...german national..can't own guns in the US...admits he has zero experience with big bores.... admits he owns none... proven troll.... and I gave him the shadow of a doubt that he might have SOME experience with destructive devices... computer game expereince that is...

i hope this is my last troll post....
jeffe

[ 04-10-2003, 18:16: Message edited by: jeffeosso ]

Karl,

Yes they do. www.a-squarecompany.com

Jeffeosso, I have been kidding around on this thread. I figured it was meant to be somewhat of a lighthearted thread anyway. I apologize to those of you that have no sense of humor.

FWIW, you Jeffe, are the one who is fluent in role playing game websites, NOT I. Never heard of these games before your mention of them here. How long have you been playing them?

Axel

Oooh! Oooh!
I know!
450 Dakota.
What do I win?!

About not using bolt actions, how many rounds were fired at that lion?
I dare say a man who can work a bolt action under duress has a quicker third and fourth shot than the guy with the double, right?

Of course, the right answer is, "the biggest you're confortable with."
There are some times when bigger just really is better.

Fun question to think about. For a double rifle I'd choose one of Butch Searcy's rifles in .577NE and in a bolt gun I'd have to pick a .458 Lott out of the Winchester custom shop. Their new African model is a nice gun.

The one on the right in big bolt action.
You could stop a Reno Rent-a-Car...Ed.

NitroX,

You picked the right caliber, wrong round.
It should be the 22 long rifle, chambered in the Marlin Lever Gun. Nineteen quick shots. You could put slugs in the Buff starting a 30 yards and still be shooting when he fell at your boots.
Do the math: 19 times 40 grains equals 760 grains of lead. Real stopping power!HI

Love to keep the Lever Gun possibilities alive.

Roger QSL

HI,

Easy my 50-110 from my win86 lever,525 grain WFN at 2200fps.Thanks,Kev

A pocket knife....clinched in my teeth of course

.950 JDJ but in a 100 Lb gun im not gonna be packing it very far.

There is nothing on earth any mortal man can shoot that will stop an angry animal.
One would need a C-130 with the new 21,000 lb daisy cutter to ensure consistent results every time, and the element of danger is greatly reduced, unless you fly too close to the blast.
Trigger

Triggerhap, my M202 will STOP an angry animal NO PROBLEM!

Axel

Yeah,Axel,
But you're still on the ground where the critters buddy can sneak up on you.
The C-130 with the daisycutter is the only way to go. Hunt is over, and you're hundreds of miles away on a beach sipping rum-n-cokes 3 hours later.
Trigger

My favorite for such activity is an Abrahms tank.
Even an old one, with my favorite little 105, an A2 50 caliber machine gun, and a M 60 machine gun, in 308.

However, rather then have some poor animal impale itself on the 105, I would much perfer a Safari to chase that favorite of all game, the infamous
Mugabi.

I'd even give him a minute head start.
VEG


s

Socrates--I would join that hunt also..Ed.

I'm a PH and whilst I don't pretend to be the world's leading expert on DG I guess I spend around 4+ months each year hunting dangerous game in a variety of African countries. So I guess I get more experience than a good many hunters and for what it's worth...... I use a left handed weatherby action rifle that has been remade into a .500 Jeffrey by Sabi Rifles in Nelspruit RSA. The rifle has open shallow vee rearsight and a brass foresight with a big white pop up bead for dusk/night shooting. Metal finish is dull "parkerised" and the wood is oiled. There is no scope. She kicks a bit, but is bloody accurate and the best stopper I've ever used...... assuming I manage to get the bullet in the right place!

Thanks for your post Steve. A serious opinion again at last! (Although I was enjoying all of them thanks guys )

I guess that is one big vote for a bolt action coming from a pro hunter.

What bullets do you use in the 500?

karl.

Well, I got a bit lost with the humour!

When I need a soft bullet I use Woodleigh SP or PSP dependant upon the species we're hunting. (Although SP does tend to lose shape in the magazine after the 1st shot goes off) and I use a custom Mono-solid that is made here in SA. I actually get them from Sabi rifles in Nelspruit. Thet're slightly undersized with gas-check rings and shoot and perform brilliantly. Bullet weight is 535 grains and I get 2200 fps and 5800 ft lbs with a load of 103 grains for solid and 105 grains for soft of a local powder. All 3 shoot to the same point of impact.

The rifle weighs a tad over 5 kgs, and has a capacity of 2+1.

For anyone considering buying a good African rifle I would definitely recommend the Sabi rifle product...... although I'm not entirely sure if SA proof marks are accepted in the US.

Steve, what kind of penetration do you get with those soft points going 2200 fps? I have read that the soft points do not penetrate well in the bigger calibers, is this your experience?

Thanks,
Axel

Hi Axel,

No, from my experience they penetrate and perform extremely well. I reckon the key is to keep the bullet below 2000 fps. According to the Woodleigh info they recommend a speed of 1800-2200 fps. Mine exit the muzzle at around 2200 and most of my shots are at a range of less than 50 yards... sometimes a lot less.

However, as you know it doesn't matter how big the calibre is, if you put it in the wrong place the animal stays on it's feet.

Steve, would it be possible to post some recovered bullet pics?

Thanks,
Axel

Karl, I've never been to Africa or got into that large a caliber but I do have a fairly extensive library and my pick for a PH would probably be something on the order of a .505 Gibbs. Choice of rifle is a different matter. After seeing the Mark Sullivan video it sure makes a strong argument for double rifles. I think regardless of caliber or rifle the criteria for me if I was going to be a PH would be the finest bullets money can buy and I'd want to know the rifle intimately from one end to the other.

I hate to continue the thread with the M202 but you should really talk to some of the guys that were present when the 3/73rd (the 82nd's old Sheridan unit) test fired them and the first one chainfired. After that trooper's corpse was put out no one else would fire them...
I am quite happy with the 500 Jeffery we built on a VZ24, you have to watch overall length but with the 535 grain bullets it is fine.

How effective would a 577 tyrannosaur be if loaded to just a bit above normal 577 NE levels?

Just curious, not like like I'm planning to get one or nothing... Or am I?!!

Hi Axel,
I'll try to get some good photo's of my small collection of bullets and if they're OK I'll post them.

The problem is that most of the bullets get filched by my clients for their collections!!

I do have a mono that I recovered after it had shot through a small tree and into a wounded blue wilderbeest. Would you believe that other than the rifling marks on the bullet it was still perfect.

I have settled on the 404 Jefferys or 416 Rem. mostly because I shoot them quite well from any position and from awkward positions...I shoot them as easily as I shoot a 223, I can't do that with the 458 Lott on up, that recoil makes me having to concentrate not to flinch and I don't need to be thinking such things...

I think it is very important to KNOW your limitations and not just THINK you know them.

If I cannot shoot off the bench without thought of recoil or shoot from a squatting position or prone without thinking "kick", then that's the gun I will shoot..If I am thinking ouch, then that is too much gun.

Keep in mind that I can shoot groups with a 600 Nitro express or anything else if I have to but I sure have to concentrate to do it and that having to concentrate is not a good thing in the bush IMO.....

I do know a 404 solid in the brain, spine or even the heart can be pretty perminent, in most cases, and that's about all I can say for a 470 or 505 for that matter...

470 NE double or 500 A-Square magazine rifle, either one. 10 lbs. minimum to 11 lbs. max., so that I am able to both carry it all day and handle it well in action. Gotta know your limitations.

Hey LSG !!

I'm about to get me an used A-square in .577 Tyr.
What's the point in reducing the .577 powdercharge, down to .577 NE level ? That would be to insult to this already omnious round. I'm going to receive about 188 ft/lbs of recoil i figured. That's gonna hurt. That's in a 13 pound rifle !!That's a lot more than my .416 Wby. Heavy recoil is a part of the game,,maybe you're all going to laugh now as we all know after watching videos with this round ,,that i'm going to be surprised !!
The .577 Tyr is the strongest, meanest you get in bolt action,,and with long barrel, Vithauri high energy powder and horneber cases, this is the velocity king of the big bores, and it's power is unmatched,,,you heard me !!

Per577!

The .600 Overkill with a 750 grainer at 2900-3000 FPS!!! The .577 Tyrannosaur can only get 2700 FPS MAX!
And the .600 OK will have more "STOPPING POWER" with a 900 grainer at 2550 FPS!

Ok Overkill !!

If you can tell me what sources you got info from referring to the .600 OK ballistics : 2900 - 3000 fps with 750 gr. i would be happy.
You see,,if the info is from Robgunbuilder then i do not doubt it,,but the .577 T - rex have 225 gr. watercapacity ( horneber ). I do not think the .600 OK even come close in useable capacity. Because the case is from .585 Nyati, and it's rim dia. and base dia is 660,,the case is 3.0. The Tyr is superior in this case. The rim, and base is 688,,and the case lenght 2.99,,the neck dia,,is 614 ,,beat that !!the whole cartridge is 3.71,,and the .600 or nyati is 3.525 long.. You figure out.
I'm not saying i' am absolutely right in this case,,in fact i'm not sure..But from case comparisons there seems to be no doubt....?

Per!

Yeah the �.577 T-rex case is bigger than the .585 brass. But If you can load the .600 Overkill to 2900-3000 FPS with a 750 grainer it is more powerfull than the .577 Tyrannosaur
Yes, the info is from Robgunbuilder!

And think about a 900 grain woodleigh SP at 2550 FPS

Are you going to buy Ulriks Hannibal rifle?

Hell yeahh !!

Was it really that obvious,,i mean buying Ulriks hannibal ?
How did you know ?
Maybe Robgunbuilder just say 2900-3000 fps with 750 gr. just to impress you. Think about that. Because a thumb of rule says that the more capacity the case have the more velocity will it be able to gain. Is that so much to doubt about,really ??
I do not mean to offend you in any way overkill, but maybe robgunbuilder are both fed up with the questions we so often asks, and he does'nt have time to respond. It's the same case with me and Karl. I've asked him several times about his .585 Gehringer if you've heard of that rifle,,and he don't mind answering. Maybe that's because we bore them out,,and we don't have any more intelligent questions to ask !?
I can understand Robgbuilder and Karl. We are both happy to get info about how powerful hunting cartridges can be,,and there's nothing wrong with that.So it's just the way it is !
Again i was a little bit surprised about you actually knowing i'm about to buy his rifle ?( maybe i told you ...?)
Well 2900 fps with the 750 gr. bullet is just aboutthe recoil i can stand,,,he,he,,only kidding. And 2550 fps with 900 grainers,,HOLY LORD !!

Re entering the fray...

3000fps with a 750gn bullet sounds like the domain of 50BMG capacity wildcats I would think.

2550fps with a 900 grain bullet is more reasonable since it is 2000ftlbs less than the above load.

Karl.

Karl,

You do not need a custom rifle to experience that much trauma. A high speed auto accident will do it nicely.

Per!

Yes you have told me that you are going to buy Ulriks Hannibal. You have to tell me about the recoil when you shoot a 750 grainer at 2700 FPS

Yeah, they are maybe a little tired of the same questions all the time...
I was shooting my .460 Wby today and it realy hurts after 10 shoots. I want a .600 OK or a .700 BMG IMP some were in the time.

Overkill !

I think i have to try 188 ft/ lbs of recoil first. That's 2550 fps in a 13 pound rifle. That's about maximum in the .585 Nyati also,,even tough i have heard it's quite feasible to manage 2560 fps in Nyati without problems !!

Well with the powder Ulrik have now ( vvn-550 ),,and with that lot number i think 2700 + fps is quite possible. He got 2686 fps with 185 gr. of vvn-550. I think if he raised to 188 gr. the number which would occur would be a lot higher on his chrono. Man that's over 200 ft/lbs recoil energy,,oucch !

No one has mentioned a BAR yet.

The BAR are too small in caliber and only have 3 or 5 shot magazines! Who would pick one of those for a Stopper??

Axel