If you followed my last threads you'll remember me saying that the rounds in the magazine should not be damaged by recoil in order for them to shoot well.This particular rifle was damaging the cases and accuracy was terrible.The last thing I tried seems to solve this issue.I filed down the walls of the magazine and then sanded them as smooth as I could.I wanted to make sure the follower moved freely up and down under recoil.I ordered some polishing felts and madrels along with grit paste from Brownells and will soon polish the magazine.I checked the trim lenght of my cases and only loaded two in the magazine and one in the chamber-I did not top off a full magazine.I did this to make sure my rounds had enough room in the mag for the shock absorber- like follower to do its job and prevent the cases from packing against each other.The results where excellent.The cases did not show any signs of deforming or denting after recoil.The group was not bad.I used the fixed rear sight.I got a streak of copper fouling in the bore that I can't seem to remove.I feel the group could have been tighter.[URL= ]100yds offhand/open sights/Ruger lott/500gr Hornady DGS molly coated solids.[/URL]

Shootaway

In my opinion, that's some damned good shooting anyway you cut it pal! I promise you now, I could not shoot irons off the bench that good! Here you are off hand doing it. Very good.

Don't worry about that copper fouling, that don't mean NOTHING--this is big bores, don't have to clean them and worry over them like you do rat rifles!

Michael

I think you guys have not got the word form the Expert yet. Your guns need to do a mimumin 1/2MOA to hunt with. This gun should be keeped in the rack.

Fat Boy

You must be shooting rats with small bores I reckon?

We don't shoot rats and such here.

Michael

Good shooting. EXCELLENT shooting!!!

Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Thanks.

Thanks? That's it? That's the best you can do--Thanks? JHC, Georgie! Surely you can do better than that?

HEH

Michael

I hope the rifle shoots like this next time I go back to the range.It should-I am going to keep things just the way they are and hope they do.Hey Michael,what is JHC and when are you going back to hunt in africa?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
If you followed my last threads you'll remember me saying that the rounds in the magazine should not be damaged by recoil in order for them to shoot well.This particular rifle was damaging the cases and accuracy was terrible.

If you can see the effect that dented cases have on accuracy in your off-hand shooting with a big bore then you are doing much, much better than the rest of us......

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
I hope the rifle shoots like this next time I go back to the range.It should-I am going to keep things just the way they are and hope they do.Hey Michael,what is JHC and when are you going back to hunt in africa?

HEH, SHootaway, kinda a ugly saying of mine, but I did learn it from a Canadian many years ago

JHC--Jesus H Christ!

[URL= ]458 lott case[/URL]

Shootaway
That couldn't have happened while in the magazine with a bullet in place. Had to have happened after the cartridge was fired.

Maybe I'm missing something?

It does not happen when the cartridges are shot one at a time.All the cases are dented exactly in the same place and in the way as the one pictured.This issue has been going on for a long time.The only explanation I have is that the recoil is causing them to hit against the bolt.I think that small triangular dent is caused by the small hole on the bolt-the one you can see the firing pin through.

shootaway

The issue with the case mouth dented---that's when you extract and eject-vigorously is it not?

Headed across the pond in June. Wife has business there with one of her houses, and visit relatives, that sort of thing.

I was trying to get some in season quota--that did not turn out well, bad time to want to shoot buffalo. I originally thought I would get 3-4 bull buffalo, and 5-10 cows, what I got offered was 1 bull, 2 cows, and throw in a tuskless elephant--I told my guys in Zim I would not get on the airplane for that if they gave them to me. So right now as it is I have an option on 5-10 cows, and maybe a couple of bulls--then will be testing on plains game after that. Normally I wait until end of season, and take left over quota, but since I had to be there in June that messed things up a bit. But also, you never can count on what is going to be left over either? Sometimes nothing! Back on 2007 I had a pretty good shoot, one area I had two elephants--move over to another and ended up having 1 bull buffalo and 5 cows left on quota--but when I arrived for the buffalo there was only 2 cows on quota, which disturbed me a bit, and then too, there was zero plains game left on quota--nothing, so some of the shooting I had planned to do on zebra and things like that did not happen at all!

So................

Michael

Michael,the cases are damaged before they are ejected.You can see the damaged,loaded and unfired case in the magazine after the first fired round is ejected.The feedback we get from your hunts will serve to better our hunting skills.But remember,your results should be reported as they are and never selected to support a preference or favorable outcome.I believe there are many shooting related things we still need to learn.It is nice to be able to know why things work and used that to our benefit.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Michael,the cases are damaged before they are ejected.You can see the damaged,loaded and unfired case in the magazine after the first fired round is ejected.

So you're saying that the case mouth has that triangular dent while the bullet is still in place?????

No way. What am I missing?


Maybe next time you shoot you can make it do that again and take a picture of the dented, unfired, round.

Let's say your right.What am I missing?

If the dent is happening to a loaded round in the magazine why isnt it fireformed out when the round is fired, which I expect the pictured one has been. Something else is going on here.
In the pic of the fired case can I see a partially thickened or rolled back mouth from half way through the dent, that is, about 12 o'clock back round to nearly 6 o'clock.

Von Gruff.

IMO,fireforming won't do miracles.I know that my resizing and expanding dies won't fix it.The case is damgaged to the point where it is nearly cracked or broken.

So is the bullet being dented in the neck of the loaded cartridge as well. That is going to take a lot of deforming.

Von Gruff.

Shootaway

Quit pulling their legs---That's a dent from ejection, simple. That can be sorted out in a half second with needle nose pliers, I do it all the time. Size and load, end of story. That can't happen in the magazine with a bullet in the case mouth? George, I can take a 375 HH or 416 Remington--18 gr bullseye, toilet tissue, corn meal, toilet tissue on top, and iron you out the prettiest 458 Lott or 470 Capstick cases you ever worked with, much less shooting a bullet with higher pressures will do? Come on, you are pulling these guys legs--

Michael

No ejection can damage a case to this degree.I've dry fired this rifle using dummy rds with the same set up hundreds of times without issues.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
No ejection can damage a case to this degree.I've dry fired this rifle using dummy rds with the same set up hundreds of times without issues.

Shootaway

You are wrong, very wrong. When I work the bolt, it's extremely "vigorous" to say the least, unless of course I am doing pressure tests or something like that. When testing feed and function I am doing everything I can to slam that rifle as hard as I can--on ejection, that is easy to do a case mouth like that, very easy, I can do do it right now repeatably over and over. That's no damage to worry about! Of course you have NOT done it with dummy rounds (dummy), they have bullets in them--the case mouth can't get dented with a bullet in it!

M

Shootaway, you are sniffing too much of that stuff you scrub the bores with buddy, put a lid on that stuff!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Von Gruff:
So is the bullet being dented in the neck of the loaded cartridge as well. That is going to take a lot of deforming.

Von Gruff.

I would imagine the bullet is being damaged as well.I don't think I ever brought an unfired round back from the range for inspection.If I have it was shot the next time around.At first I thought that it was the necks bumping into the feeding ramp edge under recoil.Then when I opened the floorplate and checked the way the rounds where loaded,I saw that this was ulikely.One thing is for sure and that is I will no longer load three rds in the mag and one in the chamber.From know on there will only be two in the magazine.It seems that my other Ruger lott is also dented them in the same place but to a lesser degree.I believe that accuracy equals two in the magazine.From now on,I will always make sure that there is enough room in the magazine of ANY rifle I use to insure that cases will not be damaged.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Shootaway, you are sniffing too much of that stuff you scrub the bores with buddy, put a lid on that stuff!!!!

Maybe you can explain why my cases don't dent when I reduce the charge behind the 500grainer below 2200fps?

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
No ejection can damage a case to this degree.

I have to agree with Michael458 that the dents are from ejection. I get similar dents on cases when they hit the concrete flooring at one of the ranges I shoot at, on multiple calibers.

quote:

Originally posted by 375fan:

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
No ejection can damage a case to this degree.

I have to agree with Michael458 that the dents are from ejection. I get similar dents on cases when they hit the concrete flooring at one of the ranges I shoot at, on multiple calibers.

So do I,but these are not the dents that I am talking about.My case necks bend when they fall out of my hands and hit the floor too.

The lesson to the story is that a well spaced magazine makes for accurate shooting.

[/QUOTE]Maybe you can explain why my cases don't dent when I reduce the charge behind the 500grainer below 2200fps?[/QUOTE]

Shootaway

Sit there and tell me with a straight face, when you fire a round and eject the empty--You look in the magazine at the rounds that are still in the magazine, and you see the case and the bullet dented like you show in the photo? OK, test #1---go to the range, load the magazine, close the bolt on a round, fire it, open very slowly, catching the empty cartridge in your hand before it ejects--show me the case. Look in your magazine, and take out all the rounds in the magazine, then show me the dented case and bullet still together! If they are not dented (which they will not be) then load and fire another round--But instead of gently taking it out, snatch the living hell out of that bolt all the way to the rear until you cannot take it further, let the case fly and then show me that case!

And put a damned lid on that stuff you are sniffing!

HEH HEH

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The lesson to the story is that a well spaced magazine makes for accurate shooting.

Shootaway

The lesson to the story is throw that POS away that you are shooting and find yourself a WInchester M70!!!!!!!

Shootaway- I've told you time and time again to orient the wood screws holding your Shooting Helemt to the stock WITH THE POINTY ENDS AWAY FROM YOUR HEAD!-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

Maybe you can explain why my cases don't dent when I reduce the charge behind the 500grainer below 2200fps?[/QUOTE]

Shootaway

Sit there and tell me with a straight face, when you fire a round and eject the empty--You look in the magazine at the rounds that are still in the magazine, and you see the case and the bullet dented like you show in the photo? OK, test #1---go to the range, load the magazine, close the bolt on a round, fire it, open very slowly, catching the empty cartridge in your hand before it ejects--show me the case. Look in your magazine, and take out all the rounds in the magazine, then show me the dented case and bullet still together! If they are not dented (which they will not be) then load and fire another round--But instead of gently taking it out, snatch the living hell out of that bolt all the way to the rear until you cannot take it further, let the case fly and then show me that case!

And put a damned lid on that stuff you are sniffing!

HEH HEH

Michael[/QUOTE]If the cases in the magazine with the bullets in place or in other words-loaded rounds where not dent then I would not even mention it.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway- I've told you time and time again to orient the wood screws holding your Shooting Helemt to the stock WITH THE POINTY ENDS AWAY FROM YOUR HEAD!-Rob

OK ,I forgot.

Shootaway

Well buddy, this is one ya gonna have to show me! I never in my life even heard of such a thing, much less seen it! If you have a dent like what you show in the photo in a loaded case, then your bullet is smashed too, gonna have to show me that one! You using those "Rubber" bullets again????

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Shootaway- I've told you time and time again to orient the wood screws holding your Shooting Helemt to the stock WITH THE POINTY ENDS AWAY FROM YOUR HEAD!-Rob

OK ,I forgot.

Ahhhh, JHC--I shoulda known better! I forgot about the damned helmet!!!

[URL= ]1[/URL][URL= ]2[/URL]

SHootaway

That has to be happening after or during ejection, how can that happen in the magazine, with a bullet in the case? Can't. You lost me!

M

You've probably seen what recoil can do to a 500gr bullet nose and what the bullet noses can do to the front wall of a magazine.Now,why can't rounds stacked close together smash upwards against the bolt too.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
That has to be happening after or during ejection, how can that happen in the magazine, with a bullet in the case? Can't.

+1

No way that can happen with the bullet in place, short of hitting it with a hammer. And even if you were able to dent a loaded round in such a manner, the dent would be ironed out as the bullet let the case during firing and further ironed out due to the 50k PSI that forces the case against the chamber walls.