I recently purchased a quality barrel for a 10.75 project. The barrel will, I think, finish out only at 21" max. I think this is too short for a 404 Jeffery and I have several anyway. I also have a 10.75x68 Mauser in a Hoffman I bought from Ray a year ago that is quite nice. Do you think a 21" barrel is sufficient for a 404 Dakota?? Without getting into wildcats, are there any other viable options? I have a fine Orberndorf Mauser action and Blackburn bottom metal specific for the short Dakota rounds and this barrel. Do you see this as a natural??

Leonard,
I have this thing for long barrels! I really do like my 404 rifle with a 26" barrel.

Rusty, good to hear from you. I like long barrels also but not for dangerous game unless that is the only best option. I have a short length of pull and long barrels feel akward in my hands. In the past, in the Mehenge, I tracked a buff with mt 404 Jeffery but it was not as handy as My 416 Taylor with 22" tube. I know it doesn't sound right but it feels better shorter in dense brush and tall grass. With this project, I am limited to a barrel length of about 21.5" if I am lucky an I am sure that a big case is out. I am looking at making the 404 Dakota as it can be made up on a standard Mauser action without opening it much front and back and if the OAL is 3.32", that a 21" tube shoul work??? What do you think? ?Waste of time and money?? Or what? No news on my Searcy double yet, It feels like a lifetime. I started to buy up a bunch of Horneber brass in 375 FL and 450-400, 3". Do you think I should wait for Hornady to make a run? Do you think Hornady brass has a chance of being as good as the Hornaber stuff?

I don't see this one as a huge issue!! if you have the 10.75x68 reamer, do that.. looking at quickload, you'll loose ~70fps, 21 vs 24", and can still get to 2160 with 400gr bullets (yes, that's 55k, not 48k) or match the 450/400#2

and can still match factory 404 jeffe loads, if you go that way...

or, tell yeah what, you know I am a buddy... so that short barrel seems to be a problem for you, let me help you out and you can get a longer barrel!!

actually, i would love to make up a 21" "african carbine" in 10.75x68

jeffe

Jeffeosso, That is where I was headed anyway, I think that a 21" in either 10.75x68 or the 404 Dakota would be great. My Hoffman is so nice but I hate to alter it in any way as it has not been drilled or tapped. I think a rifle weighing in at 7.5-8 lbs would become your "handy rifle" on any dangerous hunt. I have not done much work on the load development as I am not good with Iron sights and accuracy issues are always my fault until proven otherwise, therefore, scope sights are essential. I have a friend in Germany noe, and I think I will see if he can get me some RWS brass for the '68 while he is there. What have you done with load development on your 1.75x68??

I have been able to get 2345 f/s with the northfork 340gr. and 2200 for the 380 CPS. I have some x bullets left over from when Barnes made a early run. They seem wonderfully accurate and again not a lot of pressure. All loads print less than 2" at 50 yards.

How about a light, handy Mannlicher stock 10.75x68? Longish front ramp with a one standing, one folding rear sight Talley scope mounts. I'd bet a rifle this short and handy would be the bee's knees in the think stuff.

Good idea Tex21. I am also in posession of a Brno Model 21 I think. One that does not have the square bridges. It is a small ring mauser, commercial with a Spoon bolt handle. I think if you couple it with a good piece of Turkish walnut and a regular magazine box that it would hold 4 down and one up and be absolutely as light in configuration as is possible. Would a regular large ring Orberndorf Mauser be preferred over the small ring Brno option? I kind of like the small ring option with the barrel shank the same diameter as the front receiver ring and have the front of the scope mount on the barrel??

I prefer 24 inch barrels, not sure why, I built my 404 with a 24 inch barrel. As much as it cost to build any rifle, the cost of another barrel is incremental. I'd buy the barrel you want at whatever lenght you want and move on with your project.

lb,
Gee whiz, you are all set up for a .404 Dakota with the parts you have. You already have a fantastic 10.75x68mm Mauser.

Build the .404 Dakota, load it to whomp light or heavy.

I have a 21.5" barreled .375/.338 WinMag FN Mauser. It is fine and dandy, but 23" is my usual minimum.

A .404 Dakota with 21.5" barrel and 8.0# bare weight sounds sweet to me.

YES! You said it. A "natural" it is.

Don't whimp out over another 10.75x68.

Leonard,
If you are really this conflicted over the obvious, it is probably best that you just unload that barrel and Blackburn box designed for the .404 Dakota. I'll be in Wichita, KS next weekend and could drop by OK with a check. How about next Saturday at the range to watch you chronograph that 500 Jeffery? I would love to do the shooting if your shoulder is still sore. Seriously.

It almost seems like a sin to me to put a big magnum round on a "fine oberndorf action". Find another action for the .404 and use the Oberndorf for a classic 7 x 57, which you probably already have a few of as well.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Leonard,
If you are really this conflicted over the obvious, it is probably best that you just unload that barrel and Blackburn box designed for the .404 Dakota. I'll be in Wichita, KS next weekend and could drop by OK with a check. How about next Saturday at the range to watch you chronograph that 500 Jeffery? I would love to do the shooting if your shoulder is still sore. Seriously.

RIP, If you are serious, then I think I am off next weekend. We can go to the range and shoot the cannon a few times. If you want, I can load up some staggerred loadings so we can really give it a serious work out. Let me know.

If I make it home on sat I can go early sunday morring! ( would need to leave arond 9) I'm still stuck op here in SD but at least we got a break from the HEAT. It has be 109-107 but got down to 78 today

Lb you have done a very bad thing all I been thinking about is the dang 500 and how I could build one!!!!!!!!!!!

Let me know when you all go.

Prddator, I will shoot Sunday morning. Do you want some Jeffery to shoot?

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
Prddator, I will shoot Sunday morning. Do you want some Jeffery to shoot?

lb404,
Sundays sounds great.
Tell me a time and an address/directions (PM or email) if I am still invited. PM sent to you. Thanks.

DO I want some Jeffery to shoot! now thats just crazy talk Hell ya
Rip if Lb did not give you directions I will.
I see you travel for a living to?

PRDATOR,
Been a rollin' stone all my life. I'll send you a PM too.

lb404,
Are you still on for Sunday? What time? Have you reaffirmed the "natural" decision to build a .404 Dakota with those parts? There is a gun show in Wichita this weekend ...

Is "next Sunday" the one coming up or the one after that?

Sorry about the delay in response it has been tough 4 days in surgery. Lots of sick folks. I was referring to this comming Sunday. I would like to be on the range by 8 am and I usually stay untill it is too hot to have fun or run out of ammo. I will bring most of my big stuff to play with. I need to load about 30 rounds of 500 Jeffery. No big deal. Just let me know if you got the directions. Where will you be comming from?

wlb404
First let me state I like short bbled rifles.[Long bbled rifles too, my 450 No2 had a 28" bbl and is perfect].

So where would you be using this short bbled rifle? If in Africa I would go with a 404 or a 416 Rem Mag.

If in North America I would go with the Mauser ctg. A 350 [347 the traditional loading] grain premium bullet at the Mauser velocities is a great choice.

lb404,
Got directions from PRDATOR. Coming from Wichita. Got your PM and replied. Don't work too hard.

Ok guys Im working on a similar 404j project and want to use a short barrel (20-22")

what can I expect in terms of velocity using north fork 380s?

With a 24" tube I can get up to 2600 f/s. with North fork 380's I think with the 20-22" tube you might be limited to 2400+ on a top load. I always load my 404 to 2350 f/s and never look back.

lb404,
WRT 21" tube - My vote is with jeffe - for another 10.75x68. I've shot that Hoffman of yours when my friend Paul owned it and it was quite pleasant to shoot. Would make a dandy elk rifle in these parts - if one can get to the remaining ones before the wolves do!

I plan to build a 10.75x68 with a nice '09 Argentine action I'm building up here in the near future. A standard '09 magazine box works fine for that round just like the Hoffman used.
Jeff P

quote:

Originally posted by lb404:
With a 24" tube I can get up to 2600 f/s. with North fork 380's I think with the 20-22" tube you might be limited to 2400+ on a top load. I always load my 404 to 2350 f/s and never look back.

I agree that 2600 fps is a .404 Jeffery max load with the .423/380gr North Fork SP, FP, or CP in a a 24" barrel with THE RIGHT ACTION: a Magnum Mauser (Prechtl, GMA, Brevex), M70, CZ 550 Magnum, Dakota 76 African, etc.

2350 fps is the prudent maximum for an opened up standard Mauser 98 with 24" tube.

I like 2525 fps for comfort in the stronger actioned rifle.

A 21" tube with a strong action ought to be able to max out around 2525 fps, but I would back that off to 2450 fps for peace of mind.

If it is an opened up standard Mauser 98 with 21" tube in .404 Jeffery: 2275 fps for piece of mind. That is still a better killer than the old traditional 400 grainer at 2125 fps, circa 1905.

If you hunt ANY game in North America with a 10.75x68, with a 350 to 400, gr bullet at @2200fps or so, the one thing you MUST have is a sharp knife.

The 10.75x68mm Mauser has the tiniest and most indistinct shoulder to headspace on of any other Cartridge Of The World of Factory Loads.

Ho hum.

I don't think that the 10.75x68 has a small shoulder, I know the 400 Whelan has a very small step off for a shoulder. The mauser round has a lot more. I think that the main reason to do the Mauser 10.75 is because there will be less machineing to do on the action to make it feed.

Name a tinier factory shoulder, or don't, 'cause you can't.