Thinking about starting a .585 AHR build next year. Would the cheaper option to start with a a-square Hannibal and go from there? A friend of a friend is looking to sell his Hannibal for cheap. What is the consensus for this rifle? I cant imagine that it could be done any cheaper.

Why go with the .585 AHR and not a .600ok? The 585 is just the necked down .600ok? What caliber is the Hannibel in? I invented the .585/.600 ok ( now known as thev.585 AHR and frankly was never that impressed with it. it's an ok cartridge just not what the .600 ok is. The A square Hannibel is a good basis rifle but the stocks suck, you might be just as well off starting with a .416 Rigby Cz550. -Rob

I've thought that .585HE stronger brass from Bertram will make my decision easy.

Not so, everytime I hear or see the .600 OK I'm straight back to the drawing board.

I like the .600 OK far more than the .585HE

Based on the pressure 3800 Bar. (54 000psi) limit stamped on the .505 Gibbs CZ action is an another hurdle.

The case floor difference is in the whereabouts of 13-15% and that brinks the safe pressure limit of the bolt thrust down to the 3200-3350Bar (45-47800psi) whereabouts for the larger .600 OK.

To put the info into the Powley Computer combined with a 22-23" barrel it would take 900gr./ 2180fps and be right on the safe pressure limit. (at least my safe pressure limit).

There may be some other tricks how to lift the performance without excessive strain on the bolt/action, but persoanally I would never feel overconfident for the 600 OK to exceed 45-47800psi calculated limit in a CZ.

Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
Why go with the .585 AHR and not a .600ok? The 585 is just the necked down .600ok? What caliber is the Hannibel in? The A square Hannibel is a good basis rifle but the stocks suck, you might be just as well off starting with a .416 Rigby Cz550. -Rob

I think I like it just because it is different. The parent rifle here in EC is chambered in 338 Excalibur. The owner cant afford ammunition anymore so he is looking to sell. It needs a good set of iron sights but I dont think that I would change the stock, it fits me.

You are physically relatively close to Ed Hubel, creator of the 585 HE.
PM hubel458 here, that's him, and see if you can speak to him on the phone.
Compare everything between the 600 OK and the 585 HE and make your choice.
It is not like one will fail where the other would have succeeded.

DR- thankyou--

And my 585HE cases are 3 bucks each if you get in on
the shipment from the first run of over 4000 cases. If you
buy a bunch you'll save enough to buy a barrel compared
to other big cases and still have more power than most..

And they will be making cases anytime needed, as they do them
while making Cheytac cases, for which he has continuing
production orders. Ed

The Hannibel is based on the 1917 enfield action with a P14 bolt. I know of quite a few .600Oks that have been built successfully on that action. The .600ok was designed for 65KPSI and I have blue pilled CZ550 actions to 85KPSI. The first gun I built has over 1000 rnds thru it and seems to be pretty solid despite the 2400fps, 900 gr loads its digested. Now if you want an even stronger action, they are available.-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by hubel458:
DR- thankyou--

And my 585HE cases are 3 bucks each if you get in on
the shipment from the first run of over 4000 cases. If you
buy a bunch you'll save enough to buy a barrel compared
to other big cases and still have more power than most..

And they will be making cases anytime needed, as they do them
while making Cheytac cases, for which he has continuing
production orders. Ed

at 3.25in your 585 HE is pretty long. Is it still possible to fit that in a P17 action as a repeater? If so, it gets my vote.

My 585HE is same loaded length as as 505 Gibbs so any action Gibbs works in or can be made to work in will do my case.

In Enfield easiest make a single stack mag,
and open bottom by changing where the sear spring
works, to the back of the sear. In Picture.
You have to open the top port and get rid of ears
and excess metal.. Enfields are my favorite bolt gun
to work with.

But if you want to save work you can get a PH for Gibbs
and it is all set to go. It's all set for my case with even
the double stack mag that works.Ed

Ed,

Thanks for making the choice easy.

you could, of course, do the original, the 577 BME, which I invented, then called Boomie and gave to him ..

go ahead, ask me how

IIRC, the 600OK was the result of wanting to make the largest cartridge that
the big CZ action could be used for. I tip my hat to Rob for succeeding to do
so. I believe the 585 HE was the result of wanting to create the most powerful
round that would fit in any action that a 505 Gibbs round would fit. And Ed has
succeeded in that pursuit. Well done!

The question to me is, does a guy just want a bigger, and bigger, and bigger
rifle, or, if you are actually going to hunt and carry the thing, do you want as
big as you need, BUT NO MORE? Bigger cartridge means bigger recoil and heavier
rifle and more expense to shoot and so on. I simply believe that the .585" diam.
bullet at 750 grns and 2000 FPS is where the realty is for hunting conditions.
I can't believe that the larger calibers afford a hunter greater chances of get-
ting his game. If the .585", 750 grainer ain't doin' it, it ain't gettin' done...

This does not mean a guy is wrong for going bigger if he likes a bigger round
for his hunting, be it 600 NE 700 NE 4 Bore, etc. You just won't convince me
that your 600NE or OK, or larger cartridge saved you from death or injury where
the .585" diameter bullet would have FAILED to protect you.
May we all have our own brand of fun till "The End of Days"!

D R Hunter

shooting 500/2600+ fps .460Wea's for 30 years and I never needed a bigger gun, but also I never needed a smaller gun.

Just comfortable would be the correct word. The prevalent and frequently used "under gunned or Over gunned" means Jacks shit.

I would rather be caught shooting a wild dog with .460Wea than shooting a buff. with 30-06.

The weight and the recoil with bigger gun is fun.

Even more so that after time you don't even notice the recoil to be nothing more than little bit stiff, the cost to feed the bastard is also manageable.

Cost wise I would rather shoot 20 shots from .460Wea than 60 shots from 30-06.

I love shooting but to shoot the small stuff anything below .375H&H is not even funny.

I may have a shot or two from someones rifle now and then but that's it.

I rather drive the 4WD or watch them to shoot.

Pyzda

And my 585 can be loaded down, with cast or jacketed,
or with solids. I made long case design for longevity with
good speed, cases last. Our guys here in different guns
are shooting it with .585" Minie Bullets, 440gr, 540gr,
640gr, etc, costing a quarter each. Going moderate
2100-2600 Cases fall out. Great fun.And for high speed
super fun speed, a 440 gr minie at 3300 tearing
through a 6x12.

My original case I made many years ago was just as it it now
with .654" belt and .634" base. Later I made BME
a few cases for boomie using gibbs basic brass with belt dia
of .634" and base .020" less leaving a taper of of only about .007".
For comparison, 600OK cases I heve here have .016 total taper!!!
They chambered a gun and had trouble extracting. I got same reamer,sent
to me, chambered gun and it extracted hard. I rechambered same gun with
585HE reamer, and cases fall out. I have in the first case run of over 4000,
a thousand with no headstamp and it would be great if guys
wanting shorter case, get them and make ones with correct taper
for easy extraction.And they can put on their own head stamp.
And the taper matches matches the side thickness
taper so that my dies will work also saving having to get
a new run of dies designed.

BUT, the shorter you go with cases the less speed you can get
and still have the cases fall out.Example I use 170gr of slow ball
powder and 650 gr bullet and cases don't even have to be sized
for 4-5 rounds,just punch out primer, prime, use a shorty die I have
here for swaging and forming, and twist case into it by
hand a 1/2 inch or so and load it.Ed

Ed

is your seater die with a crimp ?,,,,,,bit dumb question to ask, but I rather be sure.

Thanks
Pyzda

Yes it has a crimp and I have some here
and CH4D has some.And a regular
RCBS # 31 shellholder works.

Ed

Thanks
Pyzda

quote:

Originally posted by Pyzda:
D R Hunter

shooting 500/2600+ fps .460Wea's for 30 years and I never needed a bigger gun, but also I never needed a smaller gun.

Just comfortable would be the correct word. The prevalent and frequently used "under gunned or Over gunned" means Jacks shit.

I would rather be caught shooting a wild dog with .460Wea than shooting a buff. with 30-06.

The weight and the recoil with bigger gun is fun.

Even more so that after time you don't even notice the recoil to be nothing more than little bit stiff, the cost to feed the bastard is also manageable.

Cost wise I would rather shoot 20 shots from .460Wea than 60 shots from 30-06.

I love shooting but to shoot the small stuff anything below .375H&H is not even funny.

I may have a shot or two from someones rifle now and then but that's it.

I rather drive the 4WD or watch them to shoot.

Pyzda

EXCELLENT post !!!

'''to shoot the small stuff anything below
.375H&H is not even fun'''--

More so with me, no fun below 585.
I've shot few heat treated 640gr lead slugs at
3000 and one went through 1/4" steel.
That load, they can hear it 6 miles away. Ed

CCMDoc

Thanks, it's good to know that at least someone agrees, that only the big and the bigger guns are interesting.

Ed
When it comes to the fun, You have about 30 years of lead on me.

That time 30 years ago the Internet was something that I would never look at to get some useful info about shooting.

The magazines like Guns & Ammo would have some info now and than about something like .577" Nitro in Ruger No1. shooting 750Gr./2050fps.

Not enough to get me excited to even read the article to the end.

Some 20 years ago I had frequent opportunity to buy some .50 BMGs actions but I never thought of rebarreling it into something bigger.

Those days I was always more interested in large quantity of trouble free shooting with regular over the counter components.

The .460Wea. always fit the bill perfectly.

Now when I know bit more, the .700" BMG case based something is my ultimate goal.

If it happens or not I don't know just yet, as everything becomes more and more difficult by every day goes by.

The ever changing gun laws and the bureaucratcy it drives me mad.

Pyzda