It's long past the time to end this

I haven't read the entire thread, but I believe the answer is here: https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/837102853

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
I haven't read the entire thread,

You should. It's quite enlightening.

Save yourself the aggravation. I just returned and spent the past few hours reading the whole mess from the past two weeks.
YUK!

Frank

Ray announced he was picking up his marbles and going home. I believe the old boy is aggravated enough to stay gone even though he's a fixture on the forums. Our loss in my humble opine...

Damn we will miss the sale of his "favourite" hunting rifle each year.

I hope he returns, and only stays short term mad. It would be the forums lose if he doesn't return. Big bore forum in particular, he contributed a lot of excellent information.

Maybe he's team roping with his kids, before winter set's in.

Scratch

After the beating he took on that string, I doubt he will return to this forum! That's sad, IMO!

Gentlemen, one can take just so much insult, and name calling from those who have an agenda before moveing out of town so to speak. I fear it has come to that with Ray.

I, for one, will miss his old TEXAS COWBOY STYLE humor, and old, Ethics based, business dealings! You don't have to like Ray, but you can absolutely trust his word!

Some of his heckelers could learn a lot from Ray, in spite of their opinion being, that they already know everything!

I can't bring myself to wade through the mess, but wish to say that I will be very sorry if Ray has left the forum for good. I always looked forward to reading his posts. I think he has a lot of good friends here. Hope he considers me one of them.

quote:

I, for one, will miss his old TEXAS COWBOY STYLE humor, and old, Ethics based, business dealings! You don't have to like Ray, but you can absolutely trust his word!

One thing I absolutely would never trust is Ray's word! It has been proven false far too many times.

And he dished out plenty of insults himself and chased other fellows off this board. Frankly I think Ray has been treated very gently in light of how he treated others over the years.

quote:

I think he has a lot of good friends here.

I think many of us respected Rays crusty opinions, again I hope his hyadis is short lived.

I really hope he does come back--I usually go by my gut instinct and that instict has always told me to listen REAL close to Ray- i feel i have learned much from reading his posts.

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
I, for one, will miss his old TEXAS COWBOY STYLE humor, and old, Ethics based, business dealings! You don't have to like Ray, but you can absolutely trust his word!

Are you serious? His "cowboy style" humor was often bullying which wouldn't be so bad if he could take it as well as he dished it out (he couldn't) and his "ethics" based business dealings were characterized by the pretty much outright misrepresentation of hunts on numerous occasions. As for people thinking they know more than Ray...Frankly, I get the impression talking to people here that MANY have MUCH more experience in a wider variety of hunting environments but are simply less vocal or commercial about it.

JMHO,

John

If that thread causes Ray to leave then he is better off being off forums. The African forum on this site is a very protected forum.

The style of that thread would not eveb raise a sweat in the Poltical forum

JohnTheGreek has gone solo plenty of times on the polictical forum with out any helpers and people investigating where he works etc

Ray is a cry baby, simple as that.

Mike

500,

You stick your nose in the Poltical forum plenty of times....would agree the thread on Pierres hunt is very mild.

Mike

Mike,

Yes, the thread about Ray ripping off Sheephunter is very mild compared to the political forums, or even compared to the Carmelo threads.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
Ray is a cry baby, simple as that.

Exactly! That thread started out being so damn polite it was sick. If I had just lost over $30K the way Sheephunter did, I would have come out with guns blazing! Perhaps to his credit, he didn't. Of course, it wasn't long before he got jumped on big time. All the "cowboy way" crap that Ray put forward as a front went right out the window as soon as it looked like his authority was being questioned. Now the lawyers have been called in. Ridiculous but very telling!
Quite honestly, I think people have just become damn tired of minding their manners around Ray while he feigns knowledge and badgers others with his "faux-bubba" bullshit.

JMO,

John

Well, folks it seems many of you know some things I don't! That isn't new, or astounding, but it is quite obvious that you guys are talking about a different string than I am. I know nothing about Sheephunter, or his hunt, If it was a North American hunt, then I wouldn't know, because I never visit the forums where those things are discussed. I know less about any hunt Ray has screwed anyone on, and I have never booked any hunt with Ray. Soooooooo, maybe I'm simply talking trough my hat on this one! That also is no surprise to me, as I like to see the good in people when ever possible. I don't know anything other than what I've read here, and what I've heard in conservations between Ray and PHs he's hunted with. I have no reason to doubt that what they say is true, so will not say they aren't. Some here may know, first hand, that all these things are untrue, And if you do then who am I to dispute your word. I will not say you are lieing, any more than I would say that about Ray.

Things like this are why I never go to a political, deer hunter's, or religious forums. There has never been a discussion on either of them. They are simply donnybrooks from start to finish, and are unwinable. It seems those who do visit those forums regularly, think everything said on any forum is an invitation to a fist fight. IMO, these things are not productive in any way, and serve no purpose that I can see!

Everyone is allowed his/her opinion, and I'll not fight to take that right away from anyone, eventhough I may disagree. With that in mind, my origenal post above IS my opinion, and it will remain so, till someone shows me evidence to the contrary. Simply saying something is so, doesn't make it so! I see no reason for that opinion to make me a whiping dog too, but if it is to be, then lock-and-load, gentlemen, but I ain't leaving!

Hey Claire, have you seen my flack jacket?

Sometimes i wonder ..?

In the "Heat" of the moment we all say and do things we sometimes later regret.

I for one have ? "fumbled the ball" on the forum more then once and have gotten alittle over heated by someones comments.

Rays been around for awhile hunting fishing Etc . Hes been blessed many times over
with being able to hunt in Africa for a wide range of game.. and he has done well

BUT.. I think ? that there are a few of use here that have forgotten .. That no matter how many game we have killed in no matter how many
places we have killed them in that things change and that were never stop learning from each other .

Maybe Ray forgot .It doesn't mean hes a bad guy.
although to tell the truth i think "Rays been
way to full of himself for years"

Its just he forgot .."We never stop learning"

I think even JohnTheGreek knows


Martin

quote:

It seems those who do visit those forums regularly, think everything said on any forum is an invitation to a fist fight. IMO, these things are not productive in any way, and serve no purpose that I can see!

Mac,

What produces outbreaks on the African forum would not generate a thread with 3 postings on Political

It is actually the African forum that likes punch ups because they are so easily set off on that forum.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

quote:

It seems those who do visit those forums regularly, think everything said on any forum is an invitation to a fist fight. IMO, these things are not productive in any way, and serve no purpose that I can see!

Mac,

What produces outbreaks on the African forum would not generate a thread with 3 postings on Political

It is actually the African forum that likes punch ups because they are so easily set off on that forum.

Mike

Mike .. lol just say 45/70 on the African forum
or big bore forum and sit back and grab some popcorn

quote:

Mike .. lol just say 45/70 on the African forum
or big bore forum and sit back and grab some popcorn

You forgot the words "lever action" as well

but all in all you hit that nail on the head!!!

Mac,

Here is the thread:

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6321043/m/837102853

Note that Ray has now deleted a bunch of his posts and his most abusive comments.

Feeding Frenzy!

quote:

Originally posted by MacD37:
Well, folks it seems many of you know some things I don't! That isn't new, or astounding, but it is quite obvious that you guys are talking about a different string than I am. I know nothing about Sheephunter, or his hunt, If it was a North American hunt, then I wouldn't know, because I never visit the forums where those things are discussed.

Mac,

If I read you correctly, you have not seen the thread on the "Hunting Reports - Africa" from Sheephunters hunt???

If that is the case, then here is a link to it: Sheephunters hunt with Ray/Pierre.

Keep in mind when reading thru the very long thread that many of the posts have later been edited and deleted by Ray. Some because they were contradictory to what he had stated on other posts, and some because Ray was downright nasty (and I guess he realized he was digging himself down into a hole...). So some of the replies given to Ray might be hard to now understand, or seem out of context. Had you seen Rays original, un-edited posts, it would have been clearer.

Oops! Looks like 500grains beat me to it...

Don't bother reading it Mac. Its a problem between Ray, Pierre, and Sheephunter. Only 2 sides of the story have been posted and about 300 other opinions from people who weren't there and don't know. Now they're bringing it over here.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Mike .. lol just say 45/70 on the African forum
or big bore forum and sit back and grab some popcorn

You forgot the words "lever action" as well

but all in all you hit that nail on the head!!!

vapodog
LOL your right 45/70 lever action

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Feeding Frenzy!

Rusty
Could i ask something off topic ..
What are you using in the 475 #2 for bullet's ?

I think that it's odd that when Ray says something negative about an outfitter or safari company that when someone says that (something about this doesn't smell right),there is no response.You could hear a pin drop. But then you get a pile of PM's by members telling you how they agree with you.So I find this thread quit refreshing. Not a feeding frenzy, just people finally getting the balls to say what is really on their minds. IMO. ITS ABOUT TIME

Paul Kawczk

quote:

Originally posted by Paul K:
I think that it's odd that when Ray says something negative about an outfitter or safari company that when someone says that (something about this doesn't smell right),there is no response.You could hear a pin drop. But then you get a pile of PM's by members telling you how they agree with you.So I find this thread quit refreshing. Not a feeding frenzy, just people finally getting the balls to say what is really on their minds. IMO. ITS ABOUT TIME

Paul Kawczk

Your not far off the mark my friend..

Martin

Rusty,

There is no feeding frenzy.

Plenty of people, myself included, have had the whole forum against them. Admittedly I might have stirred up something on the African forum.

Remember when Saeed changed the rules that only "on topic "postings could be maxe on the African forum Ray went ahead and posts a "for sale advertisement" on the African forum for a fucking deer hunt.

And that was only moved because people made a joke of the fact.

I have had bash ups with ray before as has the other Australian Karl and Ray folds like a deck of cards

But in my opinion anyone who takes the advantage of free advertising space on AR must expect that can come with a downside. If they don't expect that then they are certified fuckwit of the highest order.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Paul K:
I think that it's odd that when Ray says something negative about an outfitter or safari company that when someone says that (something about this doesn't smell right),there is no response.You could hear a pin drop. But then you get a pile of PM's by members telling you how they agree with you.So I find this thread quit refreshing. Not a feeding frenzy, just people finally getting the balls to say what is really on their minds. IMO. ITS ABOUT TIME

Paul Kawczk

This has been the case with Atkinson for a long time. Only a few members were willing to post something he and "his hood" didn't like. A lot more went on behind the scenes on PMs.

The blatant hyprocracy and vitriol (before being edited) of Atkinson in the "Sheephunter Safari" threads finally brought a lot of it out into the open. But even more out in PMs.

In future with regard to people "re-editing" their comments it is very wise to consider using the QUOTATION features in one's posts.

Something Paul H and GeorgeS will remember was a situation with Atkinson on HuntAmerica that revolved around a hunt.

Swamp deleted the posts to support Ray.

In my opinion Saeed is close to that stage.

DRG did agree with me a few months ago that my original ptrediction was correct, that is, this site would go down hill with the influx of HA people.

Mike

While it is sad that he's gone. I have never seen one person give out so much insult as Ray.

Even Johan and 500Grains have their limits.

There are way too many people on this site, that will cut your throat for the chance to make you look bad.

quote:

Originally posted by D99:
While it is sad that he's gone. I have never seen one person give out so much insult as Ray.

Even Johan and 500Grains have their limits.

There are way too many people on this site, that will cut your throat for the chance to make you look bad.

I would have to say that in away your right ?
kinda i have had my run ins with most of the folks here i am so easy to get along with ...
Ya right ... Ray just needs to ? calm down a bit .. It was .. nice to read some of his posts
from trips he took ....

adding the bad and the good together .. all in all i would say Ray added somthing to the AR forum.. some bad some good some great ..
i think we all do that from time to time though .. I will miss not being able to call him .. King Ray

Martin

Martin,
I use .488 Woodleighs. The caliber is 475 #2 Jeffery. It is used in a W. J. Jeffery double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty:
Martin,
I use .488 Woodleighs. The caliber is 475 #2 Jeffery. It is used in a W. J. Jeffery double rifle.

Now i remmber Duh .. sorry guy i guess i forgot
...

What kind of group/group's are you getting
I had to sell off my that 475 single

... Nice rifle though Rusty .. very nice .

Martin

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:
Something Paul H and GeorgeS will remember was a situation with Atkinson on HuntAmerica that revolved around a hunt.

Swamp deleted the posts to support Ray.

Mike

I don't remember that one, Mike, but then Swamp was prone to deleting threads and even his own posts when a new advertiser (about whom he'd made negative statements) came on board.

George