My T-REX Project - A 577 Tyrannosaur is Born - aka The Dinosaur Killer

Hello All,

It was back in July of 2015 that I purchased 2 rifles from xausa (Bill), a fellow forum member here on AR. These rifles were built in the late 1970's by Bill and his partner, a then well know Custom Gunsmith named H.W.Creighton. All of the Creighton installed barrels are marked "CP" which stands for "Creighton Proof". Both rifles were chambered in a wildcat caliber developed and named by Bill as the 577 VSRE.

That stood for a .577 bullet used in a Very Short Range Express rifle.

Bill's 577 VSRE cartridge is based on a 577 Nitro Express case that is shortened to 2.500" with its rim rebated to .583" diameter, the same size diameter as a 460 Weatherby Magnum rim. Some 15 years later, upon the development of the 585 Nyati by Ross Seyfried, a variation of that same case, with a 2.787" case length and a .579" diameter rim, could be shortened by approximately 3/10 inches and used for the 577 VSRE cartridge without the laborious reworking of the head of a 577 Nitro Express case. Perhaps you could now call Bill's 577 VSRE, the 585 NYATI SHORT.


The whole purpose of Bill's 577 VSRE cartridge was to obtain the same ballistic performance of the 577 Nitro Express Double Rifle, except in a bolt action repeating rifle. That being 2050 fps with a 750g bullet.

The reason Bill built 2 rifles in the same 577 VSRE caliber was that the first rifle was a development rifle to work-up stock / barrel configuration. It was built on a P-14 Enfield action as a single shot. The brown stripe in the Laminated stock is a walnut spacer that was from various experimental dimensional changes that Bill tried during the rifles testing. The second rifle, the one actually intended for hunting, was built on a "G" series Winchester Model 70 push-feed action, as a repeating rifle. I've had a lot of fun with both of these rifles.

The 577 VSRE P-14 Enfield Single Shot. Modified Laminated stock - 12-1/2 pounds.


The 577 VSRE Winchester Mod 70 repeater. McMillan Stock - 12-1/4 pounds.


The Winchester was topped with a 4x24 Noske Scope #528 LER w/ Post in Weaver Rings & Bases.


What started this project was by an accidental discovery of a set of RCBS 577 T-REX dies on Ebay. The .577 Tyrannosaur or .577 T-Rex is a very large and extremely powerful rifle cartridge developed by A-Square in 1993 on request for professional guides in Zimbabwe who escort clients hunting dangerous game. The cartridge is designed for use in "stopping rifles" intended to stop the charge of dangerous game. The 577 contains a .585-inch diameter 750-grain Monolithic Solid Projectile which when fired moves at 2,460 ft/s producing 10,180 foot-pounds of force. This is perhaps the most powerful bolt action cartridge of all times.

While I was searching for a set of 500 Jeffery dies, I found the 577 T-REX dies. They were quickly purchased for less than 1/4th the current retail price.

My thinking was that that perhaps someday I'd find an original A-Square rifle in 577 T-REX caliber, and I'd already have the reloading dies. Well, with the dies now in hand, I set about searching for some brass, and found that AHR was offering the 577 T-REX brass at a very reasonable price. By week's end, I had the brass also.

After a month-long search for an original A-Square rifle in 577 T-Rex caliber, it occurred to me that I didn't need 2 rifles in 577 VSRE caliber. The P-14 single shot would be a good candidate for a make-over. Since the bore was the same, all that needed to be done was to re-chamber the rifle to the new cartridge, and modify the bolt face and extractor to fit. I decided to do it.


The first step in the project was to remove the barrel from the action. Fortunately, I have a Master Machinist / Gunsmith for a friend that had made a special barrel vise, and had a vast assortment of barrel and action bushings to go with it. He invited me to come over and use his tools.

The barrel was clamped in the vise with the appropriate barrel bushings.


Then the special split-bushing for the P-14 Enfield action was fitted to the action.


Next the action wrench was clamped over the bushing and tightened to the action.


Finally, a sharp rap with a lead hammer was all that was needed to spin the action loose from the barrel.


With a bushing selection like this, shown in the tool box, every type of action and barrel could be easily separated. There were even a few unfinished bushings in case a "special" needed to be made, as was the case for the custom barrel on this P-14 action.


With the action and barrel separated, it was now time to re-chamber the barrel. I had hoped to rent a chamber reamer for this "one-time" project, but I found no one had a 577 T-REX reamer to rent. After fruitless posts requesting to borrow or rent a reamer, or even to have someone do the re-chambering job for me, I was left with only one option; purchase a new reamer. But from who?

Searching the Gunsmithing Forums on several sites for chamber reamer sources, led me to Dave Manson, of Dave Manson Precision Reamers.

Dave Manson Precision Reamers
8200 Embury Road
Grand Blanc, MI 48439 USA
810-953-0732

Here is his Web Page address. Dave's Web Page contains a 32 page on-line catalog of not only reamers, but hundreds of precision gun related tools and gauges. Check it out.

https://mansonreamers.com/

I was absolutely amazed at the multitude of favorable comments that I found on various Gun related Internet Forums, complimenting Dave and his precision reamers. Comments like; ".. All of my reamers are from Dave Manson...", and "...Dave was very helpful, extremely knowledgeable, and responsive..." "...Reamers I have received are excellent and quickly made.." "..To sum it up, Manson is everything..."

It wasn't long before I was talking to Dave about purchasing a reamer. And yes, I have found all the above statements to be true. Dave Manson not only makes an excellent product, he offers personal service, and even offers an "expedited service" for AR Forum Members. And, he even has a rebate program.

Although standard delivery is 6 - 8 weeks, my 577 T-REX reamer arrived in a little over 3 weeks. It was professionally packaged in a slide-top "wooden" box. Wow! I haven't seen those since the 60's. I fully understand now why so many have given Dave so much praise.



Although I was lacking the large equipment for chambering, I have completed dozens of hand chambering projects over the years. Calibers as small as .14 up to as large as .700NE caliber. Here is the method I used. I mounted the barrel vertically in a vise over a catch pan.



I inserted an empty 577 VSRE case, into the existing chamber and measured the distance from the case head to the barrel end. This would be the same distance required for the 577 T-REX to head space correctly. Note: this measurement was only for an approximation as the actual final reaming is done by "feel" on an empty case to obtain exact head space.



To start the reaming, I plugged the bore with 2 squares of toilet paper about 1" beyond the pilot of the reamer, and then I filled it with oil. I carefully inserted the reamer and hand turned it a couple dozen times. I then removed it and cleaned it free of chips. I pushed the chip laden oil and toilet paper wad down through the barrel, and out the muzzle into the catch pan. I followed this with another clean wad, passing it through the barrel as well.



I then inserted an empty 577 T-REX factory case, and measured. I repeated this process by again plugging the barrel, inserting the reamer, and filling around it with oil. I reamed, cleaned and repeated this as many times as necessary until the chambering job was nearing my original measurement of the 577 VSRE case.





When I got close to the initial measurement. I screwed the action onto the barrel and tried to close the bolt on an empty 577 T-REX case. Note: the bolt was stripped bare so that neither the extractor, nor the firing pin assembly, would interfere with the "feel" of the bolt closure. As per plan, the bolt would NOT close. So, the reaming was repeated, but this time with only 2 or 3 turns of the reamer. And, again the action was screwed in place, and I tried to close the bolt on a Factory case. In this final "feel" for head space, I used a new case with each test to eliminate the possibility of a case shoulder being worked back from repeated testing. It took only 4 times to repeat this until I could close the bolt and ever-so-slightly "feel" the case in the new chamber. Perfect "minimum" head space was obtained.



Although this is a slow process, sometimes taking more than an hour, the results are excellent and worth the time. On this job, it took exactly 1 hour to re-cut the bolt face and re-shape the extractor for the new 577 T-REX case, and another hour to ream the chamber for the new case.








So, finally I have a 577 Tyrannosaur rifle, albeit NOT an A-Square Hannibal repeater. I left it a single shot, not wanting to deal with all the work to make it a repeater. And, since it is a single shot, I filled the mag box area with 1 pound of cerrosafe and added another 1/2 pound into the stock to bring the weight up to exactly 13 pounds, loaded. Nice thing about using Cerrosafe is; it weighs almost as much as lead, but has a very low mentling point of about 130 degrees, so it doesn't damage the wood when you melt it and pour it in. Also, its easy to heat it up and remove it later.

If the weather warms up a bit, I'll take my new Dinosaur Rifle it to the range for a test run, and post the results here.

That's one way to do it, even if the first-ever .577 VSRE shop mule has to bite the dust.
Good that the repeater version survives.
I never thought about Ross being a copycat of Bill.
Ross should have called his the .577 VSRE Long.

I have similarly rechambered a 20Ga 3" to 3.5" by hand, a more minor operation, but do appreciate the tips gleaned from the excellent write-up here.

I learned about using Cerrosafe to add weight to a rifle today.

Rip ...

the first thing I am happy about is learning that cerosafe makes a good stock weight ... though 130 melting point and texas summers inside the truck is a close thing

the second/third thing is that 1: there already is a 2.5" nyati (i nearly built a 2.55" "t-rex") and that there is something of a source for such, the VRE ...

Neal and I did the 550 express as the same mission as the VRE .. and WAY beat it ... 700 gr .550 can go way past 2050 -- and was a rebarrel+gunsmithing of a mauser

jeffe

Hello RIP

Hello jeffeoso

Thanks for the reply.

This has been a real fun project.

And here's my final "2-cents" worth. I just couldn't resist.

Have fun shooting it.

I never hunted with either of the rifles, since I learned early on that the recoil generated by the 750 grain bullet at 2050 fps. would exercise an inexorable push on me, which caused me to take two steps backward to maintain my balance.

I knew that there were situations in Africa where that would not be possible, so I stuck with my .505 SRE with a 570 grain bullet at 2150, which was easy for me to handle, despite its 8 3/4 pound weight. It proved totally adequate for elephant, rhino and buffalo.

buckstix,

I dig it!
Nice touches on each side of the buttstock.
How long is the LOP?
Can you use a slip-on recoil pad, or will you install a Pachmayr Triple-X Magnum (1.5" thick) recoil pad,
or a hydraulic shock absorber mechanism?

Whenever time travel becomes a reality, you might have to convert that single-shot to a magazine-fed repeater.

Like xausa, I know my limits, learned them from Mitch Carter, shooting his 577 T.rex in a 100-yard underground tunnel on Long Island, NY.

I am going to have to stick with .458, .475, and .510-caliber guns for dinosaur.
A rifleman has got to know his limitations.

Rip ...

Hello p dog shooter

Hello xausa

Hell RIP

Thanks for the reply.

LOP is 14-1/4" to the VTP. ( Very Thin Pad )

I actually prefer a hard thin pad instead of a soft 1" thick pad. It seems that the soft thick pad does little more than to give the rifle a 1" running start before it compresses and slams into your shoulder.

I have heard that one before.
Usually said by those who do not shoot the big bores much, and when they do, they have a 25-pound bag of lead shot between them and the VTP or steel buttplate.

Proper technique involves pulling the pad into your shoulder to pre-compress it before the shot.
No run at you then.
And any further compressive force in recoil is enough to get your shoulder going backward with the flow.
Not a bit of "run at you."

Rip ...

Hello RIP

Thanks for the reply.

I speak from experience having an assortment of big bore rifles from .338 up to .700 caliber, with metal, thin, hard, and soft, recoil pads. Its the soft ones that seem to hurt me the most, and the metal, thin, or hard ones that seem to hurt the least. If the latter 3 are held firm against your shoulder, the weight of the shoulder becomes part of the weight of the rifle during recoil and gives a firm, or very firm, "push" during recoil. The soft ones seem to "slam" you. That's the way my body sees it, others may vary.

buckstix,
We will have to agree to disagree on that one.
BTW, I do not think a PAST pad gives the rifle a run at me either.


(Photo by Mitch Carter)

Here are a couple of submaximal loads to try in your new toy:





Mitch Carter data here:

http://www.accuratereloading.com/577tyr.html

Keep your offhand thumb wrapped around the top of the barrel, and hold tight, and you will not end up looking like one of Saeed's Champions.
You have excellent sights on your rifle for practicing this grip.
No rear open/express sight on barrel, peep rear instead, very good.
Mitch Carter had a 6X Leupold on his rifle.
Rings and bases were soldered to the rifle,
which was a BBK-02, 26"-long Pac-Nor barrel, gunsmithing by good ol' Harry McGowen himself, IIRC.
I guess Harry wasn't making .585-caliber barrels when Mitch needed one.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
buckstix,
We will have to agree to disagree on that one.
Rip ...

Hello RIP

Thanks for the reply.

Yes ...

Any idea of the velocity with those loads?

I doubt I can group as good as those 2 targets. My old eyes with iron sites aren't what they used to be.

Those two loads I fired above:

750-grainer about 2300 fps
900-grainer about 2000 fps

I fired about 43 rounds of Mitch's ammo in two different 1-hour sessions, April and June 2001.
My brown hair turned white after that.

Mitch Carter shot a 100-yard, 3-shot group of 0.172", center-to-center, with the 650-grain Woodleigh (varmint bullet).
I wrote this one down for future reference, straight from the Mitch's mouth to my ear:

650-grain Woodleigh RNSP, WC bullet
193.0 grains H4831
26-inch barrel, chronographed: 2539 fps
3-shot, 100-yard accuracy = 0.172" = 0.165 MOA
About 9300 ft-lbs KE at muzzle.

That submaximal, accuracy load can be found here, see Saeed and Mitch Carter's load data here:
http://www.accuratereloading.com/577tyr.html

Saeed did all his shooting with the 750-grain bullet:
"... We could not approach the published velocities in the excellent A-SQUARE reloading manual, with their listed powders. As an example, they listed 177.5 grains of Reloader 19 for a velocity of 2473 fps. We used 178 grains of our lot of Reloader 19 and only managed to get 2283 fps. That is almost 200 fps less! Their data was apparently developed in a barrel of 26 inches, while ours measured only 23 inches. Still, this is no criticism of A-SQUARE, it just shows the differences you might get by using different rifles and different lots of powder. In the velocity department, we were able to increase the velocity to over 100 fps more than the maximum published by A-SQUARE, by using a powder they did not use. There was no sign of excessive pressure at all, in fact, we think that 2600 fps is quite feasible in this rifle without too much trouble – except recoil! We only stopped because we ran out of bullets!"

Has Saeed also run out of local Champions?
Not to worry, a visiting sucker is always dropping by
and begging for a sucker punch from the famous flying rifle.


Rip ...

Hello RIP

Thanks for the reply.

Those are some amazing velocities.

Lucky for me, my hair is already white.

Mitch's rifle weighed 14.3 lbs complete with scope and KDF muzzlebrake screwed onto the end of the 26" barrel.
This made the recoil tolerable for benchrest shooting, but the muzzlebrake does nothing to tame the torque.
Weight of rifle helps with that, but it was still surprising to me.
Mitch's rifle would twist to the right on firing.
First time I shot, it twisted out of my left hand on forearm and jumped off the rest to the right.
This required a quick re-grab in midair to right of front rest in "Champion" fashion.
Then I got a pointer from Mitch on wrapping thumb of left hand over the barrel.
No problem after that.
I was plenty comfortable with shooting maximum 500 A-Square loads by then, but the T-rex is a step up from that.
(Captain Obvious)

You must have noted Mitch's 750-grainer Naval Ordnance load with 198 grains of VVN 560: 2608 fps, 11,330 ft-lbs

Load some like that and start filming your own "Champions" series of videos.

Rip ...

Ya'll are the craziest older gents i have ever met.

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
Ya'll are the craziest older gents i have ever met.

Sir,
I resemble that remark!
However, I was a spring chicken the last time I fired a .577 Tyrannosaur. Too young and foolish to know better.
I am now wised up, and got nothing to prove with my sagging, wrinkling, age-spotted hide.
I got in all the chest beating I needed when I was 10 years old, pretending to be Tarzan, yodeling while I was at it too!
Don't want anymore chest thumping from a T-rex.

buckstix will have to speak for himself.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
Ya'll are the craziest older gents i have ever met.

I take offense to that remark - 66 isn't old!

quote:

Originally posted by Colin Masters:
Ya'll are the craziest older gents i have ever met.

we've survived the winnowing process -- and all that entails

Hello All,

I got a chance to get out to the range today. Nice, but cold.

Here's the results of my starting load. Lots of room for increased velocity, but a nice pleasant starting load. Only 5,550 ft/lbs muzzle energy, but a fun load with only 80 ft/lbs recoil.

The black circle is 6" in diameter to the outside. The inner white is 3-3/8" in diameter. The 3-shot group is 1-3/8" high at 50 yards, which puts it dead-on at 125 yards, and 2" low at 150 yards.

This is about as good as I can do with iron sites. Even surprised me.

Iron sights at 50yds? That's a great group!

quote:

Originally posted by PD999:
Iron sights at 50yds? That's a great group!

Ditto,
The long sight radius and peep rear sight is not detrimental to accuracy.
And buckstix's eyes are not that old yet.
And mine are a few years younger than his.

Rip ...

Hello PD999

Hello RIP

Thanks for the reply.

Although the barrel is only 22" long, the sight radius is 26-1/2". The peep sight and the square front post, with a gold inlay, really help in aiming.

Great sight setup. The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding is buckstix's shooting.

Rip ...

Nice write up! Interesting cartridge. Just as a Reminder, the .600OK drives a 750 gr bullet over 2750fps and a 900 gr bullet to 2450 fps. It does torque a bit in your hands though!

The .600 OK is impressive on paper, but IMHO anything over 2150 fps. is wasted velocity, since it mainly contributes to a flatter trajectory, which is an academic issue, since dangerous game is shot at close quarters. That kind of performance results in a rifle that is either too heavy to carry comfortably or one which kicks so hard that a quick second shot is an impossibility.

My .505 SRE, and its 2150 fps. with a 570 grain bullet is quite enough for me, thank you.

I once shot an elephant from a perch on top of a termite mound, which, not having a ladder handy, I had climbed up to get a better angle for a brain shot. I fired two quick shots, the first in the brain and the second in the heart. I didn't lose my balance.

Another time, using the same rifle, I fired four quick shots into a running buffalo at a range of about 50 yards. All of the bullets went where aimed, at the point of the shoulder. Three of the entrance holes could have been covered with a playing card.

I could not have performed either feat with my .577 VSRE, let alone the .600 OK>

Hello xausa,

Thanks for the reply.

I must agree that shooting this rifle when it was in original 577 VSRE caliber, made me take 1 to 2 short steps backwards during recoil.

Now that its in 577 Tyrannosaur caliber, I must be take care to not get my feet tangled on the rearward trek, lest I end up on my butt.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
Hello xausa,

Thanks for the reply.

I must agree that shooting this rifle when it was in original 577 VSRE caliber, made me take 1 to 2 short steps backwards during recoil.

Now that its in 577 Tyrannosaur caliber, I must be take care to not get my feet tangled on the rearward trek, lest I end up on my butt.

I know all about the falling on the butt business. I first experienced it when my Krieghoff BDB (over and under double rifle) in caliber .458 WM doubled on me. It was a genuine double, not a fan fire, since the two bullet holes were only a fraction of an inch apart on the target. After a thorough cleaning of the action by my gunsmith friend, Harry Creighton, it never did it again. That was over 40 years ago.

Incidentally, you're right, 66 isn't old. I just celebrated my 79th birthday yesterday.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:
I know all about the falling on the butt business. I first experienced it when my Krieghoff BDB (over and under double rifle) in caliber .458 WM doubled on me. It was a genuine double, not a fan fire, since the two bullet holes were only a fraction of an inch apart on the target. After a thorough cleaning of the action by my gunsmith friend, Harry Creighton, it never did it again. That was over 40 years ago.

Incidentally, you're right, 66 isn't old. I just celebrated my 79th birthday yesterday.

Hello xausa.

Thanks for the reply.

I can vividly remember the very "first shot" I ever took with a firearm. I was 14 years old, and had acquired a 20ga bolt action Mossberg shotgun by selling personalized Christmas cards. When the shotgun arrived, I went with some older boys to shoot red wing blackbirds. We were on a railroad right-of-way that ran through a cat-tail marsh. When a bird flew toward me, and was nearly overhead, I took aim and pulled the trigger. I didn't realize that both my heals were up against the track. Down I went, on my butt, smacking my head on the opposite rail, all the while, firming grasping my new shotgun against my chest, to keep from damaging it.

All the other boys laughed, and laughed. I did hit the blackbird, and several others that day, but I think all that laughing at me, and that smack on the head caused some permanent damage.

I think maybe that's the reason I've been trying to get even all these years with the big-bore cannons I shoot.

buckstix,
Your "Big Bang Theory of Big Bore Addiction" is quite interesting.
I may be suffering from the same condition.
My story:

One summer eve at the farm near Woodbury, KY, down on the Green River, near where Paradise lay ...

I was 8 years old and I was throwing rocks in the air so my Pop and his older brother, Uncle Ralph, could shoot the bats that dove at my rocks:
Batting Practice with a Ted Williams Shotgun

We were having lots of fun, but I wanted more.
I pestered Pop until he let me shoot his 12 gauge.
At the shot the gun and I both blasted off backwards, the shotgun on a little higher trajectory than me.
Pop caught us both.
I was humiliated only in my own eyes, not physically hurt at all.
That shut me up about wanting to shoot the 12 Gauge.
Back to "batting practice" for Pop and Uncle Ralph, my rock-throwing arm still in fine shape.
I was a toy gun nut before that, and a real gun nut after that, eating my spinach for the days to come when recoil would not send me and the gun both flying.

Rip ...

Xausa- I’m simply going to completely disagree with you! First if you can’t recover from recoil quickly enough your not holding the gun properly or it’s poorly designed in the first place. If your feet ever move on recoil again your not holding the gun properly! More velocity in my experience translates into more energy into the animal! They run off a shorter distance then fall over quicker!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Xausa- I’m simply going to completely disagree with you! First if you can’t recover from recoil quickly enough your not holding the gun properly or it’s poorly designed in the first place. If your feet ever move on recoil again your not holding the gun properly! More velocity in my experience translates into more energy into the animal! They run off a shorter distance then fall over quicker!

True and wise words!

It is possible to shoot a properly designed 100+ ft.-lb. recoiling rifle rapidly and accurately. I and many others have done it.

And nice report buckstix. I enjoyed reading it very much. If I were ever to go this route - which is possible, but not terribly likely at this stage of the game - I would go straight to Rob's .600 Overkill, after passing "Go" and collecting $200 for aspirin, acetaminaphen and ibuprofen.

MR,
Ibuprofen might lower your sperm count.
Take naproxen (Aleve) along with the acetaminophen.
That combination is more effective for me anyway.
But people are different.
My limit in guns for dinosaur is .510 in caliber.
So many more bullets, so much less pain.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Xausa- I’m simply going to completely disagree with you! First if you can’t recover from recoil quickly enough your not holding the gun properly or it’s poorly designed in the first place. If your feet ever move on recoil again your not holding the gun properly! More velocity in my experience translates into more energy into the animal! They run off a shorter distance then fall over quicker!

Let me make sure that I understand what you're saying. You're telling me that after 60 years of shooting high power rifles, including 50 years of experimenting with dangerous game rifles, that I don't know what I'm talking about.

For your information, none of the four bull elephants I have taken moved out of their tracks after the first shot.

Only one of the six stationary Cape buffalo I have taken required an extra shot. None made it more than 50 yards.

My .577 VSRE generates more than 125 ft. lbs. of recoil energy, and my doubling .458 WM DR generated more than 240 ft. lbs.

I can guarantee that either of these is sufficient to knock an average person off his feet, if he does not step backwards, unless of course, unbeknownst to me, the laws of physics have been repealed.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Xausa- I’m simply going to completely disagree with you! First if you can’t recover from recoil quickly enough your not holding the gun properly or it’s poorly designed in the first place. If your feet ever move on recoil again your not holding the gun properly! More velocity in my experience translates into more energy into the animal! They run off a shorter distance then fall over quicker!

Hello Robgunbuilder,

Thanks for the reply.

Let me start by saying, although I love shooting Big Bore rifles, I have never been to Africa, and will likely never get there.

However, I have documented over 8,000 rounds, from the 6 dozen Big Bore and Dangerous Game rifles that I own, in the following 39 calibers:

375 H&H (2) - 378 Wby Mag - 411 KDF - 416 Taylor - 416 Rigby (7) - 416 MRE - 416 Rem Mag - 416 Hoffman(2) - 404 Jeffery(4) - 10.75x68(2) - 11.15x60R - 45-70(3) - 500-450 - 458(5) - 450 Watts - 458 Lott - 450 Ackley Mag - 460 Wby Mag - 475 A&M - 470 NE - 500 BPE(3) - 500 NE - 577-500 BPE(2) - 505 Gibbs - 500 SRE - 500 Jeffery - 14x33 - 577 VSRE - 577 T-REX - 20-577 - 18-bore - 16-bore - 12-bore - 10-bore - 600 JDJ - 600 Express - 600 NE - 700 NE

My career has been based in R&D and I keep meticulous shooting records, which include recoil energy. I weigh 225 pounds and stand 5'10" tall. I'm of average physical condition and strength. I record at what "recoil level" my feet no longer remain comfortably planted, and when I have to take steps backward to keep my balance. I record 4 levels: "half-step" - "one step" - step-and-a-half" - and "two steps".

xausa is right on the money. With bullet weights at or around 600 grains and velocities approaching 2,000 fps, your feet will begin to wander, unless you make a conscious effort to keep them firmly planted. But, with heavier bullets above 600 grains and at higher velocities, no amount of effort will keep you from loosing your balance, unless you "step-back" to offset the recoil energy.

If I ever get to Africa, I want to use a "proven" caliber / bullet / velocity combination that doesn't require me to concentrate on my feet. I want to concentrate on the intended game I'm about to shoot.

Absolutely fascinating stuff and well over a hundred years knowledge of heavy calibers and related ballistics in that group.

Gents if ever you want to get around the campfire somewhere in Africa it would be my pleasure to split a Dinosaur safari for you. Sort of three for the price of one deal.

Anyway carry on.

quote:

Originally posted by buckstix:
... I want to use a "proven" caliber / bullet / velocity combination that doesn't require me to concentrate on my feet. I want to concentrate on the intended game I'm about to shoot.

About those feet:

Being only three years younger than buckstix, and exactly the same height and weight as he has stated for himself,
based on my own experience with gravitational pull and increasing personal mass over six decades,
I am guessing that he used to be about an inch taller and had a smaller boot size than he now wears.
He has filled the big boots exceedingly well in the richness of his contributions here.
It is well worth following his tracks through these forums.

And we continue to agree to disagree with his opinion on the uselessness of a recoil pad on a big bore rifle.

Rip ...

Xausa- just because you’ve shot guns for sixty years( So Have I) doesn’t mean you know how to shoot them properly! I can’t even count the number of shooters who tell me they know everything about shooting when it’s obvious they don’t! Again if your feet ever move on recoil or it knocks you off your feet your not holding it properly! Despite your experience, I seriously doubt you have anywhere near the amount of trigger time with Big bores of over 100ft-LB levels that I Do!BTW been to Africa 8 times, shot pretty much everything) Look, I’m not trying to insult you, but I totally disagree with what your saying and am just adding my experience to the discussion so don’t get your panties in an uproar!

I have to agree with Rob my feet don't move with my 550 Magnum 700gr @ 2,350 or with the 585 Nyati. But shooting technique is the key. Watch the videos in the link. Some guys move alot some hardly at all. Same rifle same load 550 Magnum 700gr at about 2,200 FPS.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/55...s/?ref=page_internal

Might have to click on the videos on the left menu.