Been lurking for a while and since I just took delivery on a new DR a question has popped into my head concerning regulating them.

I know that each maker regulates them for a certain bullet wgt. and load. In fact I'm trying to find out what that is right now. But, what I've been wondering is if that is cast in stone, or can other wgt. bullets be used and loaded to the point where they will be accurate enuf for most uses.

I've got a Pedersoli Kodiak MK IV in .45/70 and I'm assuming it was regulated with a 405 gr. bullet. MAYBE! But for any hunting I'll probably ever use it for I think something in the range of a 330 gr. bullet would be more than sufficient. Deer and culling Russian Boar and wild hogs.

PETE

10x,
welcome! and what a great choice on a rifle..

that rifle is/should be regulated for 75 yards... and you'll have to work a load to match that regulation.

http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/default.aspx?lang=en

is the link to dave's site, you can ask him directly.

i believe every reloading manual has a load for rel7 (my choice for this) and you should be more than able to get them to shoot well.

If your gun "don't shoot" (that is, if it's HUGELY wrong) pederoli can supply you with a list of their servicing gunsmiths... the fella in MO worked great for me.

best of luck, keep us in formed
j

Yes it can be done.

A lighter bullet with slower velocity will recoil less briskly but have greater barrel time so it could be spot on.

Find a load with the 330 grainer that is slower than the 405 grainer. I don't know what velocity that will be, but I am sure you can find it. It should be a pleasant plinking load.

Welcome to the double rifle world. I hope you find the magic load. I also had a Pedersoli and had to play with several loads to make it shoot. I ended up selling it and bought a Searcy. Be careful, once the bug bites you may get sick in a hurry.

As Jeffe said, you should be able to email Pedersoli and have them tell you the regulating load. They did this for me.

Congrats on the Pedersoli Kodiak.

I like mine a lot. I wrote to Pedersoli, and they gave me the load mine was regulated for (300gr Winchester factory load). Mine shoots 405gr Remington factory loads very well, though, too.

The game with regulating loads for a dbl rifle is more or less this: The rifle is built with the two barrels converging towards the muzzle end. When you shoot, the gun recoils up and away from center. Thus, the point where the two barrels shots intersect (the place where the bullets would cross) moves out further the slower you go or the bigger the bullet you use. This is because they're in the barrel a little longer as it's moving up and away from center.

There's also some heat transfer from the first fired barrel to the second one going on, but don't know that there's a way to compensate for that with the load; it's supposed to be compensated for in the way the barrel are joined.

Good luck!

Steve

quote:

Originally posted by 10x:
Been lurking for a while and since I just took delivery on a new DR a question has popped into my head concerning regulating them.

I know that each maker regulates them for a certain bullet wgt. and load. In fact I'm trying to find out what that is right now. But, what I've been wondering is if that is cast in stone, or can other wgt. bullets be used and loaded to the point where they will be accurate enuf for most uses.

I've got a Pedersoli Kodiak MK IV in .45/70 and I'm assuming it was regulated with a 405 gr. bullet. MAYBE! But for any hunting I'll probably ever use it for I think something in the range of a 330 gr. bullet would be more than sufficient. Deer and culling Russian Boar and wild hogs.

PETE

Pete, I have the origenal letter from Trail Guns Armoury pertaining to the Kodiak Mark IV 45-70! I have the 134 th rifle off the maker's bench,made in 1988, and they are regulated with Federal 45-70 factory ammo useing a 300 gr bullet, and Mine was dead on at 100 yds, and grouped 4 shots, two from each barrel fired RT, LFT, RT, LFT, the group was a tight 2.5" for the four shots, at 100 yds . I then tried the loads I had for my 45-70 Ruger No1 useing 400 gr Speer bullets and 56.0 grs of IMR3031, CCI LR primer. Bullets seated to the forward crimp grouve, and slightly crimped. This load grouped the same 2.5" as the factory 300 gr load! will absolutely flatten a big black bear, Wild Boar,or Muledeer!

The two sight system was not needed on my rifle, and so I set the back one for 50 yds, and the front one for 150 yds.

Hope this helps !

Knowing that they are regulated for the low velocity 300 grainer (factory load), it makes sense that you need to find the higher velocity heavier bullet load, as Mac has spoken.

First off, let me say thanks for the welcome and the number of replies I got to my question. Tried another forum with a special .45/70 section and couldn't get any answers to any questions I asked. I was kind of afraid to ask about the .45/70 on here because of all the flaming about it. Glad I was wrong! I'll try and answer some of you guys' answers in this one message, so hope no one is offended.

jeffeosso,

The Pedersoli U.S. rep is a friend on mine and he suggested writing directly to Gloria Pedersoli about what the regulation load was..... which I did, but haven't received an answer yet. I'm told it takes about 2 weeks.

Like your comment on the RL-7. I just took it out yesterday for the first time using 39.0 grs. of 3031 which had worked well in an old Navy Arms RB. Right barrel gave about a 2 1/2" group and the left about a 1 1/2" group at 50 yds. Two groups were spread about 7" apart. Groups were pretty well in line with the right a trifle higher. Some of what I'm getting is more than likely due to my unfamiliarity in shooting DR's

Will look into the RL-7. I want to start at the bottom of the recommended trapdoor loads and work up from there.

And the tip about regulating at 75 yds. will be VERY handy to know! Would have thought it would be 50 yds.

RIP,

Yep! That's the idea. Nice load that is easy on the shoulder and can do everything I might want to. Don't think I'll ever get to Africa so don't need anything to potent. Not that I wouldn't like to go, but retirement funds don't allow for such things anymore. But I thought I'd splurge on the DR since I've always wanted one as long as I can remember.

Roscoe,

They had a real nice Merkel DR in .470 NE, but it's hard to afford caviar on a bologna income!

Skl1,

I'm really glad to hear that the regulation load is for a 300 gr. bullet. Not knowing for sure, both the U.S. Rep and I would have thought it would be a 400 gr. load. Guess we both don't know much about it.

MacD37,

WOW! I just hope mine will do as good. Did you do this with the open sights? I'm having a little trouble seeing the irons well enuf for load development. Had a scope put on for my tired old eyes, but can see the irons well enuf for hunting purposes so will probably take the scope off for that. Which brings up an interesting question for you..... I haven't measured the different leafs but it sure eyeballs as tho they are all the same height. Is this true?

Would be interesting to know when my gun was made. It's number is just a shade over 1100, and all I know about it was that it came into the store last Nov. I suppose I could write Pedersoli if I got real curious about when it was made.

I will keep that 56.0 gr. 3031 load in mind. Did you chronograph it? If so what MV did you get? Guess your experience pretty well answers my question about being able to regulate with different bullets and loads.

I really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer my question. Sure got a lot of info that will be VERY helpful.

PETE

10x
My brother had a 45/70 Kodiak for a while. His rifle shot very good.Every load we fired regulated very well in the rifle. Factory 300gr Rem 1887 fps, 300 gr Federal 1831 fps, 415 gr.Garrett Hammerheads [his old load 1734 fps], 350 Cor-Bon 1971 fps., and my reload with Rem 405 gr. with 56 gr of IMR 3031 1840fps, all shot to the same place at 50 yards. The WW 300 gr 1864 fps, and the Rem 405 gr. 1293 fps factory loads shot about 3 inches lower.
We were advised by the factory that any load that was safe in the marlin lever was safe in the Kodiak double rifle.

NE 450 No2,

Well, that is kind of a load off my mind, as I was hoping I'd be able to select an appropriate bullet and then work up a good regualtion load ofr it, but considering what I'd heard about DR's I wasn't to sure but what I'd have to just keep with whatever the factory regulated it with for best results.

I'm sure getting some conflicts regarding what can be pushed thru these Kodiaks as regards peak loads are concerned.

A web sie I accessed said that Pedersoli proofs the Kodiak at 35,000 psi and only recommends loading to no more than 28,000 - 29,000 psi. From the reloading manuals this seems to be about what is recommended for the Marlin too. Yet looking at the Garret web site they list their 400 & 500 gr. loads at 40,000 & 43,000 psi respectively, if I recall right, and also say these can be used in the Kodiak.

Now I can see this might apply to the Marlin, Ruger #1, and bolt rifles, but I really question there use in the Kodiak considering there's quite a bit more "flex" in the action.

This conumdrum has me wanting to be vety safe in what I work up, which is the reason for starting with Trapdoor loads and working up so I don't get caught with a wrecked gun before I even start. What are your thoughts on this? Anybody else is welcome to chime in to!

PETE

quote:

Originally posted by 10x:
First off, let me say thanks for the welcome and the number of replies I got to my question. Tried another forum with a special .45/70 section and couldn't get any answers to any questions I asked. I was kind of afraid to ask about the .45/70 on here because of all the flaming about it. Glad I was wrong! I'll try and answer some of you guys' answers in this one message, so hope no one is offended.


Like your comment on the RL-7. I just took it out yesterday for the first time using 39.0 grs. of 3031 which had worked well in an old Navy Arms RB. Right barrel gave about a 2 1/2" group and the left about a 1 1/2" group at 50 yds. Two groups were spread about 7" apart. Groups were pretty well in line with the right a trifle higher. Some of what I'm getting is more than likely due to my unfamiliarity in shooting DR's


Skl1,

I'm really glad to hear that the regulation load is for a 300 gr. bullet. Not knowing for sure, both the U.S. Rep and I would have thought it would be a 400 gr. load. Guess we both don't know much about it.

MacD37,


Would be interesting to know when my gun was made. It's number is just a shade over 1100, and all I know about it was that it came into the store last Nov. I suppose I could write Pedersoli if I got real curious about when it was made.


I really appreciate you guys taking the time to answer my question. Sure got a lot of info that will be VERY helpful.

PETE

There is no problem asking questions about the 45-70 here, as long as you don't make claims about it's usefulness on large Dangerous game in Africa!

Looking at your 39 gr IMR3031 load's punche on the target! 2 1/2" group for the left barrel, and 1 1/2" group for the right barrel, and 7" apart! You did not say if the RT barrel grouped on the RT, and the LFT barrel grouped on the LFT, but I would predict that is the case! This load is much too slow, causeing long barrel time! This is common because the recoil+the time the bullet stays in the barrel is what causes the barrels to shoot together,cross, or shoot apart!

If you will take a pair of empty cases, and kick the primers out of them, and chamber them in the chambers of the barrel set removed from the action! Then place the LUMPS in a padded vice then support the barrels so the sights are looking at the aiming point of a target at the same fifty yds. Now without moveing the barrels, look through the primer holes in each case! What you will see is, the RT barrel will be pointing at a spot that is on the left of the POA, and low! The LFT barrel will be looking at point that is on the RT of the point of aim, and low! The reason for this is, as the RT barrel is fired, it will rise, up, and to the right. The left barrel will rise up, and to the left!

when the bullets stay in the barrels just long enough to exit the muzzle at the proper time to hit the target at the same place as the other barrel, then you have your load. If it is high or low on the target is not the issue, if both barrels form a composit group is the goal! These rifles are better regulated at 100 yds! Work up loads at 50 yds, and when you get close, move to the 100 yd line to fine tune the regulation load! You shouldn't let the rifle touch anything but your hands, shoulder, and face. When you shoot from the bench, make sure your hand is between the rifle and the sandbags! A double rifle absolutely must be allowed to recoil as if you are shooting off hand. The key to working up loads is if the barrels shoot WIDE (RT, onthe RT, and LFT on the LFT) this will usually be high, the load needs speeding up! If the shots cross, and are low, the the load is too fast, and needs to be slowed! The proper way to shoot the rifle while working up a load to regulate in your rifle, is to always shoot four shot groups in the order of RT,LFT,RT,LFT from cool barrels! and NEVER let the rifle rest dirrectly on the sandbags.

If you want to know when your rifle was made, look on the bottom of the barrels just ahead og the lump hook, and see the proof marks. Near those marks will be a stamping the will look like AT, or AU, or AZ or some combination of BA, through BT with the E,G,J, K and O missing from the alphabet! Find those numbers and post them for me, and I can tell you the year!

Hope any of this helps you!

MacD37,

Well, do have some comments on whether the .45/70 is good enuf for DG, but figure I better not get into it.

I was pretty sure the 39.0 gr. load of 3031 would be to light. Chrono'd at 1525 fps. But had to start somewhere, and it was more used to see if the gun was functioning ok, and get a idea of someplace to start. But since the regulation load seems to be with 300 gr. bullets I'll leave the 400 grainers alone for a while and go with a 330 gr. bullet I have.

Guess I did forget to mention which side the barrels grouped on. Rt barrel on the right side, and LFT on the left.

Will have to try that deprimed case trick. 11 PM right now so will be difficult to do now!

Got you on how to set up for regulating from the bench. Will do!

Looking for those marks you say are on the barrel in front of the lump hook. All I see is the proof mark which looks like a shield with a star in a round circle above it. In front of that is another star in a circle with the letters PSF under it. Marked on both barrels. But back on the lump by the rear hook, right side as barrel is mounted on gun, is a square box with the letters BN inside. I'll assume that's what you're looking for? Looking forward to hearing when you think it was made.

You've been very helpful and provided me with a lot of info I didn't know and will certainly come in handy when working up loads. Thanks!

PETE