hey fellas, im not new to guns, but i certainly am to the big bore scene. anyhow i have got some factory 416 weatherby brass that i cant seem to sell so i thought id just build me up a rifle. but would a custom built 416 weatherby really be the best one to build up? not that thats really a huge deal but if its just the bottom of the barrel for 416's then i dont want to build one. so what would be the best bolt action to start with? i had thought about a mauser action but id really like to go with somethin that would help the sale value incase i cant take the recoil. thanks in advance for all of yer thoughts and suggestions.

Never build a rifle with resale value in mind.

Build it because you want it.

The .416Wby is a rompin', stompin', fire-belching dragon-killer. It has about 100lbs. of 'free recoil' with full-pressure loads (400gr. bullets @ 2700fps), and even Ross Seyfried referred its vicious recoil.

George

If recoil is a factor then I would suggest shooting a 416 before you build one.

To answer your question, you're going to need full length magnum action which are fairly expensive. There are many brands available and all probably have the same amount of utility in terms of function. Further, I would imagine this project will cost a few thousand to complete.

If the brass is the hangup, why not try selling it online?

Waitta minute, can't the CZ550 action take the .416 Wby? If so, than it shouldn't really be a problem to build one off of that. As for the recoil, it's gonna belt you regardless, however with a proper stock and maybe some heft, you should be alright.

Maybe you could trade someone that .416 Wby brass for an equal number of .416 Rigby cases and build/buy a .416 Rigby instead. it is almost the same, but hasn't got that fool belt around the rear end!

quote:

Originally posted by The Metalsmith:
Waitta minute, can't the CZ550 action take the .416 Wby? If so, than it shouldn't really be a problem to build one off of that. As for the recoil, it's gonna belt you regardless, however with a proper stock and maybe some heft, you should be alright.

The round will fit but the action is rated below the working pressure of the Weatherby rounds. It may be a conservative rating but it is stamped 3800 bar (55,100 psi) none the less.

The second point is only superficially true. Get "belted" by your average professional chef and then get belted by your average proffesional heavyweight boxer and tell me they're near the same thing.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:

quote:

Originally posted by The Metalsmith:
Waitta minute, can't the CZ550 action take the .416 Wby? If so, than it shouldn't really be a problem to build one off of that. As for the recoil, it's gonna belt you regardless, however with a proper stock and maybe some heft, you should be alright.

The round will fit but the action is rated below the working pressure of the Weatherby rounds. It may be a conservative rating but it is stamped 3800 bar (55,100 psi) none the less.

Tigger! Shame on you!
The 55,000 psi limit on the CZ is for the Gibbs case head size. It is a bolt thrust thing!

The equivalent analysis for the Rigby/Weatherby case head size would suggest a limit of 75,000 psi. Do the math and tell me if I am wrong. CZ does not stamp any pressure warnings on any of the CZ 550 Magnum rifles they build except the .505 Gibbs.

The CZ 550 Magnum is more than adequate for a .416 Weatherby or hot loaded .416 Rigby, or 460 Wby or 470 Mbogo or 500 A2 or 500 Mbogo, etc., as hot as the brass can stand.

The brass is stronger than the rifle only with the .505 Gibbs!

The brass is the weak link with the smaller cases. There, the action can take more than the brass, as with most bolt actions until you get to Gibbs case size.

ill admit the largest round ive ever fired was a 45-70, but i think i take recoil good. with that said ive seem some of the shooting videos on this forum and they make me a lil anxious bout somethin so big. but ill never know unless i try it. as far as having the brass being the determining factor of building this rifle goes, its really just a good excuse to take the plunge. i have done just a small amount of research on actions so far and i like the idea of buying a new cz action as the bases for my project. although if i could find a nice winchester model 70 crf action id rather use that as my bases. although im still researching and am open to anything except a prf action.

Both my actions had 416 Rigby bolt heads and both were stamped 3800 bar. These were among the first brought into the country by AHR long before the 505 was an option.

I doubt that would stop me if really wanted that 416 or 378 WBY but I thought the guy ought to know.

quote:

ill admit the largest round ive ever fired was a 45-70, but i think i take recoil good

You might post where you live and someone may
invite you to give it a shot. I have shot some
farily hot loads through my Guide Gun and it
aint the same as a 416 anything or my Lott.
I had some coaching on Big Bores so it helped.

I do love your idea of I got all this brass so
now I need a custom gun. Think I will try it on
the wife soon as I find some 470

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Both my actions had 416 Rigby bolt heads and both were stamped 3800 bar. These were among the first brought into the country by AHR long before the 505 was an option.

I doubt that would stop me if really wanted that 416 or 378 WBY but I thought the guy ought to know.

Tigger,
I see. However, my comments about pressure still apply, excuse me, please. If other than .505 Gibbs rifles are stamped for a pressure as low as 3800 bar, I have not seen it. I do have the same stamping on my CZ-USA made .505 Gibbs, 3800 bar, aye.

If CZ stamps an action good for the .505 Gibbs case head size at 55,000 psi (3800 bar, and 1 bar = 14.5036 psi by definition of standard, since 1 atmosphere of barometric pressure varies a bit from 14.7 psi in real life), then it is good for 75,000 psi on the Rigby head size.

Your actions must have had the stamping since they had the potential to be chambered to .505 Gibbs???

If an action will handle 55Kpsi in .505 Gibbs, simple physics and math (shearing forces on bolt locking lugs) says it will handle 75Kpsi in the .416 Rigby or .416 Weatherby head size.

.640" has got to be the biggest head that the CZ action can handle "safely" if pressures are kept down to 3800 bar in this "worst case" scenario.

But then, what safety factor do they allow in the engineering?

The action will actually/probably handle 2 or 3 times the bolt thrust they allow by legalese, to include a case full of H110 instead of H4831SC?

I agree we ought to stick to the legalese (attempted idiot proofing) limits, but interpret that for the max head size.

Most .375 H&H factory loads are about 60,000 psi, afterall, and plenty of CZ 550 Magnum actions will handle those "forever."

Case head size does make a difference. I just want to make clear that the CZ action is as good as anything else regarding strength (mechanical design and metallurgy).

Can anyone show that any of the sporting actions of similar size are any stronger?

Nine little locking lugs of the Weatherby Mark V? How many of those are bearing before they are set back by a steady diet of 63,000 psi loads?

Okay Tiggertate, you're telling me that stock design has nothing to do with recoil? Sure it's going to kick harder but with a proper stock it should be more managable. If the stock doesn't fit, it's gonna hurt more, simple truth.

Trust me, I've been around to get hit with enough shit being in the Marine Corps. Don't try to pull that boxer analogy with me.

What I mean is high recoil velocity hurts a lot more than just high foot lbs. A 400 gr bullet at 2700 fps hurts a LOT worse than a 600 gr bullet from my 505 Gibbs at 2250 or 2300.

In general, 2400 fps is more or less the magic threshold where thing get geometrically worse as the speed inceases.

RIP, I don't get why they stamp the action with a bar rating anyway. Like you say, it means different things with with different case heads.

They usually fail at the front ring, not shear both lugs off anyway. It's really the hoop strength around the chamber that seems to be the weak point.

I own a weatherby mark V deluxe in 416 weatherby with the factory muzzlebrake. With the muzzlebrake on its felt recoil is 39 lbs its like a 375 HH with the muzzlebrake off felt recoil is 83lbs very accurate rifle.I will be taking my searcy 500ne double and my 416 weatherby to tanzania in 2007 for cape buffalo.Up close i will use my double for a distance shot i will use the 416 weatherby. The 416 weatherby is hard to beat for a distance shot on cape buffalo great knock down power.

This may sound over simplistic, but if you have the brass already I agree with the use of a CZ 550 action. As for recoil, the Weatherby is nothing more than a belted Rigby case with a radiused schoulder. Just load the cartridge DOWN to Rigby or even 404 J velocities...that should solve the recoil problem the Wthby is famous for. Just because the cartridge is capable of 2700fps according to Wthby, doesn't mean you can only shoot it at that velocity...

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
This may sound over simplistic, but if you have the brass already I agree with the use of a CZ 550 action. As for recoil, the Weatherby is nothing more than a belted Rigby case with a radiused schoulder. Just load the cartridge DOWN to Rigby or even 404 J velocities...that should solve the recoil problem the Wthby is famous for. Just because the cartridge is capable of 2700fps according to Wthby, doesn't mean you can only shoot it at that velocity...

Good point!

invader66 - my reasoning might not be practical but i thought it to be reasonable.

congomike - i was thinkin today, what on earth would i shoot here in missouri with that cartridge! and i did some research on loads and thought that it might be fun to work up a light load to hunt deer with once er twice. and hopefully if im so blessed someday ill be able to go on a large game hunting trip. after all, i am only 25, got alota life left ahead of me. by the way, is this cartridge an overkill for elk or bear?

One of my favorite loads in my Rigby is a 400 gr. at about 2150fps. A "light" load by most people's standard, but pleasent to shoot, brass lasts a LONG time, and extremely accurate. This is close to one of this forum's member's favorite, the 404J. It is also very close to another favorite, the 400 3 1/2" used in double rifles. I have used my 375 for years on elk, and would have used my Rigby if I would have had the chance to go elk hunting since I have owned it. Do yourself a favor, build/buy the big bore of your choice. My first one was when I was 16 years old. I worked at a gunshop. Bought a Federal Arms barreled action in .458, put on a set of Remington sights off a 700BDL, our gunsmith donated an old Mauser sporter stock and donated his labor to fit it, and the owner of the shop handed me a box of factory Remington 458 ammo. Up to this time the biggest rifle I had shot was a 30-06. The first shot was quite an experience, but got me hooked. Now, 30+ years later, I have several big bores and am always looking for more.
Go for it and have fun!

It wasn't too much trouble to build the weatherby case on the CZ action. I had a 460 built though. The CZ started out as a .458 Lott and a factory .460 Weatherby round fed pretty easily from the magazine, the only thing holding it back was the bolt face and chamber dimensions. If you are going to shoot full power loads make sure you have some weight added. I still haven't gotten around to adding some; the recoil at full power is very sharp!

quote:

Originally posted by The Metalsmith:
Waitta minute, can't the CZ550 action take the .416 Wby? If so, than it shouldn't really be a problem to build one off of that. As for the recoil, it's gonna belt you regardless, however with a proper stock and maybe some heft, you should be alright.

LMFAO!!!
Wanna see what 116# of free recoil can do? On the very lower right hand side, there's a link to videos shooting the 550 express... I am the gent on the left.

I had spent FOUR months training with this gun, and I am very experienced with recoil...


The FACT of the matter is that 99% of people are done at 70#... 75 MAX... that's about semi-pro boxer level, to bring TT's point along... 90 is crusier weight... break 100, and it's super heavy weight, mike-tyson-chewing-your-ear-off level of recoil

jeffe

I have a CZ 550 in 416 Wby. I have loaded a lot of hot loads (400 grs at 2800 - 2850 f/s). Never a problem. That action is more than adequate. It is strong enough do not worry. My gunmaker pressure tested the rifle extensively before delivery - no problems at all..

quote:

congomike - i was thinkin today, what on earth would i shoot here in missouri with that cartridge! and i did some research on loads and thought that it might be fun to work up a light load to hunt deer with once er twice. and hopefully if im so blessed someday ill be able to go on a large game hunting trip.

Yes. Something like a medium-hard 350-grain cast bullet at 1800-2000 FPS. I'm in the process of trying to develop such a load right now using .417" 350-grain flatnose gascheck bullets from the BULL SHOP, with 100-112 grains of AA8700....

Jeffe,

I'm not in any of the videos getting my skinny little 98 pound butt drop kicked by that big boomer am I. When I grow up I'm going to shoot it again.

No Billy, that is my skinny ass getting pounded.
Hurt too.

jeffeosso-point taken.

Ever shot a October Country 4-bore? I own one and trust me, I know what recoil is too.

well.........I might tip the scales a little over 98 pounds..........

I thought you meant your ass weighed 98 lbs.

Tiggertate,

That may have been what I meant, I get so confussed sometimes

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
No Billy, that is my skinny ass getting pounded.
Hurt too.

Saved to be used against you at some point in the future!

George

quote:

Originally posted by Gringo Cazador:
Tiggertate,

That may have been what I meant, I get so confussed sometimes

Not a problem, your still the STC/Bubba poster boy for best lookin'

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
No Billy, that is my skinny ass getting pounded.
Hurt too.

Do I hear a banjo tuning up somewhere?

It is on the web too

Never post after 4 tall boys It may come back to
get ya.


I am on the right and weigh 155 and with 116lbs
free recoil =--= yea.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:

quote:

Originally posted by invader66:
No Billy, that is my skinny ass getting pounded.
Hurt too.

Saved to be used against you at some point in the future!

George

Ouch! Yep! Deffinatly watch out for drinking and typing!!