I finally shot my Ruger No. 1 in .450 Rigby. I purchased Kynoch ammo since I am not a reloader. Very expensive. It is a 480 gr. soft nose. Man does this thing kick! I think I took out the back wall of the shooting range. I hear of all these people shooting .470, .500, .577, .600, .700; they are much tougher than I am. I don't know if I will shoot it again. The sights on it are nice. I set the target at 25 yards and hit the nine ring. I think I closed my eyes before I pulled the trigger though. This is beautiful rifle and will look good on the wall as a conversation piece.

Your gun is probably too light for the chambering.

How much does it weigh?

George

Take a smaller calibre rifle to the range. Shoot it off hand several times to relax. Then swap to your .450. Shoot it carefully but try to stay relaxed. Don't shoot off a bench. Shoot it off hand standing. Don't worry if it isn't sighted in yet, if bore sighted well you should have a good chance of hitting a 9 inch circle at 25 yards.

Get used to it that way with a couple of shots or three. If relaxed you may not notice the recoil as much standing up. I don't believe anyone enjoys shooting big bores off sand bags off a bench.

After shooting 2 or 3 shots from the .450 go back to the smaller calibre. It will feel like a .22 rimfire and will help your confidence as well.

A Ruger No.1 is way too light for the Lott. You need to add a couple of pounds to the rifle to keep it beating you to death.

Reality check No.1:

Only on the internet can everyone shoot those big bores!! they do kick like hell and even when made heavy they still kick like hell, the old adage of "oh its just a big push" is pure BS, don't let anyone kid you about that, most big bores are kept in gun racks for bragging purposes, how many have you seen with the bore shot out or even scratched up a bit...Strngely enough they are all brand new on the used gun market...

If you want the real truth then leave your gun empty and hand it to some of the big bore shooters and watch what happens when they near jerk themselves off the bench on an empty chamber.....

Some can shoot them, but they are far fewer than you would think, I have been witness to this phenomina for 50 years and some of my best laughs have come from it, especially with PHs and guides!! how about them barries.

Don't give up yet,
when I first started shooting my big bore I found it quite upsetting.
However, being the stubborn sort, I would shoot it, think about it and adjust.
What I found was that even though I had been shooting my entire life launching 500 grainers at 2000fps is a totally different ball game. RELAX, RELAX, RELAX...let the gun do the work. Let it recoil and do not try to stop it. Keep it snug and your cheek on the stock but don't try to push back. (ps- from the bench just hurts, sight it in and then get the hell up)
Also, as you squeeze the trigger slowly exhale. This will help you with accuracy from any gun....with a big bore it also will keep you from getting that damned headache (learned that trick in judo class, when you hit the mat holding your breath you get a blood pressure spike)
Don't go to the range for a marathon session 6-10 rounds each time are about all most people can take.
Apprehension is normal but experience will make the difference....I will have to take my own advice soon. I just had my .458 w/m converted to a Lott and just loaded some 600 grainers for it. Broke into a sweat just looking at them.

Ray, I don't think I've ever heard of anyone say that the Lott was just a shove. That cartridge has enough steam to shove you right off the bench. Now, on the other hand, the 375 and the 458 Win do feel like friendly shoves to me. No other cartridges need apply as far as being shooter friendly.

RecoilPad, you may consider Magnaporting the Ruger to make it more shootable if you're not going to add weight to it.

Ray.....I have to agree with you on the issue of recoil. I've known a lot of people that can handle .475" and up game rifles, but only a few shoot them well (by "well" I'm suggesting maybe 2-3 inch groups at 50 yards). Personally, I've built a number of big bores to include three .500 A2s, two .577 Nitros, a .475 A&M, .450 Ackleys, and even a .585 Nyati on a Brevex Mauser action. I can "shoot" them all......where the bullets go on the other end is a different story. Take the Nyati for example. The last time I shot the gun, I blew the hell out of a stump at about 30 yards. Granted, I was hitting the thing every time, but that's not saying much when the target's two feet wide. The stump was destroyed, over a thousand grains of powder was burned, and my shoulder was heavily bruised/sore. They're an adrenaline rush to shoot, but very hard to master.

Lee Martin
www.singleactions.com

recoilpad,
I sent you an IM..

The ruger is probably too light, and full house loads will rattle you hard... you can add weight, tungsten is prtty good for the forearm, and shoot it...

.... (lee, 2-3 inchs off hand, with a 22 is better than i've seen most people shoot at 50yards)

You need to take it to the range, pick it up, fire it... set it down...

repeat 3 times.....

shoot something else the rest of the day...

You actualy don't KNOW what it kicks like (a lot is not quantitative) until you get to shooting it reguarly....

You really need to reload (rcbs supreme master relaoding kit) to make reduced loads for this.. start small.. 45/70 in a #1 kicks hard...

jeffe

Ok- I'll bite. I've said this before and I'll say it again. If the gun is designed right and uses a good straight stock design, an EFFECTIVE muzzel brake, mercury recoil reducers and a good Pad and you know how to let your body ride with the gun, then anyone can shoot a big bore. I've coached alot of folks to shoot and you'd really be surprised at how poorly most people are trained, if they were trained at all. The average guy who can't shoot a 2 inch group with his scope sighted 30-06 at 50 yrds just ain't gonna do the same thing with a .585 Nyati! Shooting is all about practice, practice , practice. If you become afraid of the gun and start flinching your in big trouble. You don't have to be built like Arnold S, but you do have to shoot alot.-Rob

Ray,

I'm glad someone finally said that! It may have been said before and I missed the thread but what you said is refreshing. I can hold the various 416's (not Wthby)to about 1.25" off the bench at 100 yards but I use a "controlled" flinch. I never benched my 470 NE because of the recoil...also because it shot 2-3 inch RL groups about 1" high offhand at 50 yards. I always thought the recoil of my 458 Lott or 470 was stompingly hard. I know if I were 30 years younger I wouldn't mind having the poopoolacaca knocked out of me quite as much!

Do a search in this forum for threads with the words recoil in them, and you'll see some excellent posts on how to deal with recoil. I don't think anyone has stated that big guns don't kick, but if they are set up properly, and you want to learn to shoot them well, you can. That said, they are not guns one shoots day in and day out.

While the Ruger #1 is a beautiful gun, and a relatively inexspensive way to get a big bore, it isn't the best platform for recoil management w/o a signifigant amount of work.

If you really want to enjoy your gun, then you really should start re-loading. Unless money is not an object, you won't be able to afford enough factory ammo to become proficient with your gun. You also will be missing out on the best reason to re-load for big bores, lighter bullets and loads.

On my previous 458 Lott, I loaded both 500 gr @ 2300 fps, and 350 gr @ 2400-2500 fps. The 350 gr loads are an entirely different story then the 500 gr loads, and I can gurantee you'll enjoy shooting such loads through your Rigby. They are entirely sufficient for any NA game. That is another benefit of big guns, they can be downloaded and still be very effective on game.

Ray, if you think big bores kick that bad, then the ones you shot must not have had well-designed stocks, or they must have been too light.



You are welcome to shoot a .458 lott I have that kicks about like a .270. You will not have any trouble snuggling up to it on the bench in a T-shirt. Here is the secret for that particular rifle:

- 11 pounds

- vias brake

- mercury in forearm and in butt

- oversized butt to spread the recoil out

- pachmyr SHOTGUN recoil pad (works better than Old English)



But I will grant that if you just re-chamber a model 70 to 458 lott with the factory stock, it is going to kick like hell.

How would you like to shoot a ruger no. 1 in 600 JDJ (900 grains at 2000 fps)?

Everybody has a different recoil tolerance. At the range I've let a number of people shoot my mediums. Most that shoot the 375 H&H comment that it wasn't nearly as bad as they thought. Out of maybe 20 people that have tried my 416 Remington only 2 have fired more than 1 shot. My personal limit was reached by a 9lb 505 Gibbs. I shot about 30 rounds but couldn't hit anything after about 5. It got traded in to someone who installed 3 mercury recoil reducers and proceeded to shoot 2 elephants and who knows how many Cape Buffalo.
I guess the moral of the story is to try and add Mercury and/or a better recoil pad. When you shoot it remember that it kicks just as much whether you flinch or not so don't (easier said than done). There are some companies making standing shooting benches and these might be just the thing for sighting in Boomers........DJ

I fully understand When I shot my 416 taylor with full house loads it was a eye opener. As it came back from the smith it weighed 8lbs 10oz that was less then my 338 I added weight brougt it up to 10 lbs load with scope and sling. I put on a thicker recoil pad now I can stand to shoot it.

Mined you it isn't as nice as my 300 mag or my 338 but it is not as nice as my 223s or any lesser caliber to shoot.
But I can now get off a couple of well aimed shots into what I need to.


Well I shoot it very day I dought it well I take it hunting you bet. Well I shoot it prone of the bi pod no way.

Thanks again for all of useful info. I am trying to schedule a time to meet with Jeffeosso to dial in some reloads for this .450 Rigby. In the meantime I will gather the hardware such as the F990 and mecury reducers. Just for info, the Kynoch ammo is 480 gr @ 2350 fps.

Kmule,
I'm not sure who did the gunsmithing. I purchased the rifle from a gentleman that had this done to this rifle. I believe it was done by someone out West. If I can find my info on the rifle, there may be a name in there. I will forward it to you then. If I can figure out how to post pictures, I will post some of the Ruger No. 1H.

OK now we have a 11 lb. gun and when loaded it weighs 12.5 lbs, so were going to pack the big ugly heavy sob 10 miles a day in 100 degree plus heat? not me big guy...

I'm going to pack my 10 lb. 470, grit my teeth and shoot the animal once I hope, but in reality I may be packing a 9 lb. 9.3, 375 or 416 as thats where recoil is tolerable for 80% of us humans..and 10% of them can't handle that recoil so should figure on a 9.3x62 and shoot well....

I see this every year at sight in time, yank and duck with a 458 or even a 375....and again when I hand many of the "experts" an empty gun they flinch when it snaps..

My point is BS walks and good shooting talks...I know some can shoot anything, some think they can shoot anything, and some are scared to death of recoil...The best advise to you is to be honest with yourself and "know" what you can do and pick your rifle based on that.

Even Robgunbuilder, 500, and Jeffe, can shoot a 222 better than a 505 Gibbs Improved ....

Ray,
better, being a relative term, is accurate...

I shoot my 376 with smaller groups, offhand than i do my 500 or my late 416.... I do shoot my 58 cal BP pretty good...

Lord, If i could HOLD my 222 and shoot offhand, i'ld be floored (18.5# shilen match gun)

I spend bout 20 mins, just about every day, shooting a sidecock pellet rifle... and I have flicnhed on THAT, for no good reason... but i train and train and train with it...


as for flinching on an empty gun... YEP!!! I am terrified of the 577 nitro... I know it's not all THAT much more than my 500, but for some mental reason.. and flinch is 100% mental.... I've jerked it a mile with snap caps... but, if i bear down, breath, let it hit me... when someone helps me up, the bullet is generally pretty close to the bull!!

jeffe

I would say one can learn to shoot the big bores okay as the members above who have done it.

But one can also learn to spar with a middle weight boxer, or spend a few seconds on an angry bull.

For every guy who goes to all that hassle of learning, you will have another 9 who buy the gear and talk shit.

Pretty much what Ray said I guess.

Karl.

Whoever started that BS about the big bores just giving you a push never shot one. A .375 is nice to shoot and I shoot mine well enough I shot 20-pound jackals at 200 yards and a springbuck at 300, but the .416 Rigby is another story. I can shoot 1" three shot groups with the heavy Ruger and a 1.75-6x scope, but only shoot 4-5 shots per session. I sometimes will shoot as good or better groups with the .375 and .416 from the bench just because I'm more conscious of having it mounted properly, etc. The over .40's will teach you the proper way to hold a rifle, has a big push about like getting hit with a baseball bat. They can be shot well, with concentration, just like a wide receiver can catch a pass when a d-back is just on the verge of flattening him or a quarterback completing a pass in the face of a blitzing middle linebacker, first you have to realize the damn thing isn't going to kill you.

Amen!

I have only fired classic big bores a few times. None were pleasant. I do have considerable experience with the Barrett M82 50BMG and it is plain mean to shoot. Wouldnt do it again if I have a say in the matter.

recoilpad,

...how would you compare your .450 rigby to, say, a .416 rigby or a .458 win. mag. in terms of recoil?...

...i would suppose the .450 rigby would be an (expensive) alternative to a .458 lott...

jeffeosso - did you and diesel dude ever get together for a pig / javelina hunt? did you shoot his 577? KMule

ThomasEdwards,
I have never shot a .416 Rigby but I have shot a .458 Win Mag. In fact the .458 Win Mag is in a Ruger #1 also. The .450 Rigby kicked much harder. I was shooting the 510 gr. soft points in the .458 Win Mag. I thought that recoil was harsh, until I shot the .450 Rigby. I was shooting the 480 gr. in the .450 Rigby (only shot it once).

...thanks for responding...was considering replacing a .416 rigby with a .450 rigby, but now think that 'shot placement' is more important than using 'enough gun'...

Interesting responses. I shoot a .450 Dakota - the ballistic twin to the .450 Rigby. I push a 500gr Woodleigh at 2350 fps. While the recoil is impressive, it is not what I would describe as the extreme limit of human endurance. I do shoot it off a standing bench with little problem. A sitting bench is not much fun, but tolerable. If your rifle is built properly and fits properly, recoil is considerably more manageable.



Recoil is a mental game. If you are too keyed up over getting smacked, you will feel ever ft/lb of recoil. If you roll with the recoil and accept the fact that it smarts, then you can control the innate reaction to flinch.

Zero,

To follow on from you said there is an observation I have made at our rifle range and it spans over many years. What I have noticed is that if a 375 shooter thinks the 375 is a real cannon then he experiences worse recoil than does another shooter who sees the 375 as no more than a medium powered gun.

In fact I believe that one of the reasons that many shooters will say that something like a 7mm STW kicks more than a 375 or a 378 Wby kicks more than a 460 or 500 is because the 7mm STW and 378 kick far more than what was expected.

I suspect that your use of the 450 Dakota is aided by the fact that you do in fact have the knowledge that a 45 calibre 500 grainer at 2300 is quite a ways down the power/recoil ladder.

Mike

Mike - I agree. Having shot full house loads from the likes of the .460 Weatherby, it can always be worse.

As an aside - The stock design of the Weatherby exasperates recoil in my opinion. Again, a poor stock fit can magnify the experience.

Zero,

I much prefer a stock like the Wby that has the centre of the butt well below the bore line.

We are all obviously different. We have a fibre glass stock maker in Australia who make a very expensive stock and he makes one stock that is basically a Wby in shape and the other is a straight type stock. He recommends the Wby style for big bangers. In fact PC who posts here has the Wby style on his 585 Nyati. But again, this is going to vary with different shooters

By best shooting mate has three HS Precision stocks and those stocks have the centre of the butt about as close to the bore line as is possible. Apart from recoil I also find those type of stocks land to high on my shoulder if I quickly snap the rifle to the shoulder.

Mike

Yeah, but some of you guys are the baddest dogs on the block, and some are just full of s--t!!

Mike - The only problem with this type of stock configuration is exaggerated muzzle climb. Big recoil + muzzle climb + scope = blood.

ZD,

I am quite pleased that there are guys around that can shoot them monsters. I gave up on the Lott (500 gr. @2300 fps). When hunting it was (of course) not noticed but I just dreaded shooting it at the range, even offhand.

This, in part, may have been due to old age, but I would get smacked with my thumb even with the straight stock and F990 recoild pad. I didn't want to lug around 9.3 lbs. either. I have settled on the 416 Rem-for-sissies!

Will - I am all about the .416 Rigby or .416 Dakota when it comes to my field guns today. I just have not found that much difference on buff between the .450 Dakota and the .416. The .450 may come into play with an ele one of these days, however, the .416 are a little easier on the shoulder.

Zero,

I have owned two 460s, both the older ones with only the Pendleton Dekicker and two of those light weight Japanese 378s and I remained scar free

Actually if memory serves be correctly I think Atkinson is another shooter who prefers the stock with the large drop.

There are no rights or wrongs in this this area, rather just different shooters.

Mike

You are totally right on the spot.

Quote:

---

I was shooting the 510 gr. soft points in the .458 Win Mag. I thought that recoil was harsh, until I shot the .450 Rigby

---

This big bores kicks and the only reason to have one is to brag about how tuff you are 8D.
So I have a 458Win and think that are as much as a fragile pearson like me can handle. I am using my 458Win to hunt moose with and most of my hunting partners are using 6,x55 and 308Win for the same purpose and results. Ok i get more BANG and more blood outside the the animal but the rest is teh same

.

Alf,

There is no doubt that in general your are correct.

And you are 100% right on the big bores for sale with a few shots fired.

However, you do have many people on this forum who are just the opposite of selling a big bore a few shots.

I don't know about the US or Canada....but in Australia you often see bench style rifles in 22/250, 243 etc for sale after a few shots. As is the case with most things in life, the extremes are only for a few people.

Mike