Anyone who has a good combo for this caliber in the upper end?
I checked Midway for a Barnes banded 400gr/ Woodleigh 410grain combo, but the dont carry 410grains anymore, it seems.


Niels

Aha! This one is going to generate a lot of discussion. First of all, softs for what game? First shot on a buff or first shot on a lion? As for the solids, I am waiting to hear, as I am interested in the testimonies of the experienced, if there is any significant difference in the performance of solids. For instance, will a Hornady "Encapsulated" perform as well a monolithic solid and does it make any difference.

I have recovered Woodleigh 400 gr softs from game in my 450/400. 480 gr Woodleigh softs and 500 gr Swift A Frames from buff and 480 Woodleigh solids from buff and elephant, fired out of my 450 No2. All have given excellent performance.

barnes barnes and barnes (x, xlc, solids)

anything else?
heh

jeffe

Norma factory ammunition for the 416 Rigby loads 400 grain Swift A-Frames and 400 grain Barnes Solids. This is a good combination and it comes straight from the factory.

I would second what Wink asked ...what type of hunting, game, etc..

I also have a CZ 416R and in the process of developing loads. So far I have been working with 400 grain Barnes TSX and North Fork 370 grain Cup Points. Cup Points may not feed in every rifle without some work being done to the rifle. Both the TSX and Cup Points shoot well in my rifle from 2400 fps to 2550 (TSX) and 2400 fps to 2600 (North Fork) small samples chronographed, so far. I use Norma Brass, Federal 215 Match, H4831sc.

I used the 500 grain TSX, in my 458 Lott, at nominal 2250 fps, for the Cape Buffs I shot and that worked extremely well...I like the Barnes TSX that are extremely accurate in every rifle I have tested and terminal performance has been exceptional...with either the TSX or North Forks Cups I am unsure if you need a "true non-expanding" Solid for Buffalo...

If I were to take my 416 just after Buffalo I would use either the TSX or Cup Points...if I had plains game on the menu as well as Buffalo I would opt for the TSX possibly a little better at longer ranges...

jjs,
I am ordering some Northfork CPS bullets and was warned by Mike at Northfork that there are sometimes feeding problems. I also have a CZ 550 in 416 Rigby and wondered if you had to make any modifications to your rifle.

Wink,

Out of the box my 416 would not feed the CUP Points at all. Before I purchased the rifle I was planning on having some modifications done by a gun smith. I sent him the rifle and some cup points. He adjusted the feeding, rails, etc somewhat (I am not knowledgeable enough to describe what he did). He advised that the Cup points feed fine except for the last round. He did replace the magazine box as well...said it was not large enough for 416R.

I have not had enough range time to fully test the cup point feeding, however, last weekend I went to the range and the cup points seemed to function just fine with the modifications done.

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
Anyone who has a good combo for this caliber in the upper end?
I checked Midway for a Barnes banded 400gr/ Woodleigh 410grain combo, but the dont carry 410grains anymore, it seems.

I need a combo primarily for buffalo and quite possibly elephant. Exotic bullets like northfork are not within reach from europe. And I kind of like the roundnosed bullets like woodleigh and Asquare.

Where you live getttin some of these bullets may be a problem...

I would use 400 gr. Woodleigh softs and solids, they have been proving themselves for 50 years in the field with a prestine reputation.

Kynamco in the UK sells Woodleigh bullets (at a little over 2.00 USD per bullet) and sometimes Johannsen in Germany stocks them. Johanssen, who you can reach at www.johannsen-jagd.de has a fairly complete line of high end bullets in a lot of big bore calibers. Here again we are not talking about US prices as 50 Swift A-Frames in 416 are sold for about 85 Euros, ie. 110 USD. If you want A-Frame and/or Barnes solids then Norma factory ammo is sold for about 140 Euros for a box of 20 in France, ie about 7,00 Euros a round. I don't know what it would cost in Denmark but it is surely available.

Hi Wink

As you see...prices are enormous in europe, which is why I "roll my own". It is not so much the hunting bullets fired while hunting, but more the large amounts fired during practise.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Where you live getttin some of these bullets may be a problem...

I would use 400 gr. Woodleigh softs and solids, they have been proving themselves for 50 years in the field with a prestine reputation.

That is so right, and the reason I like them (plus they look good too, but that is not as important as reliability)
You say 400gr softs and solids.. My questions are: the 400gr is cannelured for 416REM will it "fit" my 416Rigby? Are Banded flatnosed barnes not the ideal/better solid?

Neils,

I have been loading the Barnes Banded Solids in 458 and 470 NE but have not used them on large beast just yet. They seem to work well on paper and are more accurate, in my rifles, than the Barnes Round Nose Solids.

As a soft you may want to give the Barnes Triple Shocks, 400 grainers in the Rigby, a try...they should work very well on Cape Buffalo, etc..

While no expert, I've killed some 50 african critters(including 5-6 Buff) with a 416 Rigby with Woodleigh bullets. Soft and solids.I've been very impressed. -Rob

Help.. Now I can't find Woodleigh 410/.416R solids at midway, neither.
First no soft 410grainers, now no solids?
Anyone know what is going on at Midway.
Anyone know of a more reliable source for these bullets?

http://www.huntingtons.com/Bullet-Woodleigh.html

You better contact before ordering to make sure they have them in stock--chris

Niels,
Practicing with high grade bullets in 416 caliber is indeed a source of wallet flinch. I shoot up Hornady bullets for general target and rifle handling practice since I can't afford to shoot the premium bullets on a regular basis. In France they are the least expensive 416 bullets and are the most available. I mentioned (but no one has reponded) that I do not know the real merits/faults of Hornady "encapsulated" bullets for use as solids. If anyone has any experience one way or the other maybe they will contribute to the discussion. I should also add that there is an importer of North Fork bullets in Norway. He may also be able to provide those bullets which have always received outstanding reviews by the AR members who have used them on game. I haven't used them yet.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
barnes barnes and barnes (x, xlc, solids)

anything else?
heh

jeffe

Yes........... More terminal frontal area please!

BigRx

quote:

Originally posted by Niels:
Help.. Now I can't find Woodleigh 410/.416R solids at midway, neither.
First no soft 410grainers, now no solids?
Anyone know what is going on at Midway.
Anyone know of a more reliable source for these bullets?

Niels,

I e-mailed Woodleigh as first I saw the .411" 400gr .450/400 solid disappear from their (Midway) stock numbers, and then in a couple of weeks the same bullet in soft did as well!

Woodleigh assured me they were on order by Midway, coming by boat, and 8 to 10 weeks out.
I don't know Midway's thought about dropping the stock number in the interum however.

I would check back and see if they re-appear as I am going to do. Or e-mail Woodleigh; they are very nice and generous with information.

Regards,
BigRx

quote:

Originally posted by Wink:
I mentioned (but no one has reponded) that I do not know the real merits/faults of Hornady "encapsulated" bullets for use as solids. If anyone has any experience one way or the other maybe they will contribute to the discussion.

Wink,

I am in the process of testing these in .416.

I will tell you what I know now, as I am not complete and unfortunately no real use on DG.

They are accurate.

They are very uniform in weight.

The nose shape has been reconfigured to a better more blunt shape.

The jacket is a thick and strong nosed brass or bronze in lieu of the gilding metal plated steel of the past.

The encapsulation is a strengthening move I believe and not for the ever increasing lead phoebia syndrome the world seems to be in. Conventional solids usually fail at the base, bending, squirting out lead, turning in the process...
The encapsulation seems almost like another short jacket swaged into the opening the opposite way and should reinforce the base corners in the process.
I have tried straight line penetration in some almost petrified dry laurel wood which is my "murder" test for softs and the new Hornady penetrated 62" deep straight as an arrow, and was pristine when found! Unfortunately I have no .416 in old style. But the old style Hornady in .375 H&H penetrated 54" and the old .375 doesn't need to take a back seat on penetration depth to many IMHO and experience.

Sorry I haven't gotten any farther than this info.

BigRx

Most all of todays solids are fine for Buffalo, I don't know any that have failed in years..

I liked the old Hornady solids, have not tried the new ones but have had good reports..The Woodleighs have been successful for years and have a track record thats hard to beat.....

As for my personal preferences they get less every year as all the factories seem to have mastered the art of bullet making...but my choice for a soft is Northfork, Woodleigh and Nosler in the 416, they simply work...for a solid the Northfork flat point or its clone the GS Customs (may have that backwards) are my choice if they will feed in your gun, and any bullet should feed in a "proper" gun....

All that said, I like the Cup Point from Northfork better than "any solid" or "any soft" on everything but Elephant, where I prefer a flat nose solid... This simplifies my life...

Woodlighs have "peened" on me several times. I like Barnes , i have never had a problem with one . Hope this helps you out.

quote:

Originally posted by Charles Mc Williams:
Woodlighs have "peened" on me several times. I like Barnes , i have never had a problem with one . Hope this helps you out.

I am sure it helps, but I dont know the word Peened. What does that mean?

Peened or peening,means the soild after striking bone ( heavy bone) starts to mushroom and that prevents or greatly reduces penetration. Most good solids are turned from mild steel, the good ones have a flat nose and this helps prevent the bullet from veering off its entended path .Flat noses work better tnan round noses in this regard but remember nothing is gaurenteed after the bullet strikes the game. Many U.S. ammo manufactors call some bullets "soilds", but are merely full metal jackets with a lead core. This is not the type of solid you want to use if you are hunting something dangerous. Spend the money on good bullets and they will pay you back in spades. Hope this helps you out. Charlie

Williams,
I have never seen this on Buffalo, Hippo, or anything except on elephant, but I have not seen it in many years on elephant, todays solid bullets seem to work on about everything...

Like you I like a monolithic flat nose solid on elephant but I have never had a Woodliegh solid fail nor have I witnessed them fail elephant. I am sure they could, but by the same token I saw a tungston Speer solid that break in half and I have seen a Barnes solid that was broken in half, so I suppose any bullet can fail on any given day, fortunately todays bullets are better than ever, but they are still made by man...

Ray,on the box i didnt see "do not use for frontal brain shots or life saving shots on buffalo so close you can smell their brand of after shave".They were all from the same lot and it was several years ago. Nothing is for sure and that what makes it so dam good. I am not the only one who has had solids peen, but as you say thee are making them better. Charlie