.............jfm;;;;;;; Perhaps if you haven,t hunted alot with the .416,s in Alaska where we don,t have gun bearers .., And where a fair amount of dangerous game can and does get encountered at close range , like when you have fresh killed meat on your back ,,you can not understand the reason for flat shooting,, hard hitting , highly shootable .416 caliber rifle loads .....But I do and can and so I hunt with 300 -350 gr X bullets and soon GSC HV bullets ,.,.,A friend of mine who shoots a 416 and is a very good shot with it , only hunts with 400 gr factory loaded ammo ..He will not use handloads for fear he may get charged by a bear and the round in the chamber,, at that moment ,,,,may be the round he didn,t put powder in the case before he seated the bullet ...So if he got mauled,, it would be his fault ,, he would be to blame and he couldn,t blame any body else and consequently won,t attempt a shot at over 200 yards with his hunting rifle .........He also won,t use muzzle brakes , of electronic hearing protection ,...And he doesn,t smoke pot ,I could see all the backwards thinking if he was a pot head but he isn,t ...,,It,s amazing ................Any way here are some specs on the 375 ,.270 gr TSX @ 2700 fps , which is more generally realistic , than 2800 fps from an H&H ......And the .416 300 gr TSX @2800 fps which the Rem mag easily beats , even with a 20 " barrel ,,,,,,,,,,270 gr 2" high @ 100 on @200 , 8.3 low@ 300 and 24" low @ 400 4 feet low @ 500 yards ..@ 400 yrds it is going 2000 fps w/2450 ft lbs of energy ., .,.,., The 300 gr .416 bullet @ 2800 fps muzz..vel. 1.9 " high @ 100 yrds. on @ 200 8.26 low@300 ,, 24.2 "low @400 and 49.4 " low @ 500 yards ..@ 400 yards it is going 1930 fps and has 2500 ft lbs The huge difference tho is that @ 100 yards the 300 gr .416 bullet has 1010 ft lbs MORE ENERGY THAN THE 375 BULLET//.. .........It has 10 ftlbs more energy than the 375 , 270 gr 2700 fps load does @ the muzzle,,,,That extra ,very controllable thousand foot pounds of energy ,worked thru a bullet that will expand violently and out penetrate the smaller bullet may save you from getting chewed and scalped with your hands destroyed ect ect.... .....And the rifles usually weigh the same ,, ...............Thats why I gave away my last 375 H&H ...As a comparison .. The 300 win magwith a 200 gr tsx @ 2800 fps muzzel , which is realistic tho you may get 2900 if you push the envelop HARD .. It drops 7.5 "@ 300 yrds and 21.5" @ 400 yards .@ 500 it has dropped 43" So @ 400 yards it is only 2.7" flatter in its trajectory than the ,416 bullet but at the muzzle it has almost 1800 ftlbs LESS energy ..........................................So for all those who [JUST CAN,T UNDERSTAND IT ] there is your explanation ..........................................Now is the 375 H&H an all around execellent rifle ...Yes you bet ..one of the best ... But I prefer the .416 and I don,t give up ANYTHING at the longer range to other smaller "flatter shooting" rounds ......

quote:

Any way here are some specs on the 375 ,.270 gr TSX @ 2700 fps , which is more generally realistic , than 2800 fps from an H&H ......And the .416 300 gr TSX @2800 fps which the Rem mag easily beats , even with a 20 " barrel

I have no problems getting over 2800 fps with R-15 and 270 grain SAF bullets which is why I quoted thay number. If you are going to quote figures that optimize your argument then I understand your logic.

Don't let the velocity thing get too important ... the .416 with 350s at even 2700 fps is mighty potent longer range medicine. No need to push the envelope.

You have two wonderful caliber double rifles for dangerous game. Is either scoped? If one is, I'd keep the .416 and dump the Lott. Would leave you with a double/double battery for dangerous game and double/bolt battery for plains and dangerous game that is pretty hard to beat.

Pretty amazing situation when you can dump a good Lott and still have a wonderful situation. Congratulations!

quote:

Originally posted by jfm:

quote:

Any way here are some specs on the 375 ,.270 gr TSX @ 2700 fps , which is more generally realistic , than 2800 fps from an H&H ......And the .416 300 gr TSX @2800 fps which the Rem mag easily beats , even with a 20 " barrel

I have no problems getting over 2800 fps with R-15 and 270 grain SAF bullets which is why I quoted thay number. If you are going to quote figures that optimize your argument then I understand your logic.

..................................... ...............................And I can , with a couple book loads get over 2900 fps with my 416 remington .. .,., But after studying thing out I decided that 2800 was just fine ....Many 375 H&H are straining to do 2775 with the 270 gr X or TSX that is why I quoted 2700 fps ..............Remember Africa and 120 degree heat arn,t conducive to real hot hand loads .....The difference between 2700 fps and 2800 fps with the 270 gr tsx is 1.7 inch less drop and 210 ft lbs of energy ....However the chamber pressure is ALOT higher ... ....1 1/2 " difference drop @ 400 yards in my opinion isn,t worth the extra wear and tear on a nice 375 ............Understand I love the 375 H&H ......,, I like the 375 Ruger better , but that is because I like the Ruger rifle better ..........But I prefer the 416 if I,m on the coast or if I was guiding or hunting bears ..........If I were to hunt lion , which I may never do , I would use my 458 win ,300 gr TSX @ 2700 fps , or my 416 Rem 300gr TSX @ 2800 fps mv ..........but if I had to shoot a zebra or kudu ect @ 300-400 yrds I would prefer the 416 ...

gumboot -- check your PMs.......

I don't plan on hunting pg with a Lott, but that's not really relevant to the post.

I agree that the 416 is more versatile in terms of shooting smaller bullets at flatter trajectories to a point. I also know that the Lott has more versatility on the high end. I guess it really boils down to opinion and what is being hunted.

If pg is on the roster, it seems that the Lott would work, but not as well as the 416. The Lott might be a better option if one is only hunting the big grumpy stuff.

It's hard deciding what to get rid of, especially when you want both. However, I did dump the Lott, the 375, and the 9.3x74r. I'll be left with a 470, 416, 450/400 and a 9.3x64 I'm having belt off of a pre-64 M70 -06 action. I'll be sticking with these until something else that I can't keep my hands off of comes along.

I think there is a nitch for them all, but as you said some have to take a hike. If you are going to hunt coastal bears in Alaska, I think the 416 is the cream of the crop. If you need a scoped big bore, I can think of no better caliber than a 416, even if you get a 450-400 DR. The 458 Lott is IMO is great when you down load it to 2150-2200fps but then you already have a 470. So the 458 Lott would be my choice to sale.
When you go for big game if you take the 470 you have the 416 scoped. If you take your 450-400 you again have the scoped 416, you can do it all, and do it well.

After reading all the suggestions and discussions on the 416 verses the Lott. You appear to have decided on the Lott for plains game or the 416. I think they will work but they are really hard kicking / recoiling rifles for plains game. I know you may be able to handle it at the range ect. But when hunting you might be in a awkward position and have to make “that†shot. The heavy recoil may slow you down for fast follow up shots. I have to go back to what I recommended before.
I would keep the .375 and the 470. The .375 is great for the majority of your big game hunting and the .470 covers the rest. This makes the .416 and the lott redundant.
Bill

My 416 has a scope, so it doesn't make my 470 redundant. Also, I don't mind the recoil of a 416 at all. IMO shooting it off the bench hurts more than shooting it off hand in the field where the adrenaline makes shooting the 416 like shooting an -06, in my opinion. Or at least it seems that way when hunting hogs with either the 416 or the Lott. Besides, my pg gun is a 9.3x64 in the making as we speak.


My brother, my dad, and I are going to Tanzania in 09'to shoot 4 buff between us and some pg. We'll be taking the 9.3, the 470, th 450/400, and either the 416 or a 358 norma... a heavier arsenal because we really only have interest in the big stuff. Thanks for the suggestions guys.

Sell the biggest guns!
If you ever have enough money for hunting ele, you will have money to buy new boomers too - if you need them.

No, I have never shot an ele, but me thinks Taylor would think any man stating the modern .416 Rem not adequate for ele, nothing short of insane.

...........It wouldn,t surprise me if in a few years time I have nothing but 9.3x64 Brenneke,s and 416 Rem Mags .........And a 223 .....Yes lots of rifles are nice ,, but it is nice to just have one set of trajectories ,, and maybye4 loads memorized .......

Finally found messr. Weiland's quote regarding said subject;

"The Lott with a 400 grained bullet will do anything the Remington will do out to any range at which you might want to shoot such a bullet, and it will do so at lower pressures and with no case-sticking problems at all. Why anyone would buy a 416 Remington when the Lott is available is beyond me, but that is what make horse races."

"Dangerous Game Rifles" by Terry Weiland, pg. 151

Didn't realize this before, but he is specifically singling out the 416 remy. I assume this is because the Rigby and Weatherby have greater case capacities and can be loaded to greater velocities, and the 416 Taylor and other wildcats aren't worth mentioning in his opinion.

I've found that most of you don't necessarily agree with the statement, but it is difficult to construct a logical counterpoint to Weiland's claim. The only room for error in his logic that I see is that the 416 remington can be loaded with lighter, flat-shooting bullets that retain SD at lower ends than the Lott. One could make a case about availability, but I think at this time, 458 Lott rounds are nearly as available as 416 remy rounds... at least in this neck of the woods.

Does anyone else have any other points against Terry's conclusion...? Thanks.

............Ya he,s stupid ;;;;;;;;;No really He must have enough money that he can hire servants to carry his extra rifles ...............But if all he could pack along is one rifle then the 416 Rem mag with 330 gr or 350 gr MonoMetal expanding and 350 gr solids would work great from the muzzel to 400 yards .,.,..IF you were a very exceptional shot you could do it with a 350 gr X bullet ect and a 450 gr solid in the Lott ..........The Lott would hit a heavier blow but not be as easy to shoot at the longer distances . ......And the 416 is much easier to shoot accurately [ which is what counts ] than the Lott ....