We can remminece then forget of times long gone
but must remember over a century ago a star was born.
Original design to prototype,unpacking from its crate and factory grease,to first trigger release,through war and peace,regardless we must pay tribute to this ordnance masterpiece.
It was Paul & Wilhelm at Oberndof Mauserwerke,that put this famous rifle in the hand of homeland german,facist spaniard,cousin fin and tenacious turk.
The legend of the 98 is fact,not writers fiction fantasy or folklaw,but based on true endurance through Boer and two world war. Many a soldier held the line through the brilliance of design of these two brothers from the Rhine.
As the Kaiser to the Fuhrer he did yield,so do other rifle to the mauser with one piece bolt,blade eject, controlled round feed and full gas shield.
Accordingly it has made its presence known,next to the still and breathless soldier lying facedown on the hectic battle field all stiff and blood congelled or where its rests quietly in the cabinet of the private collector next to rhino horn, zulu shield and ivory gold tip fountain pen of well heeled men.
So if you have a custom 98 in your rifle pantry be it 275 rigby or 404 jeffery, like an englishman riding in a Bently , consider it your entry into the finer gentry.
Much to the praise of seasoned african hunter, it has drilled holes in everything up to and including big tusker.
Open the rails and face the bolt,then chamber in a classic that gives a jolt. What ever that doesnt fall is not then the mausers fault.
So whether issued from military store in times of war or long awaited order from the prestigious Holland & Holland showroom floor, be it small calibre or big bore,something that was created on foreign shore still satisfies ardent worldwide hunter and collector smiles galore!

Welcome Woodjack! Your post just about says it all!

Nicely done, Woodjack

I read it then saved it

I like this guy, he knows from whence he came as they say on the bloody African continent!!

Paul Mauser was a million years ahead of his time, and apparantly always will be..the earth will perish before the Mauser is improved...you can only make it cosmetically prettier...and at the risk of making it less functional.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I like this guy, he knows from whence he came as they say on the bloody African continent!!

Paul Mauser was a million years ahead of his time, and apparantly always will be..the earth will perish before the Mauser is improved...you can only make it cosmetically prettier...and at the risk of making it less functional.

Hear hear, the immutable unwritten laws of heaven..

I second that.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

..the earth will perish before the Mauser is improved...

Are you sure? Isn't the Model 70 an improvement on the Mauser? The 70 has a better trigger, better safety, and, I think, a shorter lock time.

quote:

Originally posted by LE270:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

..the earth will perish before the Mauser is improved...

Are you sure? Isn't the Model 70 an improvement on the Mauser?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> NO! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

To diminish or worse, ignore, the work of Paul Mauser is just plain to not understand firearms history. The same can be said of John Browning.

To say that there will not be an improvement on the '98 Mauser is simply a way of paying honorable homage to a master of the trade. I must add well deserved in intent as well.

In reality the M-70 has done that and then some. In keeping the three basic features of the Mauser: cock on opening, staggered magazine, and dual foreward locking lugs it also pays it own homage to the Mauser creation and that is in imitation. The M-70 is, in fact, a copy and modification of the M-98 Mauser.

Yep,
The M98 TRUE MAUSER, with self-locking extractor, is the ultimate refinement of the bolt action.

The M70 Winchester Classic action ain't bad, as long as it wasn't made on Monday morning or Friday afternoon.

Then there is the CZ 550, a hybrid of the M98 aand M70. At least it retains the M98 self-locking extractor, eh? The M70 does not. The stock CZ trigger and safety are O.K. for paper punching, but too complicated and lack the positive striker block of the M98 or M70.

Put the M70 style safety and trigger on the CZ, and we have real hybrid vigor finally.

Then we have the boutique-niche actions for consideration ...

RIP you can't add a m70 saftey and trigger to a cz it would make the m70 fanatics cry like baby's

In fact I think Tom Burgess does do that to cz actions.........with the self locking mauser extracter IMHO with these mods it comes out ahead of the m70

Welcome Woodjack,

A great and well deserved homage, nicely placed.

Roland

in 1998 i went to a shoot at a gun club in gloucster mass. to commemerate 100 years of the best bolt gun ever designed ,the 98 mauser
the german counsel was also there from boston
i brought a rigby in 303. a rigby in 275. a 9.3x6.2 mauser type B and a westley in 318.
a custom 98 in 458.win mag we had a nice time many fellow shooters who collect military 98,s didnt realize that almost every custom maker in london built guns of of either oberndorf or military mausers ......paul

I would agree the Mod 70 is a better action. It is what I like in DGR rifles.

And for pure accuracy, the 98 hasn't been competitive in decades.

I would like to know just what makes the M-70 better than a Mauser, for a dangerous game rifle..and don't put that trigger is better, safty is better, etc., those are not better, just more scope friendly, the mauser safty is the best safty in the world today just not scope friendly, but still safer than a M-70...The Mauser trigger will outlast the m-70 trigger and again is safer...the extractor is safer and more sure than a m-70, the "piller action" is where the idea for piller bedding originated...The M-70 nor the M-98 has not been competitive in decades, the Rem owns that game so get all the fact out, not just half of them...My Mausers shoot as well as anybodys M-70... Also a M-70 is hard and will come apart like a bomb if overloaded, or has an obstruction, or whatever, a Mauser will puff up and at worst split a litte, because it is case hardened only in certain places, the rest is left softer for this very reason.. The Mauser is simply safer. The M-98 handles gas better when a case goes south on you, a M-70 will bring that gas directly into your face...

I am not condeming the M-70, it is a mauser knockoff but its not an improvement in the pure since....It is a fine gun. and its cheaper to build into a custom rifle.

Sure I like a M-70 safty on my Mausers that I scope, I like a Blackburn trigger, albiet the old Hoffman Mauser I had, had the best trigger you can imagine and it was purely Mauser worked over by an expert in his field.. but these changes are not better they are more suited to a scoped gun, nothing more....

I have both M-98s and Win pre 64s, they are my choice of all guns, but to make a flat statement that the M-70 is "better" is not correct IMO...The only M-70 I would take over a mauser (maybe) would be one of D'Arcy Echols rifles and that would depend on the Mauser at hand, and if it was a jefferys, Holland and Holland, I would be hard pressed to maintain loyalty to my good friend D'Arcy!!

Well put, Ray.

Ray,

I find myself in total agreement with you. Well said.

For sure feeding and especially calibres like 458 Win or Lott with blunt bullets that are almost the same diamter as the chamber I would take centre line feed and push feed every day.

CRF is also far more dependent on brass quality in terms of extractor groove and case rim diameter.

To be sure, noting looks nice than a staggered feed CRF being worked but for reliability and with all sorts of ammo a centre line feed push feed will eat them for breakfast.

If you tried to make a semi auto or auto a CRF the bolt would close too quick for the case rim to come from an angle and then get under the extractor.

Mike

.

Alf,

Load a 400 Hornady backwards in a 416 Rem and ditto a 416 Wby. Then belt the bolt handle closed real quick. The Wby and HS Precision have true controlled feeding.

Mike

What Ray said! Here endeth the lesson!

RCG

Woodjack,
I forgot to say thanks for the wonderful Ode to Mauser.

Now we need a simpler jingle sung to the tune of Monty Python's "Lumberjack Song," but serious praise only. A just for fun ditty.

mrlexma: get to work on this.

Ditto Ray, on the M70 safety and trigger and all else Winchester and Mauser. He has sure got that right, and for him it is a long term memory that neither Some-timers nor All-timers disease will ever take from his lips, sacred as the name of his mother.

Alf,
Mike is hopeless. He'll never get it.

Ron,

I do get it. Nothing looks nicer than a Mauser staggered feed working. That is fine and if I was making a high grade 375 H&H or 404 I would have the Mauser and with the thumbcut.

But the in line feed will win on reliability as well as easy conversion to other calibres.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike375:
... The Wby and HS Precision have true controlled feeding.

Mike

Ah, then you are just joking about the above statement.

I get it!
I am all for full-autos and semi-autos being pushfeeds.

But lets make those sporting rifle problem feeders a straight stack AND CRF, and we will all get it!

My concerns are function and not etiquette.

But if even a straight stack CRF will be more dependent on case dimensions and extractor dimensions than the straight stack push feed.

Mike

.

Mike,
If the brass is that crappy, it should go nowhere near any rifle!

Alf, good points on the controlled extraction, but if you stop the forward bolt push half way with a push feed, you can leave the cartridge half way and go back and liberate another cartridge into the feed after such a short stroke. The short stroke jam.

Controlled feeding and extracting are both important. Neither is moot.

We should call it CRFE instead of CRF. Good point.

Alf,

You certainly lose capacity with vertical stack although you can have a staggered stack that feeds up through the centre. A 378 based Wby is similar to that.

In my experience most function problems are feeding and the posts on the gunsmith forum support that is the problem area.

I also believe that the push feed with the rotating extractor adds to extraction power.

I know they are not Mauser but ask Winchester Australia about reliability of the current action Vs the M70 push feed. Some of the problem is incorrecty dimensioned extractors and some of it is cause by ammo varuations between different makers. You can say that Winchester should have the extractors right, you can say all the ammo should be the same, you can say that old cases with chewed up rims should not be used but all of this happens and the push feed M70 deals with it in its stride.

Again, for a top class 375 or 404 I would want Mauser because I like nice things. BUT if my genuinely depended on the rifle and under rough condition and unknown ammo I would want something like the HS Precision rifle.

To be fair to the Mauser and other staggered feeds they were originally designed around tapered cases and it is worth noting that the 375 H&H has a shoulder diameter similar to the 7 X 57 and 30/06.

Make the case fatter and a big diamter bullet and you increase the angle which rim must assume to go under the extractor.

As a by the way, push feed is often claimed as the cheap option but it is ironical that of the factory rifles that are mostly seen on the forums it is the push feeds that are the expensive rifles......Sako, Weatherby, Sauer, Blaser and and so on.

Personally, I can have all of them work and my criteria is matching the cartridge to the action/gun. I certrainly would have no part of a 378 Wby, 460 etc on a high grade Mauser or a 375, 450 Rigby or 404 on a high end Weatherby.

Lastly and perhaps a bit off topic one reason I prefer the M70 push feed to the CRF M70 is because of a strong benchrest back ground and having actions setup (which is easy to do) so that barrels can be moved between actions. The extractor cut out on the M70 is a big problem although I imagine safety would be OK if the extractor slot was machined all the way around.

Mike

.

I read about the self-locking extractor in Stuart Otteson's book many years ago, but let it go over the top of my head at the time.

Then Kurt C, in one of his posts here, pointed out the importance of this little dovetail bevel that mates wih a corresponding bevel on the bolt head.

Truly important!
Truly the defining single detail of the true Mauser action.

When the bolt is retracted, the extractor is pulled inward toward the bolt's long axis. The harder the bolt is pulled rearward on a sticky case in the chamber, the harder the extractor grips the offending case, and will not let go or jump over the rim unless the rim is sheared off, as Alf has pointed out.

CRFE is the only way to go for reliability of feeding and extraction.

A vertical stack CRFE is very cool if you don't have the perfect sized Mauser box for the cartridge.

I do believe the CZ 550's and the BRNO ZKK's have this self-locking extractor feature, and deserve some credit for that.

Actions that don't have it:

Winchester
Ruger
Dakota
etc.

Alf,

I did not claim the M70 was a Mauser. But I would not call a Mauser perfect.

Firstly, it simply has a poor bedding configuration as compared to the M70. The recoil lug is too small and is place well back which removes much stock material as compared to M70. Actually the Rem 700 system is the best in this area.

Secondly, it needs quality ammunition with correct extractor groove and case rim diameter as do all CRF actions.

Like some other actions incorrect bedding techniques allow for the tang to split the back of the stock by acting as a recoil lug whereas Wby, Rem 700 tangs sit on top of the wood. M70 is virtually the same except for the small square section under the tand to give greater thread depth.

The Mauser action may well be perfect by the criteria that you use and when the rifle is applied to your applications.

Mike

quote:

A vertical stack CRFE is very cool if you don't have the perfect sized Mauser box for the cartridge.

Ron, even with the correct box vertical stack will always be more reliable and doubly so for calibres like 458 Win/Lott using blunt bullets with lots of lead exposed.

And even then the Mauser needs correct case rim and extractor groove dimensions to a greater degree than a push feed.

Mike

For all the Mauser fans here... a German friend pointed this site out to me the other day... Click on the British flag to display in English - if your German is rusted
German Mauser Collector's Club
Jeff Pfeifer

Mike,
I don't think it is that hard to find brass that is within tolerances for a Mauser CRFE or other CRF. The strengths of the Mauser feeding and extraction outweigh any importance of being able to use crappy brass in a pushfeed.

quote:

Originally posted by Pfeifer:
For all the Mauser fans here... a German friend pointed this site out to me the other day... Click on the British flag to display in English - if your German is rusted
German Mauser Collector's Club
Jeff Pfeifer

Thanks for that, Pfeifer. Some nice pics of old Mausers can be found there, including an African Model, and a bunch of those old castoff 10.75x68's.

Ray:

Why do I think the Mod70 is better? It is stiffer and has a better lock time.

Many readers on this site seem to love Boddington. Well, read his chapter on extractors in Safari Rifles. Go read Carmichel's The Modern Rifle. Both of these guys don't think there is much difference in extraction ability between CRF and PF.

Winchester Model 70 Pre 64, I considered it the utmost refinement of the Mauser action, and the first choice of many wanting custom rifles.

Roland

Look at this :
http://www.golmatic.de/

Jiri,
Very nice.
A Prechtl M98 Magnum action in the white, 'cept the safety. Same action used by Johannsen and SigArms, with different safeties and scope mounting allowances as options. My 450 Dakota is the basic one, like your picture, with Mauser Flag safety and uncut square bridges.

.

Why would someone want an action that has had the recoil lug moved back to virtually remove all stock materialand then have a lug that is so shallow that even smaller calibres need the recoil lug to rest directly on the cross bolt to try and gain area. And why make a tang with no bedding surface.

It must be close to the junkiest action available, especially when compared to a Model 70.

Mike