I have no problem with the Ruger bolt action in the same or greater calibers.

Stock design is the culprit IMHO

Which of their stock designs are you talking about (The American or the European)?

I got the CZ 550 magnum and the safari classic.There is a bit of a drop in one.

haven't experienced that much lift.. i thought the 458 had "the recoil of a 300 win" Mr Ballerina (a male is a ballereno, btw)

The hogback has more butt drop and therefore move muzzle flip.

My 550FS 9.3X62 seems to lift a bit but that seems to translate into less straight back recoil.

It's a big problem in the bigger calibers.I think the long barrel is an issue.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's a big problem in the bigger calibers.I think the long barrel is an issue.

What about that "recoils like a 300 winmag" comment?

Cut the barrel off to 20" and see if it get better

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's a big problem in the bigger calibers.I think the long barrel is an issue.

What about that "recoils like a 300 winmag" comment?

Cut the barrel off to 20" and see if it get better

You can never get it right,jeffeoso.I said that my Ruget bolt action Lott recoils like a 300WM.My CZ 458wm and CZ lott have violent muzzle lift.I got it on the nose and forehead more than once.Sometimes I think it broke my nose.I want to figure out why the Ruger is a pleasure to shoot compared to the CZ.

Shootaway, in the famous words of Ronald Reagan, "There you go again." You've got to start getting your act together and doing some analysis. What does your Ruger weigh? What does your CZ weigh? If they both have the same weight and one of rifle's muzzle is hitting you in the forehead (your words) then the only thing left is stock configuration. So before we invent the new "Shootaway Muzzle Lift Scale" let's get some logical thinking into the act. I have a very low recoil CZ 550 Magnum in the puny .416 Rigby and with the MacMillan stock there is almost no muzzle lift, at least when I shoot it. I will add that a longer barrel with a little more forward balance tends to reduce muzzle lift, not increase it.

How long is the barrel? Both rifles weigh about the same.The ruger a little less.Wink,I am serious about what I am describing.

The factory CZ 550 barrelled action in .416 Rigby has a 25" barrel.

The CZ requires a different shooting helmet than the one you use for the Ruger...

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I read this and had to take my CZ 450 Dakota out to the range and shoot it again. Doesn't seem to lift much from the cellphone pictures my nephew took. It and the 375 and the 416 Rigby all lifted about 8-12 inches. By time I could get the bolt moving I was back on target.

This is all subjective IMHO.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I read this and had to take my CZ 450 Dakota out to the range and shoot it again. Doesn't seem to lift much from the cellphone pictures my nephew took. It and the 375 and the 416 Rigby all lifted about 8-12 inches. By time I could get the bolt moving I was back on target.

This is all subjective IMHO.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Perzacly....

quote:

Originally posted by Jim Manion:
The CZ requires a different shooting helmet than the one you use for the Ruger...

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...

I read this and had to take my CZ 450 Dakota out to the range and shoot it again. Doesn't seem to lift much from the cellphone pictures my nephew took. It and the 375 and the 416 Rigby all lifted about 8-12 inches. By time I could get the bolt moving I was back on target.

This is all subjective IMHO.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

Are you sure yours does not become airborne?

shootaway,

Are you shooting from a bench rest, or off-hand?

Are you pulling down slightly with your forward hand and back with your trigger hand?

George

I am shooting offhand and doing the same thing withe the CZ and Ruger.George,that's exactly what I am doing.I managed to tame it a bit today by getting used to it.But,there is clearly a big difference in the upthrust of the muzzle between both Ruger and CZ.I might be because of the overall weight distribution or balance of the barreled action within the stocks.It was sure fun shooting the 458wm again today.Got a little late and saw the muzzle blast light up the dark.When I really get good at shooting my big bores,I'll make a video with my new HD video cam and post-probably in the spring.I also spoke with the one and only master of master gunmakers on the phone today.I asked him to make the stock for the barreled action Ralph Martini will make.I hope this goes through because he is getting old.He makes the most beautiful rifles in the world IMO.I also hope it will be at a good price and does not have a muzzle lift issue.

Shootaway; take a hacksaw and lop the barrel off at 16.5 inches(is that legal in Canuckistan??) get a cheap tupperware stock and hollow out under the barrel channel to remove as much weight as possible, My 100 pound,5 foot 4 inch wife shoots 500 grainers out of this one and I've never heard her complain, nor does she wear a helmet. It's a cruel world out there, toughen up man!

Aren't you scared of getting that scope in the eye? Is that a Lott or win mag?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Aren't you scared of getting that scope in the eye? Is that a Lott or win mag?

Hell, ya got two eyes! It's the winnie

Maybe it's not the rifle coming up, it's your head going down noodle neck.

optical illusion from the scope waggin on just one ring?

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
haven't experienced that much lift.. i thought the 458 had "the recoil of a 300 win" Mr Ballerina (a male is a ballereno, btw)

Funny little piece of trivia, in Italian "ballerina" could mean the chick in a tutu or it could mean the naked chick on the pole collecting 5 euro notes.

Takes a whole new meaning when you say it can also be masculine.

shootaway,

I had you ignore for a troll but like a moth to a flame I can't resist reading your posts.

If you are for real, which I doubt and hope against, you REALLY need to heed the good folks here at AR on their advice on shooting big bores well. A helmet is not required or advised

An "airborne" rifle is bad juju.

IMO the CZ hogsback stock does rise in recoil more than a "classic" style (as in my RSM Rigby and Lott), but it isn't enough for the rifle to get airborne!!!

Shooting bigger rifles takes dedication and practice...as all arms do. The big bores just require a different mind set, a hard hold, and a desire to shoot a stiff recoiling rifle well. One MUST learn to shoot it well and proper. If you just put in range time getting the crap beat out of you with every shot with bad form and rifle set up you will never improve, and will probably get worse. Set up the rifle with a good LOP and scope eye relief, use good technique (search the forum) and if you want to shoot bigger rifles well it will come to you. Man, this is way more than what I thought I would post to a shootaway question

Learn to shoot your rifles well and all will be good. The helmet definitely has to go

John

Perhaps this thread belongs in the new forum "Special Needs Shooters"...

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's a big problem in the bigger calibers. I think the long barrel is an issue.

Shootaway, you consistently come up with the most silly "stuff."

I don't know what to say.

Jason

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's a big problem in the bigger calibers. I think the long barrel is an issue.

Shootaway, you consistently come up with the most silly "stuff."

I don't know what to say.

Jason

If my .50BMG only had a 18" barrel instead of a 36" barrel would it recoil less and have less muzzle flip?

Every time this subject comes up, which is a simple physics problem, it turns ugly like a rally of Obama voters.

Will,do you think the CZ's have too much muzzle lift in 458win or Lott calibers? What do you think is the problem?

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Every time this subject comes up, which is a simple physics problem, it turns ugly like a rally of Obama voters.

Will,

I believe you thoroughly addressed that subject in the "Combination Guns and Droolings" forum.

quote:

Originally posted by tom`:

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
It's a big problem in the bigger calibers. I think the long barrel is an issue.

Shootaway, you consistently come up with the most silly "stuff."

I don't know what to say.

Jason

If my .50BMG only had a 18" barrel instead of a 36" barrel would it recoil less and have less muzzle flip?

The longer barrel may cause greater torque when the gases push up on the crown.

quote:

The longer barrel may cause greater torque when the gases push up on the crown.

Yes, or it could be the angle of the crown. The flatter crown on the Ruger might allow the gasses to push more directly rearward? Also, because heat rises, the escaping gasses will tend to rise upon leaving the barrel. Maybe the more cone shaped crown of the CZ allows the rising gasses to push the muzzle upwards.

Or it could be the width of the lands. Have you compared the rifling in the Ruger to the rifling in the CZ?

Like Will, I also wonder about the CZ stock. CZ usually uses quartersawn wood. Ruger uses planesawn wood. Quartersawn wood tends to warp upward, applying pressure against the barrel. Do you think this upward pressure could be causing the barrel to flex as the bullet travels towards the muzzle, then as the bullet exits the barrel cracks like a whip, causing the violent muzzle lift?

I like Will's theory, but it has not been confirmed. The last time we spoke he was still waiting for a call back from NASA's chief engineer.


You might try mounting a camcorder to the action to try to record the motion of the barrel as the rifle is fired. You will need to remove the scope first. That should not be too hard if you mounted as you did on your Ruger, using only the front ring.

Jason

Good Lord, please shelter and protect shootaway.

Two things- Make sure there is a good inch between your nose and thumb and move the damn scope forward if it hits you.

Or just keep shooting it, you'll build up a callous.

DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME -- THIS IS NOT SHOOTING ADVICE ... This is too stupid for words
SHootaway...

since muzzle rise is objectional to you, and you think it has to do with stock design and barrel length,,,,, have younever tried shooting it while holding it upside down? If YOUR concept ofstock design and barrel length have anything to do with it, it should go DOWN, right?

quote:

since muzzle rise is objectional to you, and you think it has to do with stock design and barrel length,,,,, have younever tried shooting it while holding it upside down? If YOUR concept ofstock design and barrel length have anything to do with it, it should go DOWN, right?

This sounds like a very good test. I might add that possibly laying the rifle on it's side, kinda like a brother in the hood firing his gat, and firing a few shots could prove useful, could very well work for lead on running game. Shootaway give it a try and post back with results.

This from www.catholic.org:

THE SIX SINS AGAINST THE HOLY SPIRIT

Presumption of God's mercy.
Despair.
Impugning the known truth.
Envy at another's spiritual good.
Obstinacy in sin.
Final impenitence.


I think we have a candidate for the grand slam. (I confess to inspiration and a well placed prayer from ForrestB).