I've got two big bores a .458Lott and a .470NE Searcy the lott has well over a thousand rounds fired through it. Mostly by me. My .470 is up there around 500 rounds. All by me.

Why so many?? Because I love shooting, hunting and reloading and I practice with these rifles all the time.As i feel that it is neccesary to maintain the level of confidence that it takes to hunt with a heavy.

Do they kick? Yes.. Can you learn to deal with it. Yes. I find the .470 to be a a very nice rifle to shoot as far as felt recoil goes except for the finger bashing thing..Before I learned how to hold it I recieved some serious middle finger bashing from the trigger guard. I have to admit that after about the first 20 rounds of finger smashing fun I was developing A KING SIZED MUCHO FLINCH. I've since gotten over it. It can be done.

I agree with Ray that some people can not handle a heavy and therefore shouldn't. But you can learn and you can become quite effective with one. I'll not belittle my post with personal brags and unprovable claims I'll just say that I feel quite comfortable with a properly fit rifle in the .458Lott or .470 class.

MIke,
No I don't prefer a stock with a "large drop", but I do not like the stick straigt stock design of most American classic designs prefered by many stockmakers today...

I like to split the difference and get some barrel going up and some coming back..and with this design I can shoot iron and scope equally as well with the same rifle...

I do like the drop on English doubles rifles, which is a good deal, but only with iron sights, but then no-one but a few misfits, perverts and bangdogers, would scope a nice double!

Bill - I too am selling several rifles and will work with the 416 remington in a safari express model 70 - seems I read that you had your rifles restocked to allow one additional round in the magazine; I was wondering what the total weight of your rifle is? Your photo does not show a scope, do you not use a scope on this rifle? Thanks - KMule

Ray,

I have always thought of the Wby style stock as being basically like your English double or bolt action but the cheek piece added for scope use. Does this sound about right?

Mike

KMule,

That is one of those nasty 470's in the photo, which I sold. The first Mod 70/416 was re-stocked by McMillan with a Sonny Hill drop box magazine & weighs 8.9 lbs.

The other is the same but re-barreled to a #4 contour and weighs 8 lbs. empty (I hope). It is coming back this week from McMillan so I will find out for sure. Just too old/out of shape to be carrying heavy rilfes.

Both rifles have scopes bases and scopes fitted, but I do not use the scopes unless something would happen to the open sights or if someone wanted me to shoot a free lion on the hunt!

Bill - out of curiosity, I weighed my 416 and it weighs 9.5 pounds, a bit "chubby" for a 416 rem mag IMHO - has nice balance however. I plan to get Talleys and mount a 1.5x5 Leupold on top for load development and plan to hunt with irons. Well, maybe the scope for longer shots as my eyes aren't getting any better with age. About that free lion, how often does that happen? KMule

I don't understand why the difference of 2 pounds matters so much to some. My theory is that losing 2 pounds around the belt line can offset 2 pounds in the rifle.

For years I have carried a 10 pound rifle elk hunting in the high country, and at least so far it does not bother me. But I will admit that a 13 pound rifle is really my limit for hunting. I will not be packing an 18 pound .700 nitro anywhere.

500,
2#...
imagine a 9# 416 rem... shooting it is fairly pleasent...

imagine your flinch after 5 rounds from a 7# 416 rem...

jeffe

Post deleted by Will

Will - I thought you were the only guy on this forum who has ever actually been to Africa. How can we possibly compete???

ZD,

I deleted one post already. I'm going to try to delete that one. Sometimes I just can't ignore blowhards. I need to do the troll thing.

Will, all you need are two words:

PHYSICAL FITNESS.

Until then...ta da!

Will - Don't let the paper tigers get you down. It is painfully easy to see who has been there and who is still dreaming about getting there...

ZD's right. I understand that since Will has concluded that since he cannot handle rifles larger than .416, therefore no person can. All rifle makers will henceforth make calibers no larger than .416. We must thank Will for his knowledgable contribution to the industry. I am glad I had a chance to read his posts or I would never have picked up these pearls of wisdom. hee hee hee



Back to the treadmill...

500Grains - You missed Will's point. With the performance of the .416 in the field, the larger calibers are generally not necessary. This is my position as well. I do not see any significant difference between the .416 Dakota/Rigby and the .450 Dakota on buff (as a first shot rifle). The only difference is on the shooter's end.

The exception to this rule is in the choice for a dangerous game backup caliber, then, bigger is always better.

ZD, without a haughty dose of arrogant condescension, Will's point just doesn't have the same ring to it.

Zero,

What experience do you have in Africa with calibres like the 585 Nyati.

Mike

Will,

What experience do you have in Africa with calibres like the 585 Nyati.

Mike

Mike, I know you are struggling to make a point, I am just not sure what it is. Maybe you could be a little more descriptive...

Zero,

It is an extremely simple question

Let me help you. The answer could be "no experience" or the answer could be that you have had experience with the calibre and then some comments on your experience.

Mike

Mike - Let me help you out. I have only hunted in Africa 8 times (just booked number 9). I believe that I have only carried with me maybe 6 different rifle calibers, 2 pistol calibers, and 1 shotgun.

Now, what�s the point you are so eager to make?

ZD, no need to get sensitive. No one is saying you are not an expert. But I think Mike's question can be generalized to ask whether you claim to be an expert of all things, or just an expert of the things you have experience in.



Here are some sample answers to Mike's question:



a.) I have no experience whatsoever with the subject matter of your question.



b.) I have read about the subject matter of your question but I have no first hand knowledge.



c.) I have minor/moderate first hand knowledge of the subject matter of your question from doing ________.



d.) I have extensive first hand knowledge of the subject matter of your question from doing _______.



(Note: Please be careful because I would not want to see things go down the road to where Will calls you a blow hard and you call him a paper tiger.)

500 - If I continued to pontificate about subjects which I have no clue or experience with, then I would hope that someone like Will would set me straight before I made a complete ass of myself. Unfortunately, it is far too late for that for many around here...

500 - Apparently the only one taking any of this seriously is you. It is evident that you have much experience in Africa which contradicts my observations. Please share with me what that experience is and why my statements are incorrect. I am interested in learning...

Also, I have in fact hunted a few small private farms in RSA. I believe the smallest was Rooiport NR in Kimberly which is 120,000 acres. The rest of my hunting has largely been in national park concessions in RSA & Zim. This year in Mozambique, I am hunting an area which has only been hunted once in the past 20 years and is approximately 100 miles by 90 miles - not sure if it is fenced or not.

Watch Dave shoot his .470 rapid fire.
http://www.470mbogo.com/RecoilVideo.html
These are all neat video's to view