Oldsarge:

I believe I was the one mentioning pricing on the Pedersoli's. I have seen two with fitted cases go on Gunbroker in the last couple of weeks, one at $1600 and one at $1550. There is one there now sitting at $1500. All three in 45-70. I cannot speak to their condition or the quality of the sellers. Of course, the correct way to buy a double is to see and shoot it yourself before you buy, but the current market price as set at auction seems to be in the $1600 range.

Tonto:

They do make the Kodiak in 9.3X74R. I bought the only used one I have seen in that caliber (technically my wife bought it for me). The new guns are getting more expensive because of the slide of the dollar against the euro. I think the 45-70 is cheaper to shoot as well as more readily available.

Scott,
to refresh your memory, I didn't ask you for editorial comment on velocities...

Quote:

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. Name calling (resorting to attacking a person rather than the arguement) are a definitive mark of either being outside one's reasons or outside one's depth.


jeffe

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Yes, scott, I truely am pathetic... poor me... i just can't seem to build enough rifles MYSELF and then share MY results, and you know, be open to INPUT...

yep, poor me

jeffe

jeffeosso,



I posted the facts as you requested, then stated that they represented the EXACT opposite of WHAT THEY DID, and you still didn't see it! As I have stated before, you should learn to READ!



At least GH and Dan got you straightened out. They said the EXACT same thing I had! Perhaps someday you will LEARN that the ol' ASS_CLOWN ain't quite as dumb and ignorant about huntin' and firearms as some here "think" he is.

Quote:

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GH,

<DUH! on me>



shesh... i shouldn't talk about ting i don't know alot about..



yes, once and for all, i agree that a smaller case head has less bolt thrust, at the same PSI... I got this wrapped all around, arguing with scott....



I MEANT to say and prove (poor job) that a smaller case head can have a higher pressure, at the same bolt thrust...



(goes back into the shop)



<grin>



Can someone send me a dunce cap on this one?



jeffe

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Gotta!! You should follow your own advise, seriously!

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shesh... i shouldn't talk about ting i don't know alot about..

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You should also take heed to my statements about what a Pedersoli double rifle can and cannot take!



ASS_CLOWN

The Kodiak in 9.3x74 is certainly a more generally useable boring than the 45/70, at least worldwide. If they were anywhere near as common as the larger caliber, I'd be on the lookout, myself. However, if the reason for having a double rifle is to use as a "last resort" than the 9.3 isn't the choice. As a "general" rifle, I'd rather have either a bolt or a good falling block, saving the double for the times when things go south. Other double rifle fans just want to shoot double rifles on everything being of the faith that the only proper firearms have two barrels beside each other. My belief is weaker. Still, a matched pair of double rifles in 9.3 and .450 NE might make me break into a sweat.

Right now, I'm committed to what I feel is a very fair deal, but won't discuss it until I have it completely done.

Oldsarge,

The last time I was at Cabela's in Dundee, Michigan, (about three weeks ago) they had both a Kodiak MkIV in 45/70 and 9.3X74R. Each rifle was $2199.99.

Contact them if you want one. I am sure they have several there, they usually do.

ASS_CLOWN

Scott,
g's thanks for the attention...

now, let's talk about that 45/120 you hand reamed, as axel?

jeffe

I agree that a 9.3X74R is not the best last-resort gun, but it makes a pretty good "entry-level" double -- one that can be truly useful for the things I normally hunt in Texas and is still powerful enough to take larger game. I also was concerned that I would be unhappy with a 45-70 if I didn't rechamber it, and that if I did the expense would go up and perhaps re-regulation would be needed. I may never be satisfied until I have a double with a bigger hole in the front, but I may find out that doubles are not for me, and if so I have invested less. None of that explains why I keep checking the used gun market for other, larger bore doubles -- at the end of the day, certainly with doubles, emotion and not reason accounts for some of the decision making.

Good luck with your efforts -- I look forward to hearing how it works out.

I would like to add a little to this discussion.
My brother had an early Kodiak in 45/70. I have a 9,3x74R Chapuis, and a British 450 No2, I have also hunted with a 45/70.
My brothers Kodiak shot very well with all the 45/70 loads we shot in it including Cor-Bon as well as stout handloads. As a rifle for North America, with in its range limitations it is excellent. I would not be afraid to hunt Kodiak Brown Bear with it.
The 9,3x74R may just be the best allround double rifle caliber there is. Especially if you scope the double. I have made shots to 300 yards on game [with witnesses]. I would prefer it in Africa to the 45/70 if buff or elephant are on the menu. However,I would not be "afraid" to hunt buff with Garrett 45/70 ammo in the Kodiak.
The 450 No2 is "bad to the bone" on Buff and Elephant. My PH was very impressed with it on my June ZIM trip.
I cannot help but think that a Kodiak in 450 No2 would have a LOT of recoil. The people who have done the conversion need to comment on this.
Loads from A-Square, the only source I know of pressure data for the Nitro Expresses, does not have a single load over 26,800 CUP, well within the strength of the Kodiak.
I just worry about the recoil of a 450 No2 Kodiak.
One thing to consider is that everyone I know that has converted a Kodiak has become a double rifle shooter and acquired a "proper" big bore double, either British or new made.
I recommend you get the 45/70 Kodiak, shoot the dickens out of it, keep it for your NA fun gun and when you realize you really do like doubles get a "proper" DG double rifle.
If you no longer feel the need for the Kodiak 45/70 just sell it to the next convert.
The DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY is always open to new members.
"Those who have used a double rifle... and liked it....Never go back to BOLT RIFLE TRASH again.

N E 450 No2,
Thanks for the comments. I have waffled back and forth on this issue since buying the Kodiak. I guess I should go ahead and either save up for a proper rifle or sell some other rifles to buy one. I just bought a EAA .30-06 Under/Over rifle from CDNN for $299 and as crude as it is it sure is fun! The Kodiak is fun to shoot now but I don't doubt that it kick a great deal more in 450 No.2. Maybe I will just save up and buy one of the better made European Under/Overs in 9.3 for now and leave the Kodiak...
Jason

Well, let's see. First, what does the Kodiak weigh? A rifle of 10.25 lbs is sufficient for the .450 Rigby/Lott/Watts, etc. so if the Kodiak weighs around 10 lbs and has a good fat pad, it should be fine. If it doesn't weight that much, hello mercury buffers! I don't have the discretionary income to pay for a "good British double" unless I give up hunting for three years. Fat chance, that!

Oldsarge:

Call Jack Huntington, or sell your gun to me, cheap

Sharps 54:

You really need to give me that gun. You don't need such a heavy caliber...







s

Socrates
I think you are right about not needing a double in 45 caliber but that doesn't keep me from wanting it! I may just wait and save up for a factory double to come along. The 45-70 is fun to shoot, I need to take it hog hunting so I can justify leaving it in .45-70!
Jason

Mounting a scope on a double is like mounting cow horns on the hood of a Cadillac. (Except that a double rifle is more classy than a Cadillac.)

Dan that is particularly true when said scope is mounted on a hammer double rifle! Truly bad form!

ASS_CLOWN

Heck, much as I hate to say this, the conversion is a piece of cake.

Jack Huntington let me fondle his. Gun weight, as you that have them know, is sufficent, around 10 pounds. Factory loads from Kynoch are 38K with 480 grains at 2180(S fondles his Nitro Express 450 #2 round in his desk drawer) it's head stamped 450 Kynoch.

Don't like the stock recoil pad. Red, and not very comfortable, but, it won't catch on your clothes on the way up. Gun swings up like a fine shotgun, with perfect balance.

If you are REALLY intrested, call Jack at:
(530)268-6877

He's a great gunsmith, and this conversion is one of his favorites.

s
PS
Wish I had 2500 laying around, I'd grab that 45/70.

I think the 450 N2 makes a wonderful home defense rifle

s

Now that is encouraging! Of course, all this does is give me another possible dangerous game hunt to look forward to. Guess I'll have to pick up a part-time job! Maybe if I light enough candles in the cathedral, Ray will come up with another PAC elephant for poquito dinero so I can try it out . . . once I get the whole thing finished . . . and NOT in 45/70 in spite of the fans' howls!

Sarge,

I hold you personally responsible!!!!!

Because of this thread (and thanks to Charles_Helm) I finally got pushed into buying a used Pedersoli. Actually, I have been meaning to do this for a long time to have a lower priced double for lots of "playing" at the range.

My intent is to rechamber to 450x3.25" NE and use 400 to 480 grain bullets at about 2,000 fps (if they will "regulate"). This should provide good power within a reasonable pressure range in the Pedersoli, not to mention a lot of fun.

I will still take my 450/400 to Africa, but I can see hunting in the US with this conversion . And I still hold you responsible .

Good luck on your upcoming hunt!!!!

Jim

Jack has a trick for telling if the rifle will regulate, or not. Give him a call...

s

Why thanks, Jim old bean, decentest thing anyone's said t'me all day, what? After I get mine purchased, converted, regulated and shootin' we'll have t'compare notes. Not any chance of yer comin' t'California in the next year is there? 't be a pleasure t'take the hammerguns out and see what they'd do. Mebbe I'll get a chance t'join in the Double Rifle Piggie Shoot down Texas way, some year. Lookin' forward t'seein' all you chaps, don'tcherknow.

Socrates
You are not helping with my problem of being indecisive!
I will give Jack a call tomorrow to talk about the conversion. Thanks for the point of contact though!
Jason

Jason:

I loved his.

s

Socrates
I talked to him today. He seems to be a nice an knowledgeable man. He advised @ $250 for the rechambering and then another $200 to modify the extractors. He is happy with his and plans to take it to Africa. He advised the "trick" is to see if it will regulate with lighter bullets, say 350s, at 2100 fps, if it will it should do well with the heavier ones. I guess my doom is set...
Jason