In a bid to confirm that I can't afford a cartridge double rifle, I just want to confirm that the cheapest doubles are the Pedersoli Kodiak Mk. IVs in either 9.3X74 or .45-70 in the low $3,000s, then either the Merkel or Chapuis for close to $6000. Am I missing something?

Go to cdnn ... there's an O/U in 30-06 for $350

jeffe

Hola Jeffe:
Trouble with that OU is that it isn't a side-by-side and it ain't a big bore neither/ Plus it is as ugly as sin.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
Hola Jeffe:
Trouble with that OU is that it isn't a side-by-side and it ain't a big bore neither/ Plus it is as ugly as sin.

and i can disagree HOW?~?

CZ 589 o/u .458 double rifle. If you ever see or hear of one for sale. Snap it up AFAP. I hear only 200 were imported but I paid 2K for mine and have converted it to .458 Lott. I would not trade it for a 15K SxS now.-Rob

Bill
If the 9,3x74R will work for you I can highly recommend the Chapuis. I have had mine for 7 or 8 years. It is scoped and has taken game as far as 300 yards.
Do a search on some of my previous posts and then if you have any questions ask them.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
CZ 589 o/u .458 double rifle.

I paid 2K for mine and have converted it to .458 Lott. I would not trade it for a 15K SxS now.-Rob

???????????????????

ROD, I mean I understand the use of a $2000 workable 458 LOTT double rifle! However I simply can't wrap my head around the ""Would not trade it for a $15K S/S now!" statement!

Bill/Oregon, you are missing the fact that there is a lot of difference between a Pedersoli Kodiak 45-70, or 9.3X74R double and a Merkel, or Chapuis, and in a 9.3X74R, or larger either of those will cost you more, new, than $6000, especially the Chapuis! If you pick all three up and handle them, you will quickly see the diferential in price! The Merkel, and Chapuis will handle like a Britt rifle, and the Pedersoli will handle like a crow bar, in comparison. Rodthegunbuilder's CZ O/U is a far better choice than the pedersoli, even if they are as ugly as a railroad crosstie, and have their barrels twisted round the wrong way!

Bill/Oregon, I prefere the S/S configuration, but do own some O/Us. If you can live with only an O/U then you can find lots of double rifles for less than $6K. They have some things to reccomend them. They are easier to scope, if that is a consideration, they are easier to re-regulate if that becomes necessary. They have drawbacks as well. Most are single trigger, with the top barrel cocked by the recoil of the bottom barrel, They must be broken open much father than a S/S for loading, and they are less well suited for dangerous game, because of most of the drawbacks. If 9.3X74R is enough for you, these O/Us can be bought new in the $4000 range for rifles that are well made. The 9.3X74R is not the weakling some would have you believe. With proper loads/bullets, the 9.3 is a cartridge to deal with, and is far more versatile for North America than some of the larger chamberings, so you get to shoot it a lot more.

I have two Pedersolis,(S/S) and have had two others. They are strong little rifles, and chambered for the 9.3X74R would make a nice first double rifle for use here in the USA, and are legal for dangerous game in many countries. They are habitually muzzle heavy, and are hammer rifles, with extractors, but well made for the price. The 45-70 chamberings lend themselves to re-chambering to several Sharps chamberings, as well as the one I have chambered for 458RCBS. They have been re-chambered to 450NE 3 1/4", and 450NE No2, without problem.

Out of curiosity where could one find a Pedersoli double?

How long would one have to wait to get one of the Pedersoli

Beretta's Silver and Golden Sable range of u/o Double rifles are nice, in particular in 9.3x74R. As is the Kreghoff's.

here is a 9.3 x74 merkel 140-1 for $5400

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=41557191

If you are a patient man and keep your eyes open, I've seen older lower end 9.3 x74mm Merkels in the $2,750-3,000 range used. You have to be very quick to get them though as they don't last long at that price!

Here's a 45-70 Pedersoli for $2,500.00

Pedersoli 45-70

The major draw back I see with the Pedersoli is that they are a hammer gun. Although I like the traditional look they are not my choice to hunt with for dangeroius game. I sold my pedersoli for this very same reason.

Used English double hammer guns. I see R B Roddas hammer guns for about $6000 some in 450/400 NE some on 475 Ne.

These are cheaper than some BPE rifles now.

Urdubob

MacD37- If you don't believe me, just offer me one of your 15K doubles in exchange? Like you, I have owned a fair number of double rifles lets see, the total is now about 30 in my career. Price range ( 2K-45K) I own six right now. Of the 30 about 1/2 looked great but either would not regulate, doubled, were off face, had poor accuracy ( frequently) etc, etc. By the way some of the most expensive were the worst!.Two so far would shoot about the same regulated groups as the lowly CZ589. None of the others weigh 8.3 lbs. The only problem is the lowly CZ589 isn't pretty, shoots a rimless, belted cartridge, although it ejects flawlessly) and reloads are slightly slower than a SXS ( although I can now shoot 4 in less than 8 seconds). Most people who have shot it ( many on this board) would probably agree with me. I would not hesitate for a second to hunt Dangerous Game with this thing in fact due to the weight I am looking foreward to it.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
MacD37- If you don't believe me, just offer me one of your 15K doubles in exchange? Like you, I have owned a fair number of double rifles lets see, the total is now about 30 in my career. Price range ( 2K-45K) I own six right now. Of the 30 about 1/2 looked great but either would not regulate, doubled, were off face, had poor accuracy ( frequently) etc, etc. By the way some of the most expensive were the worst!.Two so far would shoot about the same regulated groups as the lowly CZ589. None of the others weigh 8.3 lbs. The only problem is the lowly CZ589 isn't pretty, shoots a rimless, belted cartridge, although it ejects flawlessly) and reloads are slightly slower than a SXS ( although I can now shoot 4 in less than 8 seconds). Most people who have shot it ( many on this board) would probably agree with me. I would not hesitate for a second to hunt Dangerous Game with this thing in fact due to the weight I am looking foreward to it.-Rob

ROD I saw Hog Killer shooting your rifle in that film clip, at the BUBBA's shoot! He did a fair job of a quick re-load. He did quite well, and could have improved that time by haveing the second two in the fingers of his left hand, and loading with the left hand rather than from the belt, and with the trigger hand.

I've owned a couple of the CZ O/Us over the years, when they were imported as BRNOs. They are sleepers for sure, and as strong as a bank vault. What holds the price down is the "LOOKS", and like you,I can live with that.

The 458LOTT will work fine for a long time in your O/U, IMO! It simply is not the setup I would choose to bet my life on. That is a matter of personal choice, however, and not binding on anyone else.

Even if it were pretty I wouldn't trade a $5000 S/S for it,much less a $15K S/S, and that also is a personal choice.

I like nice O/Us in small chamberings, and in very light rifles, for hunting here, and in Canada. They make perfect pickup guns for the mountains, and Sonoran Deasert South west, especially if scoped. Like I told Bill/Oregon, if he can live with an O/U double,and he wants to use it for Buffalo, then one like yours is the way to go. It can be bought for thousands less than a good S/S, and is strong. There aren't many O/U doubles I'd attempt to chamber for 458LOTT, and your CZ is about the only one. Even then, I'd try to get it to shoot to regulation with a load equaling a 450NE 3 1/4" with a 480 gr Woodliegh, or North Fork cup point!

In the final analysis, any decent double in a good chambering is far superior to a bolt rifle in a tight spot, where two is likely all you will get. The S/S shows it's superiority,over the O/U, when the third, and fourth is needed. Other than that, all else being equal, there is little difference.

MacD37- I completely agree with your post. I really like the CZ589 and will probably pimp it up a bit with a much nicer stock once I find some more decent wood. Folks here aught to try and get a group buy going with CZ for these things rather than the mythical Spartan 45-70's. CZ apparantly believes money talks and apparantly will listen to its customers.
The thing that flat amazes me is it's accuracy. I can easily shoot two inch 6 shot groups with it at 50 yrds offhand. i've never shot it off a rest so I don't know it's absolute accuracy, but imagine 1 inch at that range is not out of the question. Moreover, while it's a 458 Lott and weighs only 8.3 lbs, everyone who has shot it with 2250fps/500 gr loads has commented on how well it handles the recoil. As I have said, the only other two doubles I have ever owned which could match that level of accuracy from both barrels were a Jeffery 450#2 and a Chapuis 9.3X74. Nothing else ever came close, with some that would not hit paper at 50 yrds. My plan is to toss this thing in a compact Cabellas rifle case along with a Sauer 12X12X30-06 scoped drilling and hunt D in Botswanna again real soon. This makes a very stealthy travelling arsenal that if lost or stolen maybe is intrinsically worth about 6K and doesn't scream expensive rifles-steal me all over Jo-Burg.-Rob

Mac, I would have had a much faster reload with a SxS than I got with Rob's O/U. I reloaded with my left hand and from the belt, as I always do when shooting a break open. As up to that time, they were 10ga, 12ga, 16ga. Kind of hard to keep them between your fingers. I am looking forward to SxS rifles, even with hammers. As I have shot quite a few shotguns set up that way, and against the clock.

Robs O/U did surprise me with how well it handeled at that weight and being a 458 Lott. That was my first double rifle experiance. If the Spartans com,e in I will get one for hogs and to practice handling/shooting/reloadinig a double rifle. If they do not come in, I guess I will have to get me a Kodiak and run with it. As I do not see any problems with external hammers.

Looking forward to see all of the DRSS guys at the DSC. Stop by my booth, #1132.

Hog Killer

Bill
Are you planning a trip to Africa? How many Buff or Elephants will you shoot?
The 9,3x74R [scoped] is a PERFECT calibre for all game including browm bear or lion.
Most people consider it light but adequate for buff and brain shots on elephants. I feel the same about the 375 H&H and the 375 is probably used by more hunters than any other calibre. I would rather have my Chapuis double than ANY 375.
[I have 2 375's, both bolt rifles I just prefer the double]. I have around 3000 rounds through my Chapuis and it is as tight as the day I bought it. It will be going to Zim on my 31 day hunt in March 2006.
My brother had a Pederosoli in 45/70 and I have handled their 9,3x74R. For the money they are good rifles. I have shot another 45/70 Pederosoli, both of them shot very good.
However, in the LONG RUN I think the Chapuis scoped, [their Quick Detach mounts go back to zero 100%] in 9,3x74R is the better choice. In my opinion it is one of the best HUNTING rifles on the PLANET. I HAVE USED MINE QUITE A BIT, AND IT IS THAT GOOD.
They weigh 7.5 lbs [without scope] and handle like a .410 shotgun. I have 2 scopes in QD mounts for mine, a Leupold 2.5-8 with the heavy duplex and a 1.5-6x42 Swarovski with the illuminated circle dot reticle.
AS I have said before it is my favorite hunting rifle under 40 cal.
Even if, later, you really get the double DISEASE bad and have to have a big bore double, you will never regret buying and using a Chapuis in 9,3x74R.
If you get a big bore double first, you will probably still want a medium bore double.
Just ask the members of the DRSS.

Thad Scott has a Watson 450/400 3 1/4 with shortened barrels (21.5") for $4500. If you want an English double, that seems like a deal!