Now that my wife and I have decided to go with the 404 Jeffery and 10.75x68 Mauser calibers for our guns.Mine will be the bigger one .

We are looking for any articles about these two cartridges and or guns so chambered.

I have scans of 3 articles on the 404:

The 404 Jeffery, by Gregor Woods. From man Magazine.

The Workhorse (about the 404), by Harold Wolf
Not sure what magazine it's from.

Self-Made Dream Rifle, by Svein Solli.
Again not sure what magazine it's from.

I would like to get a copy of Reloading the 404 Jeffery, from African-Hunter.com.
But their web site is not down at the moment. I have a copy printed off, but it's in Idaho and I'm in Montana for a while .

If anyone has the article down loaded and they could send me it would be appreciated.

If any one would like a copy of the articles I have I would be happy to send them one.

If anyone has an article on the 404 Jeffery or 10.75x68, we would really like to get a scan of it. Can be sent to abosely@stignatius.net
Allen

Try this link for the African Hunter magazine article.

http://web.archive.org/web/20051212033352/www.african-h...the__404_jeffery.htm

(At times this web site can be slow.)

Cheers!
-Bob F.

Thanks Bob,

It worked like a charm! I tried to go to african-hunter.com but it didn't work. But this one did. Thanks

Allen

Allen,
Drop me a PM with exactly what your after ... topical articles, reload data, build-ups etc... and I'll see what I have.
Cheers...
Con

Allen:

I sent you an email last night with a number of articles on the 10.75.

Did you receive it?

RCG

Yes RCG, I will send those out this eve.

Allen

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
Thanks Bob,

It worked like a charm! I tried to go to african-hunter.com but it didn't work. But this one did. Thanks

Allen

Just FYI: I used the "Internet Archive Wayback Machine" to retrieve the article.

http://www.archive.org/web/web.php
"Browse through 85 billion web pages archived from 1996 to a few months ago."

Cheers!
-Bob F.

The Svein Solli article is originally from VÃ¥penjournalen, but it was printed in Hatari Times. I met him once and he was a great guy that did much for hunting and shooting up here in Norway with his writing and testing of various weapons and components.

In Vapentidningen, a Swedish magazine is a artickle by Jens Perto , who also has a .404 Jeffery which he has used much. I got a 404 last year and likes it very much.

Try cast bullets in it for cheap practice.

(perhaps a little offtopic, but it wil lsave lots of money.)

I have a 10.75 Type B sporter. It's OK but if I were starting from scratch I would build a 404. It can also be built on a standard length action, load it up or down depending on how much power/recoil you want. The 10.75 is a little marginal for bigger game.

Con you have a PM.

Thanks Bob. I did not know about that resource.
I shall now go on an info treasure hunt!

Allen

Allen,
Article on 10.75 and 404Jeff should be in your email box. I have a 3-5 part series on a local gunsmith (Ron Webb) putting a 404Jeff together on a Parker Hale action that I'll try digging up as well over the weekend.
Cheers...
Con

Allen,

I've read your threads and find your assessment & selection of these two cartridges (404J & 10.74x68) extraordinary interesting and would like to ask.....?

Firstly and not a query; I've run across countless used 10.75x68 Mauser rifles here in The Fatherland.

Virtually every Gunsmith who has had a 10.75x68 rifle For Sale on their used rifle racks has qualified the potential sale with "The cartridge was/is consdered "marginal for Big Game". Ugh!

Did I read somewhere (Who knows? I only read about rifles, cartridges & hunting anyway.....just can't catalog it all) that wasn't this cartridge's performance that eventually led to it's downfall/displeasure/obscurity due to the poor quality bullets that were loaded/mannufactured for it?

I think the cartridge is, well; REALLY cool! It's certainly a large cartrtidge in a Mauser action but then again? Why Not? Can current/modern componets afford better performance?

Allen
Can you fax me a copy of the Harold Wolf article or e-mail me the link to it. I think that issue is sold out and I would really lIke to read it. 435-755-6842 echolslegend@comcast.net
Many Thanks
D'Arcy Echols

Gerry,

This is based on what I have read after doing some research so far.

The 10.75x68 at one time had a either a poorly designed bullet or at least was not the correct bullet for the cartridge and Big Game and got a bad reputation (poor penetration).

But since then there are a some good bullets in the 347, 350 & 400 grain range that perform very well at the velocities attainable in the 10.75x68 today.

Again based on reading others experiences with the 10.75x68 using current powders. It' not a problem to get 2350fps with a 347/350gn bullet. One source I read listed that they were getting 2400 fps.

So it seems to me that a well constructed .423 caliber, 347 or 350gn bullet at 2350 fps would be a pretty good Big Game round.

Again, based on reading/research that the 10.75x68 with a 400gn bullet will get 2150 possibly even 2200 fps.

While 2150fps is not exactly a barn burner as compared to a hot loaded 404 Jeffery or a .416 Rigby. It is the same velocity, caliber and bullet weight as the 450-400 and that's an accepted Big Game gun.

There's quite a few experienced hunters that would have no worries about standing in front of an irritated Elephant with a
450-400 ie. a 400gn .423 caliber bullet at 2150fps.

Woodleigh makes a soft point and a solid .423cal 347gn bullet specifically for the 10.75x68 and a 350gn soft and of course a soft and solid in 400gn intended for the 404 Jeffery. I think the cannelure positioning is main difference between the 347 and 350 gn bullets (to be verified with Woodleigh). The velocity the 10.75x68 with a 400gn bullet falls into the recommended velocity range of the 400gn bullets
for the 404 Jeffery

So for my wife a 347/350 gn bullet at 2300 to 2350 fps should do any thing she wants to get done. plus we can shoot cast 300gn bullets for play. If we felt we needed to we can step up to a 400gn at 2150fps.

It's just such a neat old cartridge with an interesting history, and looks like an African Big Game cartridge just slightly scaled down. Lay in a bunch of Horneber cases and we're set.

Good grief, after reading this reply it's as if you ask me what time it is and I tell you how I think they build watches .

Allen

Allen & Friends

I too am anxiously awaiting a licence for a 10.75 x68 I bought from a friend.

It's a beutiful, original Oberndorf no.117282 built on a double square bridge action around 1930.

I fired a couple of rounds with it with RWS 347gr ammo, and it gives a very generous push, quite different from the "whack" of my Sako .375 H&H. You feel that it's more gun, but somehow not vicious if you know what I mean.

I have every confidence that with hand loads it will do whatever a .404 can.(Or, before I start a major debate let me qualify that: The difference between it and the .404 is small enough that it's better to concentrate on the shooter's ability which, when the chips are down, is what really matters)

I'm very glad to see so many people giving this calibre another chance!

Big Bore Assoc. Southern Africa

Stephen,
Loaded to modern pressures the 10.75 will match British velocities for the 404Jeffery ... I also fail to see how that can be considered "bad". Mind you I see the 10.75 in a different light ... perfect against large soft-skinned game and adequate against thick-skinned game. Maybe a better all-rounder than the 375H&H?
Cheers...
Con

Well stirred Con, but no, not a better ALL rounder.

The .375 comes into the all round category at the lower bullet weights at higher velocity for a fairly genuine "flat-shooter" which I don't believe the 10.75 will do. It will always be a bit of a mortar trajectory.

Allen B,
Your spot on in your assessment...I have found that most folks that assess the 10.75x68 arrive at their decisions without ever shooting it or killing anything with it...Its hardly border line on DG, well within the good side..A 400 gr. bullet at 2100 FPS made the .404 famous by the old time hunters that had a bit more experience than todays slaves to the written page...

The 350 gr. Barnes HP at 2350 FPS or better is a real killer of anything short of elephant...

You can easily have a 8 Lb. rifle and the recoil is such that most can handle it just fine, and walking in the Late Oct. and early Nov. heat, a light rifle comes in mighty handy..

It is about the best ladies and youngster caliber that I can think off...

It is a fact that you can duplicate it with a .404 Jefferys, but it is really difficult to find anyone that can convert a standard Mauser to a .404 and make it feed 110%..the bottom metal almost needs to built from scratch, and custom bottom is not available, although a few will sell you 416 Bottom metal, but it is not worth spit for a 404. If you intended to shoot full throatle 404s then you don't want a rifle of less than 9.5 lbs IMO...

The only draw back IMO, is brass can be hard to find from time to time and who knows when or if they will discontinue it...It is a borderline wildcat..Another option based on Wildcats, but one that would be easy to load would be a 404/338 or a 404/375 Ruger on a std. Mauser action, and have a drop box to boot...At least you would have available brass from now on..

I am almost completeing a 416/375 Ruger and its looking really nice, got all the bells and whistles on it..A 404/375 Ruger will be my next project..Either of these could be loaded down to 2150 FPS and be about perfect, but still a wildcat..A factory .375 Ruger is another option, and a good one IMO, and it too could be loaded down with a 250 BX at 2350 FPS or something on that order...

Then again the 10.75 x 68 is a viable option for the guy that has everything, or wants something a little different, its truly nostalgic in caliber, and one gets a little more knowledge and experience by using these kinds of calibers..Its for the experimentor and the curious, and that adds to the fun IMO....

Just some suggestions and opinions of my own for whatever they are worth, having used and hunted DG with the caliber, and enjoyed it immensley...

Allen,
Thanks for the articles you emailed to me. I've tried to respond twice, but for some reason my email keeps kicking back. I'll try again.

Thanks!

Adam

Allen, the 347 gr Woodleigh bullet for the 10.75x68 is actually .424", wheras the 350 gr and 400 gr are presumably .423.
In my Walther barreled 404 (Walthers are on the tight side) i ran into pressure problems with the 347 gr bullets; couldnt get above 2400 with RL 15, 81 gr I believe. I get the same velocity without pressure signs using the 400 gr woodleigh. I suspect its the .001 diameter difference plus the walther barrel.
PM me if you want reloading data on the 404

Allen,
Did you get the first two articles? Just found a test report with load data for the Parker Hale factory 404Jeffery from the early 90's.

Now someone else PM'd me for the 10.75 article ... but I lost the PM. If you've contacted me for an article please re PM your details.
Cheers...
Con

Con,
Yes I got the first two.
Thanks,

Allen

Here are some good thread links I've saved over the years!

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=876105802

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=858108086

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=410107912

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=1411043&m=222102343

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=368103362

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=491108862

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=349106242

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=4711043&m=727105842

I like my 10,75x68, I have not hunted DG with it but would not, with modern bullets, feel underarmed.
I am shooting old DWM 347 grn SN and plan to reload with 320 grn GS custom HV bullets, when I get them .
I have a long barrel 27.6" (70cm) and should get + 2400 That should be enough for most game.
I hope that this load will make the rifle a bit more flat shooting.

Here are some pictures of my 10,75x68 and a video clip of me shooting it.
It is a Mauser made in 1909 and the balance is just perfect.

Cheers,

André

Thanks all for your contributions, obviously lots of great insight. As stated earlier I find this cartridge VERY intruiging. I really like the idea of using all the available space in a Standard Length action, too.

As a Leftie such a standard length L/H action even in a Mauser CF varaint is always alot easier to come across and less expensive than a Magnum.

Oh, well, Ya just never know what's in the cards when the Wheels start tuurning. I've sorta got a picture in my mind of a combination American/Tuetonic style with rounded pistol grip, side panels and little bit heftier forearm to accomodate that medium weight barrel with barrel band front sight & swivel, single blade fixed rear sight and even perhaps a set of EAW Pivot Mounts that ought to withstand the recoil, too......oh, well, you get the gist.

Jeffery D,
Nice shooting irons you have there

Nice thing about the original 404 Jefferys and the 10.75x68 loadings is about any available bullet will work very well indeed on any animal due to the slower velocities they create...

I have found the 347 gr. woodleighs , the 350 gr. Barnes X work great with perfect expansion every time on buffalo..The same can be said for the 400 gr. bullets I have used such as the 400 gr. Woodleigh softs and solids and the Nothforks performed to perfection in SP, flat nose solids and cup points..also the GS Customs bullets..The difference in bullet size of .423 and .424 etc. is of no importance in accuracy or any other reason...

At the lower velocities all bullets I used were great for accuracy and performance on game.

Ray,

Just wondering here, but did you ever have an opportunity to work up some loads with the 400-gr. Swift A-Frame in your 10.75x68? That seems like a legitimate big game combination.

/

My old DWM ammo with 347 grn SN is a bit slower then stated in the post by Alf. I shoot 40 rounds last night and the fastest was 2165 fps, the slowest was 2132 fps.
They where shot from a the African mauser with a 27,6" (70 cm) barrel.

I got the GS bullets and will post test results when I have them.

Cheers,

André

quote:

Originally posted by AllenBosely:
Again based on reading others experiences with the 10.75x68 using current powders. It' not a problem to get 2350fps with a 347/350gn bullet. One source I read listed that they were getting 2400 fps.

So it seems to me that a well constructed .423 caliber, 347 or 350gn bullet at 2350 fps would be a pretty good Big Game round.

Again, based on reading/research that the 10.75x68 with a 400gn bullet will get 2150 possibly even 2200 fps.

It's pretty easy to get 2400fps from a 340gr-350gr bullet in the 404j. I have run the 350gr Woodleigh to 2600fps w/ no pressure signs. I setled on a 340grNF @ 2500fps for a PG load. Recoil is moderate & it's pretty flat shooting to 300yds. The 380gr-400gr softs move along at a leisurely 2200fps but you could get more, it's just that recoil goes up quite abit when you pass 2250fps. It's a great old cartridge that is even better w/ todays bullets. Even at a sedate 2200fps, the big softs kill very well. I wish Barnes would have made their TSX in 350gr-360gr wt. The 400grTSXK is awfull long.

Because of it,s compact size I thought very seriously about haveing one built quite a while ago...... Decided against it for reasons that are mostly no longer valid .. The only concern I would have now would be the minimum shoulder for head spaceing .But if the rifle has a good chamber it would be a very potent round ....4k ft lbs ...I would be suprised to see much difference between it and the 404 on game ........ This is a good thread .....

Pinot,
I have not used the Swift bullets in the 10.75x68...

I have used the 347 and 400 gr. woodleighs, the 350 gr. Barnes X and the GS Customs bullets...

Alf,
I understand what you are quoting, but I will add to your post that other factors can enhance or take away from your post...One being bullet construction and the other being velocity. In this case it probably is localized to bullet construction only as the velocity is just barely there...

The Woodleigh 400 gr. bullets perform to perfection in the 10.75x68 and are the preferred bullet by some of the Australians that are fond of this caliber according to Harold Wolf, who I consider very knowledgablel about such things, and they have used it extensively on those big Aussie buffalo according to him, they say it expands the right amount and kills well, That is the same experience I have had with it on Cape Buffalo...

The 350 gr. old Barnes X's and the GS Customs light bullets also perform well on Buffalo at about 2350 FPS or so and of course the solids all work well at those reduced velocities....

In most cases it has been my experience that slowing a bullet down is the best way to make a lead core bullet perform perfectly...To a lesser degree and in some cases this can also apply to a monolithic if you want that nice looking expanded bullet...