I saw a 450 Dakota (No Brake) that I really like, that weighs 7.5 lbs. It sure would be nice to carry but I'm concerned about recoil. Does any one have expeince with light weight big bores.

DR B

450 Dakota

now THAT is cool..
recoil speeds will be, hmm, BRISK .. with a 1.25# scope, 6oz of bullets, and a sling, you are right at 10# dressed...

but, seriously, that sounds like a "jeffe built it because he was made at me" rifle

There's a good reason it's for sale. That rifle is DOA for me. With a recoil rating of 110 or higher that is just a poorly designed rifle.

I'm on the other side of that equation, CZ 550 Safari Classic in 375 H&H with a mercury recoil reducer. It must weigh over 10 lbs without scope ... balance is good, handles nice, recoil is mild



Chuck

Find out how wide the butt was made on that rifle.

As with other things, a wide butt "cushions the ride".

You can always add mass to the rifle later.

George

I had a 458Lott that was in that weightrange. I think I was doing 2250 with a 500grainer. It really wasnt that bad. I had a kevlar stock with a mercury recoil reducer.

I had alot of people shoot it and they were real surprised at how easy it was to shoot, although it was dropped once but a guy who was very recoil shy.

Off the bench it would knock the snot out of you though.

I say GO FOR IT!...I love lighter guns and am known for that,yet I am not into pain in any way,shape or form!...I have a 416 RemMag at 4.75pds,a 500Jeffery at 6.4pds,a 458Lott at 6pds,a 600AHR at 9.5 and another one coming at 8pds!(that one may HURT!) I find that on the bench,they all hurt if you shoot them alot in one sitting,so use a Caldwell Lead Sled for sighting in and then when your hunting,you wont even realize when they go off(I dont)...Many may disagree,but I feel that I carry them 99x more than I shoot them and there are other factors that come in to play,mainly stock design and your recoil tolerance...Heck,if you are recoil shy,then a Brake is very effective.I have them on my guns,but dont use them when hunting if they are removable,except at the range....The 458Lott at 7.5 pds is tolerable,just brake it if needed..Good Luck!

I would question that 7.5 lbs weight. I have a 300 Weatherby built on a Remington 700 in a Rimrock synthetic stock, fluted barrel,skeletonized action, light weight firing pin, light weight Talley mounts and the scope being the major difference is a Bushnell 2.5 to 10. The gun weight total is 8.25 lbs. I would think that the 450 Dakota would end up heavier than that. It must not be the one in the link on your post.
Take good care,
Dave

Yeah, I would agree. Better get out the scale, that rifle doesn't look like it could weigh 7.5 lbs.

Action, scope, bottom metal, alone probably pushing close to 5 lbs. Does not leave much for the barrel, stock, etc. Barrel alone would be over 3 lbs. so closer estimate would be minimum of 9 lbs which is light enough for that caliber. To each his own.

I have the up most respect for all of you who like to shoot lite weight big bores.

My feelings are that any thing in this power range should weigh 10lbs plus.

I too am very sceptical about the advertized weight. I've owned a 450 Dakota and I can tell you that with a 23 inch sporter barrel contour I had on the rifle it still weighed in at 9.5 lbs which I thought was a great weight for caliber, I shot my first cape buffalo with that rifle in 1992.
To answer your question, the 450 Dakota burns a lot of powder just like it's English cousin the 450 Rigby, if you are going to shoot full loads it's going to spank you standing, sitting, whatever position you shoot it in, at 9.5 lbs it's pushing 80 lbs of recoil. The rifle in the pictures you showed us is not 7.5 lbs, no way.

I am not a recoil shy pussy, but I would not want anything to do with a 500 at 2300 fps in a 7.5 pound rifle. That has to be brutal! A Lott in a 10 pound rifle is not for the recoil conscious and this is 3/4 of that weight and more powder charge. The rifle looks like it would have to make 9.5 pounds before it would be 7.5.

My CZ 589 .458 Lott double weighs 8.5 lbs. At an honest 2250fps it kicks hard but and here is the big but. IF YOU HUNT, you'll be carrying it way more comfortably and for a much longer time than a 12lb gun. IF your a target shooter then go for more weight For two shots I can take any amount of pain. I'll trade weight reduction for momentary discomfort anytime! My next .600Ok is going to weigh 8.5 lbs.-Rob

I agree with the posts above, the rifle in the photo must weigh close to 9 lbs. Having said that, my dakota is probably close to 10lbs with scope and ammo. It kicks hard with full power loads. I let the trackers shoot is in Zim last year sitting in a cloth chair. It knocked two of them over backwards! The third saw the first two and leaned forward enough to prevent falling. None of these guys would shoot the gun more than once! It will knock the hell out of buffalo too!

Hmmm. A 7.5 pound rifle firing a 500 grain bullet at 2350 FPS..........
Recoil velocity = 29 FPS;
Recoil Energy = 98 foot-pounds.

A real "fun gun"!!! You could ride this one to town, if the magazine held enough rounds ..........

Go get that puppy and light her up. You can get used to heavy recoil with a proper shooting technique, and a good recoil pad. You will be used to it before you know it, with a little practice. Have some fun with it!

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
My CZ 589 .458 Lott double weighs 8.5 lbs. At an honest 2250fps it kicks hard but and here is the big but. IF YOU HUNT, you'll be carrying it way more comfortably and for a much longer time than a 12lb gun. IF your a target shooter then go for more weight For two shots I can take any amount of pain. I'll trade weight reduction for momentary discomfort anytime! My next .600Ok is going to weigh 8.5 lbs.-Rob

Not to highjack this thread , but Rob, let's hear about your 8.5 lb 600 overkill

I'm with SafariKid & others. Go for the light wieght if it's a hunter. You can add weight and brakes if it's just a shooter.

I have all the parts. Just have to do some barrel fluting, skeletonizing of the CZ action, Integral muzzel brake,open sights, Carbon fibre stock etc.Gonna use every trick in the book. No need for a scope or mounts as this gun will be used at 50 yrds max. It will be a pleasure to carry and for two shots it will hurt a bit. But so what!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I have all the parts. Just have to do some barrel fluting, skeletonizing of the CZ action, Integral muzzel brake,open sights, Carbon fibre stock etc.Gonna use every trick in the book. No need for a scope or mounts as this gun will be used at 50 yrds max. It will be a pleasure to carry and for two shots it will hurt a bit. But so what!-Rob

Pics & details Rob?? I've taken the brake off my Overkill for testing. Now it's only around 9 lbs

Dr. B,

My 450 Dakota is pleasant to shoot at 11 pounds, and without scope or sling is still just fine at 10 pounds.

I can shoulder aim and fire quickly without alot of technique required.

With a lighter rifle you will just get the snot kicked out of you.

I did briefly owned a 416 Remington made by Dakota that was 7.5 pounds without accessories. With 1.5 x 5 and ammo it was about 8.25 or 8.5 I forget.

I dont see how you could get a 450 weighing 7.5 pounds, or why you would want to press the trigger!

One good thing about this rifle is it has a fairly upright hand grip. My 416 Dakota had one designed for a 300 WM that was very straight. Pretty but worthless unless you had really big hands.

If you want a light elephant and buffalo gun why not try Wills approach? (416 Taylor).

Andy

my CZ (458Lott conversion) 450 Dakota weighs 10lbs with a Leupold 1.5-5X on it empty. I may end up putting a recoil reducer in the stock if need be.
I am shooting about 2480fps with a lot (a whole lot) of 4350 and the Swift A-Frame or Barnes solids.
It's a significant amount of power, on both ends!
6800 +/-ft lbs of ME.

Rich
DRSS
Knowledge not shared is knowledge lost...

The rifle pictured here cannot possibly be 7.5 pounds.

Without scope, unloaded, bare-naked weight is 9.5 pounds I guess. Possibly 9.0 pounds minimum if the stock is shorter and the barrel shorter and lighter contour than it looks to me.

Of course this could be an 8/10 scale model of a real 450 Dakota and weigh right at 7.5 pounds.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:

450 Dakota

7.5 pounds for a .450 Dakota ... ouch! I don't want to think about it too much.

For me 10 pounds for a .458 AR is about right. The .416 Aagaard (is a .376 Steyr necked up to .416 and improved ... moves a 350 gr at 2300 fps) is fine at 8+ pounds.

My .450 Dakota weighs 11.5 lbs with rings and scope and I don't think I'd want it any lighter.

Cheers,
Andy

quote:

Originally posted by Will:
Yeah, I would agree. Better get out the scale, that rifle doesn't look like it could weigh 7.5 lbs.

I'd say the same thing. A properly proportioned .458 barrel has to weigh almost 4# by itself, so that'd be some mighty light action and stock work to make it meet 7.5#. Even at that, it's a gorgeous rifle! I take it it's not possible to fondle it in person?

For a 450 Dakota, which is essentially a 460 Wby, I'd want a little more heft to steady shots and lessen recoil. 11# would be about right for me.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I saw a 450 Dakota (No Brake) that I really like, that weighs 7.5 lbs. It sure would be nice to carry but I'm concerned about recoil. Does any one have expeince with light weight big bores.

DR B

450 Dakota

Have fun! Not my cup of tea!

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
I saw a 450 Dakota (No Brake) that I really like, that weighs 7.5 lbs. It sure would be nice to carry but I'm concerned about recoil. Does any one have expeince with light weight big bores.

DR B

450 Dakota

I shudder to think about shooting such a beast. Call me a wimp!

465H&H

Well I guess I've got egg on my face. I made a mistake on the weight of the rifle. The rifle I posted tne link to weighs 8,5 to 9 lbs. Sorry for the confusion kevin and I were talking about several projects and I got confused, I guess I'm getting as senile as RIP.
DR B

Dr B,

Even if it weighs 8 pounds without scope and mounts, thats really light for a 450 Dakota!

If you offered me a chance to shoot it, I would have to refuse and hand you my 10 - 11 pounder instead.



Let us know if you do purchase it!

Andy

You cannot believe everything you read on the internet.

I own a Magnum Mauser in 450 Dakota built by SIGARMS with the Prechtl action, and the muzzle is a friggin' .670" diameter, and it weighs 9.5 pounds exactly, about as light as you are going to get, in a conformation near identical to the pictured rifle.

"Dr B" stands for drool bucket?

Try again to get the weight right. No BS this time please.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr B:
Well I guess I've got egg on my face. I made a mistake on the weight of the rifle. The rifle I posted tne link to weighs 8,5 to 9 lbs. Sorry for the confusion kevin and I were talking about several projects and I got confused, I guess I'm getting as senile as RIP.
DR B

I would still be concerned about recoil with a 450 Dakota at 8.5-9 pounds. I have a Saco converted to 458 Lott by Shilen. The only problem is it weighs 8.65 pounds with scope. The stock on the Dakota may be wider at the recoil pad I can’t tell from the pictures. Having a wider stock helps spread the recoil out. My sako is only 1.5 in wide. My other Lott is a CZ and the but is 1.91 wide and noticeably easier to shoot. The CZ weighs 9.4 pounds with out scope, both have Decelerator pads. I find recoil with the Sako to be bothersome with some 405 gr at about 2400-2450 and the 500 loads with 75gr of Varget at about 2200 will get your attention I have tried the 550 and 600 gr loads but won’t let any one that I like shoot them in the Sako.
I think as long as you understand the recoil issue and think you can make it work it looks like a nice rifle.
I can only give approximate velocity as my chronograph is down.
Bill

I see Dr B has been editing his last post above.
First he allowed the rifle might be 7.5 to 8 pounds, instead of 7.5 lbs. Now he is saying it might be 8.5 to 9 lbs.

Pad poop if you can't get anymore precise than a half pound off.

What's next? 9.5 to 10 pounds?
Training for politics?

Many moons past in the exhuberence of my youth, I came to the erronieus conclucion that you mostly carried a rifle and only shot it on ocassion, so I built myself a 7.5 Lb. 505 Gibbs IMp.

Took it to the range and the first shot hit the 50 yard target dead center, go math and trigger pull on my part..Blood is now coming out my nose and my eyes are glassy, my brain is numb..The second shot hits the dirt half way to the target and whines off to Sun Valley where hopefully it landed on some anti SOB, and a good chance it did...

I packed it up and sold it in the next issue of gun list to a tough guy who claimed he could shoot anything, he called me and said it kicked him too hard and injured his eye as he had an operation a year ago...I told him to send it back and he said "nope, it was my mistake and you warned me that it was unshootable"

I see that lovely little rifle from time to time in the Gun Digest, it surfaces about every 3 to 6 months, so all you bad asses keep looking for it, it gets cheaper every time...

I would think it would Be close the same as the 458 lott witch is about 72 lbs. But it doesn't
hurt to shoot. It is a good shove tho and of course it weighs 10.3 lbs. With scope.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
You cannot believe everything you read on the internet.

Prove it.



Looks like a 10 pounder to me.

About 10.5 with that scope and rings, add 5 rounds of ammo (four in box and one in chamber) and it will be about 11 pounds.

Getting back to the man's question and the info he provided, the rifle would kick the pure snot out of you. I have a 458WM that weighs 8.5#s and a 500gr bullet at 2068fps made me post here about alternatives, and I don't consider myself a whimp and have several 375's, and have one 40 and just got rid of another.

I cannot picture getting behind a 7.5#, 8.5#, or 10.5# rifle shooting a 500gr bullet at 2300fps. The 7.5# rifle would generate 84 lbs of recoil; the 8.5# rifle would generate 74 lbs of recoil; and the 10.5#rifle would generate 60 lbs of recoil. Mine was generating 60 lbs with 500grs at 2060fps in 8.5 lbs, and it HURT. My hat is off to you guys who can handle that, but my eye doctor told me to stop shooting it because it caused me obnoxious floaters and raised the specter of retinal detachment. Kudude

I've got two of Mike Cyrus' 500's here right now. 500 gr at 2,300 in a short action. One weighs 8.6lb and the other 6.8 lb (w/o scope) The will beat you but it is survivable, if the stock fits you well. They would be more comfortable at 10.5 pounds but they wouldn't be so packable. These little guys are built on short actions (Savage and Montana) and look, feel and carry like a 308.

Your best bet is to shoot it and then be HONEST with yourself.

TMc

Only in the land of the internet!!