I would like to try shooting off proper shooting sticks.
I am not shure if I should go with a bipod or mono pod type.
I know the bipod type should be the steadest, but before I buy or build something I would like to here the opinion of other shooters that have shot standing from shooting sticks.

My big concern is how to hold the stick and the rifle. I know my first shot would be good but then I imagine the rifle forearm jumping up on recoil and the stick will falling over to the ground.
Or I hold the stick and the rifle forearm jumps up and fall past its' perch and starts swinging towards the ground with only my right hand on the pistol grip trying to arrest this motion.

Bench rest shooting my rifle (M70 Win 375H&H) is very accurate but it makes for unplesant shooting.
If I shoot standing I am not so accurate (hense the practice) but recoil is not a problem.
So shooting from a proper shooting stick looks like it would be perfect soloution for me. I just need to understand how to work the sticks with the rifle.

Search the Target and Benchresting forum first.

You will hear several approaches. Here is the one I've developed from safari experience(s) with tripod sticks.

As advised by my PH (I):
(a) hold the top of the sticks "all together" with the rifle fore-end. For right hander this means grabbing the one left-hand tripod post with the other two being on the right of fore-end. Some will say to nestle your shooting hand in the place where the three sticks meet. The important thing is that you not be stooping -- same height as normal offhand shooting stance.
(b) firmly shove the butt into your shoulder and press forward slightly, keeping from weighing down on the sticks too much.
(c) keep your head/cheek down, meaning "welded" to the stock until the gun has stopped recoiling. This requires proper length of pull FOR YOU, eye-to-scope alignment and so on being perfect. What this does for me is to cure my flinching.

Expect groups to open up to at least twice what you get from sandbagged rest. Yout Model 70 doesn't have a whole lot of extra room and trigger hand can get bashed about if hold is loose, yes?

(This ought to get yourself started, but look around the forum(s) and find the method that let's you hit where you are aiming.)

BNagel

I have been practicing for my upcoming hunt and will tell you this, for me, the bipod or monopod is damn near useless. When I bought the third leg for my Stoney Point it made all the difference in the world, very stable and allows you to concentrate on shooting instead of steadying. A friend made me a Safari style tripod out of bamboo and I like it even better! Good Luck!

Hello greenjoy,
There is an alternative and it does not include or involve sticks, mono pods, bi pods ,etc. It is called shooting off hand or standing. Impossible?? Not in the least, but does require a bit of discipline and practice but once learned, no more carrying of sticks and items or devices attached to your rifle, other than a sling. For formal match sytle shooting, timed off hand fire, the sling will indeed be of assistance but most will tell you that you do not have time to "get into the sling..." yet you have time to set up sticks????
For starters, go to the range and stand squarely in front of your target, assume it is 100 yards and make sure that what you are shooting at is something like a 9-12 " pie plate, either black or white, whichever you can see and then rotate til you are sideways to the target. Your feet should be for starters shoulder width apart, and then draw an imaginary line across your toes to the target to line yourself up. Orientation to the target. Take your rilfe and deliberately place the butt on your shoulder and pull your left hand back to the floor plate area and rest your elbow on your left side (assuming you are a right hand shooter) bend backwards a bit and aim on the target. You will wobble but that can be dealt with later. Hold rifle on target and shut your eyes for some 4-6 seconds. When opening them, where is the rifle pointing. UP, Down, Left, Right????
Use your left foot as an anchor and rotate either left or right to bring back on target and if you are higher than you should be, spread your feet or if you are lower, close your stance. You have built in sight adjustments in the position of your body holding the weapon. Using your left foot or right, depending on either right or left hand shooter, these foot adjustments need only be a couple inches and that will show up very quickly on the target/bullet impact. Can you hold the rifle still and on target?? The answer is NO, no one can and one learns to accept his wobble. Most will wobble in what is known as a horizontal figure 8 and technique is to "break" the shot when the sight/scope/post/bead, etc. is wobbling toward the black or wherever you are trying to place the shot in the game you are shooting. In addition to the above method, do not fire a single shot, only dry fire the rifle several times until you at least begin to realize the technique. In practice, dry fire 3-4 times, and shoot one live round. Both accomplish the same thing but lots cheaper and easier on the shooter and the rifle.
Many naysayers of this formalize style of off hand shooting, and no one is suggesting that you do this series of drills when shooting at game, but what the naysayers do not realize is that with a lot less practice than is realized, these movements and skills come readily to hand and second nature to the trained, skilled off hand shooter. Guess what, you will look like a complete idiot at first if you have not done all of this, but trust me, those making light of your efforts will later on be quite envious of your ability to shoot off hand with very good results. There are sources of study for learning this skill at shooting standing and a google search will give you some good references if you want to delve into it more. Again, just a suggestion.

I generally enjoyed shooting from my PH's shooting sticks.

These were set up with a bolt through the 3 sticks -- bent at 90 degs after passing through the first stick, then picking up the next two before being bolted. The PH usually set up the sticks. When configured with the bolt, the idea is to always carry the sticks with the leg with the 90 deg bend to be the one at the bottom, closest to the fingers, with the head with the bolts facing to your front, feet to your rear. When you set up, swing the bottom leg (the one with the bolt bent 90 degrees) forward. When it is set, open the two remaining ones to the left and right. These last two gives you the V that you rest the forestock on. Its very quick, keeps everthing clear which opens first, you're not fiddling with the legs while the client hunter should be getting on the animal.

As the client hunter, having tried two-legged shooting sticks, I was surprised and pleased with the experience. To be honest, my first real experience with the 3-legged sticks was when my PH got us on some impala, and he told me to shoot the 3rd from the left (honestly -- I don't remember, but my memory after all this time was that it was 3rd...). I brought my rifle to the sticks, put them on the sticks in the same way I set up the fore-stock on sandbags when shooting from a bench -- which is back near the magazine, very much like my offhand shooting position, target style (my elbow against my ribcage, straight wrist, hand very close to the trigger guard -- I DO practice a LOT offhand!). Snuggle up to the rifle -- which means getting up-close-and-personal with the sticks. I felt comfortable with almost all my shots. It translated well from my other habits. Oh, I didn't hold the sticks with my left hand; my left was on the fore-stock just in front of the sticks.

I don't know if you'll like these instructions... I've begun building my own sticks in the same configuration that my PH's used, and intend to practice with them and use them.

Driver's comments about offhand shooting are on the mark. A part of adjusting your feet is important... A big part of the idea of putting your arm against your ribcage, and more -- with the elbow directly UNDER the gun (your upper arm will have to push forward to get your forearm lined up to take the weight of the rifle striaght down through your elbow, through your ribcage, and down to the ground). You want to use your skeleton, not your muscles. Don't muscle the gun.. use your skeleton. In practice, get the gun on target, close your eyes, and see where the gun drifted... Do it a few times, and you'll notice the gun keeps going back to around the same place. Align your feet so that the gun goes onto target. That's called natural point of aim. If you don't line up, you'll always be muscling the gun over to the target, which gives you more of that wobble. With some discipline and practice, you can lower your wobble, and get the shot off when you're passing through the bull. You may noticed yourself trying to anticipate the shot, and "forcing the shot" -- which will almost always fail. Do your best to get it all to come together without forcing the shot. After a few moments, the wobble starts to increase.. If that happens on the target range, "refuse the shot." Lower the rifle, start over. Do lots of shooting, scoring targets, trying to get more and more consistently higher scores. You should use a .22 rimfire for a lot of this -- but don't neglect to practice with your larger rifles.

I hope this all helps!

Dan

Forget the sticks. Been there and done that. Practice the ol Robgunbuilder final challenge. Paper plate at 25 ( sometimes stuff is close in Africa) 50 and 100 yrds offhand. When you can keep 3 shots each on both plates offhand your ready for Africa. If its more than 100 yrds, find a tree, Termite mound or Bipod to shoot off of. The sticks dont help alot and generally are more of a pain than they are worth!. Practice shooting offhand and reloading quick and fast. Dont take the gun off your shoulder! Its really not very hard and with a few months of honest practice you can do it every time. Your Ph will be impressed!-Rob

If you want sticks, I'd say try these.
Long-grass Shooting Sticks
They are make height specific, and come apart to be packed easily.

The folks at Long-Grass are members of this forum and great folks as well!

The sticks are the ph's answer to safari clients that couldn't hit the back of a bus at thirty paces. I'd be embarassed to break them out around any of my regular hunting partners.

my answer is...

put a strap around the crossing point.. actually, a loop.

put your off hand through the loop, and the sticks between your hands...

tip the sticks back a little, pull forward with your left (off) hand, until there's pressure on the sticks...

shoot by holding the RIFLE in your hands, and let the sticks fall where they may... which means to the end of the strap.


works great with a monopod/walking stick

jeffe

quote:

put a strap around the crossing point.. actually, a loop.

put your off hand through the loop, and the sticks between your hands...

tip the sticks back a little, pull forward with your left (off) hand, until there's pressure on the sticks...

shoot by holding the RIFLE in your hands, and let the sticks fall where they may... which means to the end of the strap.

That's good thinkin jeffe.

I practice with a pair of homemade bipod sticks (which are identical to Roy Vincent's, as seen on Saeed's vids). I have found the way that works best for me is to hold the rifle like I would shoot it offhand, and then put the back of my left hand/wrist into the V of the sticks. With most rifles I don't lose contact with the sticks, but with the 470M the recoil lifts the hand out of the V and the sticks fall. I can catch them most of the time.

Anyway, for practising at the range the loop is a good idea. Not sure I'd want the loop around my wrist if a cape buff was bearing down on me though!

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
The sticks are the ph's answer to safari clients that couldn't hit the back of a bus at thirty paces. I'd be embarassed to break them out around any of my regular hunting partners.

Sure, but I find my bi-pods a lot more comfortable than a bench rest for load testing. Lean your other arm on something and I get about as steady as a BR but with less trauma.

Chris,
the loop, in that position, both allows the rifle to fire more "like offhand" AND, well, if the whole thing goes south, you just grab the rifle and run.. the sticks are along for the ride, without thought!!!

jeffe