I have a spare LH .375H&H Model 70 destined to become a big bore. Given the other .375, I'm leaning towards the Lott. But even absent the .375, the Lott will toss 400gr slugs with as flat a trajectory as the .416, but you can step up to the 500gr bullets if you need to. Plus there are pistol bullets for plinking, etc. I suppose SD of the lighter bullets is a potential downside as well as recoil. Anything else I should be considering?

I'd love to see a penetration test with Barnes TSX's in 400 grains fired out of each, BTW, for all you bullet box builders.

Thanks,

Steve

If .452 pistol bullets will work in a .458 Lott then I think .410 pistol bullets would work fine in a .416 Rem Mag so the plinking value is the same for each. The SD is different for 400 gr 458 & 416 bullets so that isn't exactly apples and apples but I don't think most animals would know the difference.

Given the greater selection of rifle bullets, the 458 becomes a Lott more versatile.

quote:

Originally posted by skl1:


I'd love to see a penetration test with Barnes TSX's in 400 grains fired out of each, BTW, for all you bullet box builders.

Thanks,

Steve

I understand that an upcoming article in African Hunter magazine will publish bullet box results for most imaginable .458 bullets, including the 400 grain TSX.

I use 429 pistol bullet through a 416 sizer I made from a lee .410 sizer. 300gr reszed 44 bullets at 2640 does a nice job on deer.

Cast resized bullet are great fun at 800fps.

Steve,
Not exactly certain your baseline numbers are inline, so I'll share some of my experiences with both ..

416 rem.. is out of steam at 2400 fps.., you MIGHT get another 50-70 fps with amazing powder, and that's it.

458 WIN (i know, you said lott) will send remington 405s downrange at 2500fps. So the lot will go quite a bit faster,


HOWEVER, your question was on traj, not on vel. and a 400 gr 416 bullet has a much higher BC than the same shape in a 458 bullet, therefore the down range bleed off of vel isn't apples to apples


You can NOT reliably use pistol bullets in a lott, as is. 45 cal pistol is .451 (nominal) and the lott is .458... assuming that a standard crimp is about 5-8 thou, you are actually talking about a max of .001 holding the bullet in, and over worked brass.

cast bullets are dirt cheap in either, but remington jackets are what, 10 cents each? same price as pistol bullets

the 458 lott is the most flexible big bore there is, and a great choice.


jeffe

Go to http://www.federalcartridge.com/

and compare the ballistics of the following two loads:

P416RT1, 416Rem, 400gr TBBC, 2400fps
P458T1 , 458WM, 400gr TBBC, 2380fps

Trajectory of 416Rem with a 100yd zero:
0.1 50yds
0 100yds
-5.8 200yds
-20.6 300yds
-46.8 400yds
-86.4 500yds

Trajectory of .458WM with 100yd Zero:
0.1 50yds
0 100yds
-5.9 200yds
-20.9 300yds
-47.3 400yds
-87.1 500yds

Trajectory of 416Rem with a 200yd zero:
1.5 50yds
2.9 100yds
0 200yds
-11.9 300yds
-35.2 400yds
-71.8 500yds

Trajectory of 458WM with a 200yd zero:
1.6 50yds
3.0 100yds
0 200yds
-12.1 300yds
-35.5 400yds
-72.4 500yds

I think its pretty obvious that the traj. of the two rounds, both with 400gr TBBC bullets, is pretty close (the two are within .2 or .3 inches all the way to 300dys). Even if Federal's numbers are off a little, they are still too close to worry about.

The .458Lott would be even better.

YMMV

Keep the sectional densities in mind when comparing the .416" 400gr to the .458" 400 gr bullets.

Dia. ___ Grs ___ SD
.416 __ 400 __ .330
.458 __ 400 __ .272
.458 __ 500 __ .341

-Bob F.

For the Lott you can papaer patch .451" bullets to get .459" bullets.

It really depends on the purpose of the rifle. If you're looking for a dedicated DGR, I'd lean towards the 416. If you want a big bore plinker, then the 458 Lott is one of the best.

The 400gr 416's have a higher SD, but I don't think that matters much in this senario.

If I have a .458 and I want to hunt very large game, I will stick with 450-500gr bullets and ranges will be under 100yds (probably much shorter). Trajectory will not be a factor.

If I need to hunt at 200+yds, I will be after smaller game (elk maybe). In this case I do not need the high SD of the 400gr 416's. The lower SD .458's will do just fine.

The real advantage of the 416 is the ability to use one bullet for both applications.

FWIW

If I want to stop a charge, I will use a 500gr. 458 or a 400 gr. 416...not a 400 gr. 458 in anything...

Ray and I agree.

For short range charge stopping, use a 400gr .416 or a 500gr .458.

For hunting smaller game at longer range, the 400gr .416 or 400gr .458 will both work fine . . . and have similar traj.

There have been some recent incidents where a .416 with a 400 grain bullet was not too successful in stopping a charge.

If you want to stop charges, minimum is 500 grain .458, but better have .50 cal. or greater.

Crap-- I won't have the only LH M-70 Lott any more.

(OK, well the only one that I know of...)

You won't be disappointed. The .416 is one step up from the .375-- but the Lott is two. May as well get the big one-- after all, us lefties don't have a lot of choices (which is why I went for the biggest thing I could get-- my budget is limited to one custom gun per decade...)

Thanks for all the responses. Paul, why do you say you'd lean towards the .416 as a dedicated DGR over the Lott?

500gr, thanks for the heads-up. I'll look for the article.

I would use 500gr bullets in the Lott for hunting DG. Just curious if the 400gr .458 bullet might not give you roughly the same flat .416 trajectory and the same lethality (and probably .416 level recoil) with the option of stepping up to 500gr for a buffalo hunt, for instance.

Pertinax, I'll start looking at other .458 chamberings. Maybe the Ackley?

Steve

I'd say that darn few people can shoot a 458 Lott from any position and be able to totally ignore the recoil, assuming a nominal 10# rifle with no muzzle brake. I've never been hurt by either of my 458 Lotts, and I've never flinched, but it takes serious concentration every time you squeeze off a round.

With a 416, the recoil is still substantial, but it is at a level that you can ignore it.

Perhaps with lotts and lotts of practice you can ignore the recoil of the lott, but I'm not so sure. That is why I think the 416 is a better rifle for serious dangerous game hunting. You don't need stopper power if you place the first shot properly, and me thinks the 416 is more conductive to placing that critical first shot, and 400 gr @ 2400 will certainly penetrate as deeply as the lotts 500 @ 2300.