like a great project. The .510 bore is the way to go, whatever the persuasion. My 510 JAB's are merely 500 A2's with any throat I wanted. Go slow on extending the free bore and get it minimum to shoot the longest milsurp or 50 BMG target bullet you want to handle, taking great care with concentricity, of course. You will have a classy gun, the kind I like, without the snobbish inlays.

ALF,
Nice!

500 AHR,

The trick is to set the resolution of your camera to a max that will allow posting into printroom.com or huntingpictures.com, then use a tripod for steadiness and that ten second timer so your hands aren't shaking it.

Roger,
Thanks for the tips! My biggest problem with this particular camera is that the display is so lousy that I have a hard time telling if the image is in focus! The auto focus is a JOKE! Anyway, poor as the pictures are they have been posted for whatever that is worth.

Hope you are enjoying your Thanksgiving.

Ignore the POSeur or perpetuate steaming piles of crap.

POSeur: Still sucking eggs, eh?

Jeffe,

I just finished Rust Blueing a fellow students M1895G. It looks great, even if it is a 45-70 lever. The rust blue looks almost holographic, and the hot blued hardware looks like black holes in the finish. There is absolutely nothing to rustblueig, otehr then following the direction. I used the "Winchester Slow Rust Blue" formula. I dont recall where to get it from, I will find out for you and email you monday, as I have no school for the rest of the week. I honestly wish I did, I have too much work left for this semester.

Kristofer

I thought about building a 500 jeff then decided on a 500 A2 because it was more practical (cheap good quality Norma brass). Then I decided I needed a double, so I am onto the 500 NE instead.

If you are going to build a 500 jeff, I would recommend contacting Ryan Breeding in Palmdale, CA; Dennis Olson in Plains, MT; Butch Searcy in Boron, CA; or the Wells Sport Store in Prescott, AZ to see if the could do the basic metal work for you. Getting the rebated rim of a jeff to feed perfectly under every condition is no easy task, but the above folks know how to do it.

/

ALF,

Great pics -- thanks! They actually answer a question I've had for some time, about how to massage the rails to feed that beast. I see that they have left the rear part of the rails "stock" or maybe opened a little, to hold the round in, and then taper them out slowly so that it can rise up under the extractor. I couldn't see the ramp well, but imagine it's just one big gentle scoop in the middle to steer it upward.

I really don't think it would be that hard to get it feeding right this way. The hardest part would be how much to open them at the rear, and how much undercutting at the rear, to allow the round to rise enough for the bolt to catch the rebated rim, but not so much it pops out.

Fascinating.

Todd

Yawn . . . Elementary handloading lesson here: just because a big case can be loaded up fast doesn't make it a good idea. With .50 cal bullets the idea is greater frontal area, not maximum velocity or energy. I'd load a Gibbs to the same energy levels as my Rigby but get more effective impact because of the larger diameter bullet. The recoil wouldn't be any more noticeable but the animal would get hit harder. That's why the Gibbs, whether .505 or .510 is the king of Class III, not a Class IV. 'nuff said.

Alf

Thank you very much for the photos , great rifle .

Daniel

ALF,

beautiful rifle. Do you mean the complete rifle cost under $.2000 ?

Could you give me the address of the rifle maker

Thanks

Alf:

You are going to force me to drive up to Rupert one of these days to see your stuff. Most interesting for me.

I built a 500 J a number of years ago, very simulair to Alfs, which most of my guns are, old English that is...Holland and Holland style for the most part...

I used a Blackburn bottom metal for that caliber as I recall and cut the action and rails to match. I had the Jefferys specs at one time, but can't seem to locate them now..If I find the I will posts them, maybe I gave them to Belk or someone...

Bottom line is I could not get decent components and sold it and built a 505 Gibbs Imp. It kicked too much for me so I sold it too, besides it was too heavy, then I built a lighter one and it kicked the living crap out of me, so down the road it went, then after a couple of 458 Lotts, I settled on the 404 and 416...Blackburn makes a nice bottom metal for the 404 Jefferys.

Ray,
As always, you are a great place for guidence.. if you find the specs, please post
jeffe

I wonder if some of you would care to comment on the amount of freebore required (or desired)to shoot .510" ball out of the various .510" cartridges.

When I ordered my .510-.505 Gibbs reamer from Clymer I expected them to send me a drawing for approval (as they had for my .338-.378 reamer long before that), but no, they just grabbed it off the shelf and shipped it off at once. Great customer service, but at first I was not happy.

I had wanted only .3" of freebore to put the bullet right next to the rifling with .4" of full-diameter bullet inside the case, plus the boattail on the back of the bullet. Clymer had shipped the reamer with .4" of freebore.

I was wrong. Clymer had shipped a reamer as good as or better for me than one made according to my desires.

The reason has to do with the shape of the ball bullet. I have .510" military ball from two diferent sources, and both of them have .3" of full-diameter bullet behind the cannelure, a cannelure with a diameter of .495" or so that is .1" of the length of the bullet, and an additional .3" of full-diameter bullet in front of the cannelure before the spitzer point starts. A reduced diameter portion of the bullet that is not supported at both full-diameter ends is not going to help with ensuring cartridge concentricity.

So if you are not going to crimp into the cannelure, and you can't feed from the magazine, and you are not going to worry about losing the last tenth of an inch that would be left in the cartridge after you have used up the first three-tenths chasing the eroding throat, there is no functional difference between .3" of freebore and .4" of freebore when shooting military ball.

Does any of this make any sense, or have I neglected a crucial point?

How much bullet do you all keep in your various .510" cases when shooting military ball?
What was your reasoning?

SDS,
You got it figured right.

0.300" of free bore will handle the ball and AP bullets crimped as far back on that cannelure as you can go.

I sent dummies of 500 A2 fired brass so loaded with the milsurp black tip AP ~700 grainers (they are not target/match quality, but they do penetrate well and can shoot into MOA) to Dave Manson. He gave me back a reamer with less free bore than the standard 500 A2 from JGS, which had 0.400" free bore.

The Dave Manson reamer had 0.300" free bore.

If the throat erodes enough after 10,000 rounds you can proceed to seat the Hornady A-Max on out as far as it will go.

If you want to start of with the A-Max, give it free bore of 0.588" or thereabouts.

This is from my experience with the 510 JAB, which is the 500 A2 with any throat you want.

Alf, where did you get the bottom metal from on that rifle? Thanks - Dan

.

ALF:

Is that a Sabi rifle? If so, I believe they make their own custom stainless steel bottom metal in-house. At least that's what it says on their website.

I also meant to ask you before, regarding the lug setback problem -- was it the lug recesses in the receiver, or the lugs on the bolt getting mashed? Do you know if this is an early (case-hardened) action?

Regardless, its very nice.

Todd

[ 12-02-2002, 18:37: Message edited by: Todd Getzen ]

.

Thanks for answering my questions ALF. As I was recently telling someone else on this forum, when I saw all the pics of that rifle, especially the one in full recoil, I got weak-kneed and almost abandoned all my other projects / plans to do one of these. But now I'm back to sanity, guess I'll wait 'til finished with residency so I can do it right.

Enjoy that fine piece, and all your other ones,
Todd

I'll bet somebody Lapped those lugs and that's why they mashed. Ususally Mauser bolt lugs are casehardened and won't set back at all even with a .500 Jeff. Unfortunately, some people forget this and Lap the lugs for a better fit and grind off the case hardeneing which is only a few thousanths deep. The result is soft lugs that peen out pretty quickly.
Another interesting note is the way your cartridges lay in the receiver. One problem I've seen with rebated rim cartridges is the propensity to "Porpoise" when the bolt first contacts the case rim. This occurs most often on the top round in a three round stack. Unless the rounds are held completely flat during the feeding cyscle the bolt will over-ride the rim and stop on the rounds shoulder causing a jam. Getting a rebated round to feed properly is a juggling act between the mag box size, the rail shape and the follower design and spring tension. It's not that simple to get it to work reliably and that's perhaps why rebated rim cartridges have such a bad name.
I'm still working on mine.-Rob

Something to keep in mind about Bertram Brass, it's basic brass. It is annealled to be soft for forming into other calibers from the parent case. First time loading requires a soft touch. Fired cases will harden up and eventually require annealing to avoid neck splits...if you do a lot of plinking with your Jeff.

DD

[ 12-03-2002, 02:57: Message edited by: Double D ]

Horneber for less that $4.

I found this on huntington's

http://www.huntingtons.com/CasesHorneber.html

I am still lookg for a beter deal
jeffe