I like the 22 inch bbl. I think that should be the industry default with 20 to 24 as options. Not that Winchester cares what I think (or they would be offering the Lott), but 22 was the barrel length on the M70 in 458 back when I first saw one, which was back in the bad old push feed days.

I do miss the cross bolts. Which just go to show you cannot please everyone no matter what you do.

Fourbore

I agree with you, of course. And as you know my own 458 B&M has 18 inch barrels--equal to 458 Winchester with a 24 inch, very very handy, and fast!

No need for cross bolts on a Accurate Innovations stock, has something far better than that, and much stronger.




Michael

quote:

No need for cross bolts on a Accurate Innovations stock, has something far better than that, and much stronger.

Nice. Hmmm. You would think we would see more of that.

That aluminum chassis absorbs all recoil and honestly can put it on about any wood. I have a 500 MDM--notorious for busting common stocks, had AI do a claro, they did not know I was going to put it on a 500 MDM--I have well over 600 + rounds through it now, never a problem. Wood on a big bore, nothing but AI stocks for me.

Michael

Michael, that is a good-looking rifle. Something about it struck me as odd, until you discussed the (lack of) crossbolts. The system you have in that stock looks great. Is that an aftermarket bedding block that is individually bedded to the stock, or is it sold as an assembled unit? I've never seen that type of stock up here in Canuckistan.

I once owned a Ruger RSM in .414Rigby, which I enjoyed very much until the stock split just before I finalized the papers for the rifles I would be taking to Africa. After years of problem-free use, the tang began to split at the worst imaginable time.

I must admit that the whole episode put a very bad taste in my mouth, and I'm hoping that the dual recoil lugs on the model 70 will serve me better. My first impressions of it are good. I like the matte finish, it has a good recoil pad and a very shootable trigger, and the wood is straight-grained but not unattractive. It seems to fit me quite well, and the comb works well for me with the open sights. I may strip and refinish the stock after I've gotten to know the gun a bit better.

I plan on using a scope for most of my home-grown uses for the gun, but the sights seem very serviceable as well. I am flirting with the notion of getting a ghost-ring aperture sight for eventual use on my hoped-for elephant. I haven't read too much about aperture sights for DG. Any comments on the idea?

John

jwm

Thanks. The aluminum chassis you see in the stock is standard for all of Accurate Innovations stocks. They use that in all the stocks. It's excellent, and on some of my heavy recoiling rifles, never an issue, no more broken stocks, nothing. Recoil is distributed over the entire area and the chassis is embedded into the stock with it's own recoil lugs. It just does not get any better, and makes cross bolts look rather silly. In addition to the chassis the action sits in, there is a steel pin that is in the grip to strengthen it as well.

I think the duel recoil lugs in the new Winchesters will be very good and problem free. At least a good step towards solving issues.

I have some rifles set ups with ghost ring sights, and they are EXCELLENT for iron sights. These days however my iron sight shooting is terrible, I just can't see good enough past 25 yds to use irons anymore. I have always used a scope however, and am very practiced with their use.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
A Winchester Model 70 Safari Express in .458 Win. Mag. was reviewed in this month's American Rifleman.

This is one of the new rifles manufactured at the FN factory in Columbia, SC.

I don't like the new trigger - it's modular and non-adjustable. And the wood on the test rifle was as plain as brown paint.

The rifle was reliable and accurate. Three different factory loads averaged 1.55" for 75 consecutive 5-shot groups at a range of 100 yards.

I found it interesting, however, that of the three factory loads tested, one did not even make it to 2,000 fps, and the other two barely exceeded that velocity.

All from a 24" barrel.

The average velocities were:

Federal Cape-Shok 500 grain Barnes TSX - 2,017 fps.
Winchester Super-X 510 grain SP - 1,986 fps.
Winchester Supreme Safari 500 grain Nosler Partition - 2,005 fps.

I much prefer the Lott.

Winchester is missing the boat by not chambering it.

Not too bright, in my book.

Mike:

I used to own a .458 Win Mag. I would guess that I sold it about five years ago. I never had an trouble getting 2100-2150 fps with my own loads. Oz is right. If you hand load, getting 2100 fps is no problem with the Win Mag with modern powders. That being said, I switched to the .450 Dakota. The Dakota gives you a bunch more case capacity and is better suited to loading homogenous bullets. I shoot 450 grain TSX bullets in the Dakota at 2400 fps. I could load it hotter but there is just no point.

What are your honest thoughts on this for big game?
Mauser K98 style as imported by Remington Arms. Awesome safari ready rifle in the .458 Winchester Mag chambering.

It comes with 26" barrels.

My knowledge on big bores and fps is admittedly weak so any advise would be appreciated.

This would not be my choise of words regarding the R98:

quote:

awesome safari ready gun

They can be a called a "great bargain gun" or "good to mess around gun", or "good project material gun". IMHO, that quoted phrase would apply much better to the Winchester M70. I'd gamble on the M70 of all the reasonable price (under 2k) 458's currently available as most reliable. If you want to save a few bucks and split the difference in cost, than I'd risk the CZ550 in Lott over the R98.

The R98 looked and felt rough. And if that bbl is really 26" it would be too long for my taste on a hunting rifle. Again, good for a fun shooter, not my vision of a safari ready gun. The CZ at 25" bbl, ain't much better. I got a CZ for a fun gun, so 25" dont bother me.

For serious hunting, I'd make some changes with my CZ and pass on the R98. Or look at Winchester if it was offered in the Lott. If you want to settle for a WinMag then the M70 gets my vote.

quote:

Originally posted by lde:
What are your honest thoughts on this for big game?
Mauser K98 style as imported by Remington Arms. Awesome safari ready rifle in the .458 Winchester Mag chambering.

It comes with 26" barrels.

My knowledge on big bores and fps is admittedly weak so any advise would be appreciated.

I would agree that the 798s are not safari ready but neither are any other off the shelf production rifles, at least none that I've seen or owned. That said, there's nothing wrong with the Rem 798s at all, I have one in green laminate that I had Mark Penrod re-chamber to .375 Wby from .375 H&H and also had him do a trigger job on, total cost for the work was around $125, IIRC. The action was a little rough at first so I put some abrasive bore paste on the raceways and worked the bolt a few hundred times and it smoothed right up, it is now as slick as any rifle I own now. The rifle feeds perfectly, has good polish and blue, and is very accurate. It is a solid rifle and I wouldn't hesitate to take it anywhere and hunt anything with it. I have owned big bore Winchesters and CZs and currently have a CZ .458 Lott and compared to a Winchester the 798 is a bit rough but so is a CZ, in my opinion. However, with minimal effort both the CZ and the 798 can be smoothed up and tweaked to make fine DG rifles and the 798 can be a real bargain at the prices new ones have been going for since Rem discontinued importation.

I suspect this is a bit of thread drift we are getting into...

To the best of my knowledge a 798 is a Zastava, or a Charles Daly, or a Mark-X or whatever it's called or been called where you live.

Not many 98's being made out there right now and at the price and from what I've seen, rough, but serviceable. Probably stronger than some of the older stuff and the Zastava has a side mounted safety.

I purchased a magnum Zastava action thruogh a well known and highly respected custom riflesmith here in SA to build a 458 Lott. I haven't gone ahead yet, but he didn't baulk at the idea and he could have suggested a VZ24 instead.

My comments apply only to the action as I haven't seen or handled the complete 798 rifles. That said, I'm more of a Winchester fan... but I dont' see why I wouldn't prefer a 798 as the basis for a DG rifle over some of the other pushfeed designs, but let's not open that one.

quote:

Originally posted by lde:
What are your honest thoughts on this for big game?
Mauser K98 style as imported by Remington Arms. Awesome safari ready rifle in the .458 Winchester Mag chambering.

It comes with 26" barrels.

My knowledge on big bores and fps is admittedly weak so any advise would be appreciated.

I have a Whitworth .458 and a Mark X .375 and ended up buying an AHR improved CZ 375. My experience is that not all of the Zastava-actioned rifles feed and eject as well as they should and barrel tolerances (rifling depth) can vary. Then there is stock reinforcement, replacing the safety (if desired), etc.

Now many, many people here have indicated that they are happy with their Whitworths. After one trip to Zim with mine it still needs some work. But then so does my M70 416 RM.

I guess my experience is that not many factory rifles are safari-ready. Yo may get lucky and get one, and you may not. Be prepared to have someone competent set them right, and put them through their paces. For some reason for me, the flaws usually come out only in Africa...