You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

Don't worry. That thread has stuff on everything that is gun related inluding different calibres as well as lot of things that are not gun related. You name it and it will be there.

And it started just like this one

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

And your motive, please...

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

And so the legend of the .458 Winchester Magnum grows.
May it ever be known as "Lott Slayer."

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

There's plenty of other big bores mate - and most of them are excellent!

It's just that for a long, long time us .458 users have been ridiculed, hated on, bagged out, mocked and put down. And finally a positive thread has been started informing people what the .458 is really capable of and hopefully the mistruths and hating will stop...

Cheers,

Russ

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

There's plenty of other big bores mate - and most of them are excellent!

It's just that for a long, long time us .458 users have been ridiculed, hated on, bagged out, mocked and put down. And finally a positive thread has been started informing people what the .458 is really capable of and hopefully the mistruths and hating will stop...

Cheers,

Russ

Yes. You could have got the impression the 458 was marginal for rabbits.

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

There's plenty of other big bores mate - and most of them are excellent!

It's just that for a long, long time us .458 users have been ridiculed, hated on, bagged out, mocked and put down. And finally a positive thread has been started informing people what the .458 is really capable of and hopefully the mistruths and hating will stop...

Cheers,

Russ

There are a number of gunwriters who seem to think that badmouthing a caliber they claim to have no knowledge of, makes them sound like some sort of expert.

I never had anything against the .458. I knew it was good that is obvious to anyone with a brain. I always wanted one. When I finally picked one up it was a CZ. The action was way too long. Had to turn it into a Lott that was a no brainer as well. I just think it’s funny that it’s the only thread that gets the love. I’ve graduated into the .500s but there is no doubt that my .458 is about a perfect all around DG gun there is. Can use .458 wm or Lott, scopes or peep or express sights. Relatively light(had to add weight as it was self destructing ask Wayne at AHR lol) handy 22” bbl shoots 500’s at 2250 (Lott) holds 5 down without a super expensive drop belly. Accurate and kills Buffalo like crazy. I picked up a regular length action 458 Alaskan once that I thought was going to be great but I sold it wish I kept it. I personally hate it when the action is mismatched to the cartridge but if I find a deal in one someday....

Culled buffalo in arnhemland with mine it was awesome

quote:

Originally posted by badboymelvin:

quote:

Originally posted by gunslinger55:
You would not think there was any other big bores judging by the popularity of the one topic

There's plenty of other big bores mate - and most of them are excellent!

It's just that for a long, long time us .458 users have been ridiculed, hated on, bagged out, mocked and put down. And finally a positive thread has been started informing people what the .458 is really capable of and hopefully the mistruths and hating will stop...

Cheers,

Russ

My second .458 WIN was a CZ550 with the long action. I just seated the bullets long, easily matching or exceeding the Lott. There was no need to rechamber to the Lott.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Give me more power and punch.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Give me more power and punch.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

But RIP has it loaded to 3.6" OAL and is doing better than the Lott because of the 458 throat.

Sure you can go to 460 or 500 A2 but a much bigger deal plus the 458 offers much greater potential in the reduced load and cast bullet area.

Mike,

Thanks for supporting THE MISSION, where your reply will be copied.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
There are a number of gunwriters who seem to think that badmouthing a caliber they claim to have no knowledge of, makes them sound like some sort of expert.

Similar to Michael "MR" Robinson except he DOES claim to have knowledge of the .458 WIN, so his badmouthing of the .458 WIN must make him more of an expert.
Pure armchair expertise is all he has "more" of.
I am guessing he does not even handload, so he has to stick with whatever factory ammo he can find for his .458 Lott,
and he has never beat those ballistics with a .458 WIN, so easy to do.
Very similar to a .450 Marlin fan who cannot handload a .45-70 Govt. to beat the .450 Marlin.
Same same.

Checkered history of the .458 WIN, MR says ?
What about the wildcat rustling of Jack Lott, followed by the SAAMI corruption of the .458 Lott wildcat ?
Jack took a SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum and reamed it to take brass that was 0.050" shorter than the well known .450 Watts Magnum.
Jack blended his throat into the existing SAAMI .458 WIN throat.
The current SAAMI .458 Lott is hampered by a too-short throat and COL.
Not like the one Jack built.
That is a convolutedly checkered history for the .458 Lott.
All that the .458 Lott's history has omitted is extreme popularity and huge runs of factory ammunition production resulting in some faulty lots of ammo.
FAULTY LOTT RIFLE has a more truthful ring to it.
Fitting a 0.3" longer cartridge into a rifle with magazine only 0.2" longer is not smart.
One has to trim the brass even shorter to fit many bullets into that 3.6" SAAMI COL.
Jack liked doing his proper wildcat rifles on BRNO ZKK 602 and Ruger No. 1 actions, so no bother.

The more recent CZ 550 Magnum has a +3.8" box, too long for even the 3.6" COL of the SAAMI .458 Lott.

Member JFE in Oz has had his .458 WIN CZ 550 Magnum box front internally reinforced with a steel plate blending into the feed ramp,
for a box length of about 3.65".
When the slope into the feed ramp starts lower on the box front wall, it will definitely have better FN feeding capability.
That length of box will be perfect for either the more powerful SAAMI .458 Winchester Magnum or the lesser SAAMI .458 Lott,
if both are allowed the same cartridge overall length and maximum average pressure.
The .458 WIN is the winner, no contest.

Even with that JFE modification, the 500-gr Barnes TSX can still be loaded to 3.78" and crimped on the 5th and last cannelure
for a tight fit in the SAAMI .458 WIN throat, single-shot loaded off the top of the CZ 550 Magnum, shortened magazine.
At 2250 fps it is a bugholer in the .458 WIN.
A very accurate target load,
even if the bullet is so long it might tumble in game.
At 2342 fps it was only 1.5 MOA for 3 shots, with no signs of excess pressure, from my CZ barrel.
A SAAMI .458 Lott cannot be loaded that long with that bullet,
and if it could go as fast it could only do so with higher pressure than the .458 WIN.
And that is the truth, not some Lottite fantasy-reality.

Rip ...

Question: so when you load a 458 WM super long how well does the bullett stay seated? Seems to me you won’t have much brass holding on to it. Does recoil induced unseating become an issue? That could jam things up a bit in the heat of the action? Or some type of super crimp? In any case you will have .3” less brass holding onto the bullet correct? This seems to be my main concern

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
And so the legend of the .458 Winchester Magnum grows.
May it ever be known as "Lott Slayer."

Rip ...

......………….. This is a "good by" thread~ Rest in piece! MacD37

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Give me more power and punch.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

But RIP has it loaded to 3.6" OAL and is doing better than the Lott because of the 458 throat.

Sure you can go to 460 or 500 A2 but a much bigger deal plus the 458 offers much greater potential in the reduced load and cast bullet area.

Not interested in reduced loads and cast bullets.

Just buy a .45-70 if that's what you want.

I used to shoot the Lott, and have taken much heavy African game with it.

But my only .458 these days is a .450 Rigby. More velocity and energy, and at lower pressures, than the Win. Mag. or the Lott.

I notice that Michael "MR" Robinson does not deny that he does not know his ass from his elbow when it comes to handloading.

gunslinger55, search THE MISSION thread for answers.

MacD37, watch out for that screen door as you exit.

I own a .450 Dakota (superior fore runner of the .450 Rigby Rimless), a .458/.338 Lapua 2.7", a .450 Barnes Supreme,
a .458 Lott, a .450 NE 3.25", a .458/.416 Ruger, a .458 B&M, one each of those chamberings, 7 rifles.
I own seven rifles chambered for the .458 Winchester Magnum.

I have killed water buffalo with a .460 WBY, a .375 H&H, and a .416 Rigby.
I have killed bison with a .404 Jeffery and a .500 A-Square.
I have killed cape buffalo with a .416 Rigby and a .510/.416 Rigby Improved 3-Inch aka .500 Mbogo.
I wounded one cape buffalo at 150 yards with the .500 Mbogo and a hasty shot off of rickety sticks on the side of a termite mound.
The PH was lazy, told me to get ready and shoot my second buffalo
when the buffalo ran through a clearing 150 yards away, to get it over with so he could get back to the bakkie and smoke a cigarette.
RIP Paul.
The buffalo got a flesh wound and one or two drops of blood were found.

I will do future buffalo hunting with the .458 WIN.
400-grainers at +2500 fps and COL less than 3.4".
450-grainers at +2400 fps and COL of 3.6".
480-grainers at 2300 fps and COL of less than 3.6"
500-grainers at 2250 fps and COL of 3.6" and lower pressure than the .458 Lott doing the same.

The .458 WIN has greater magazine capacity than the .460 Wby, .450 Dakota, .450 Ted Williams Thumper (.458/.338 Lapua 2.7"), .458 Ruger, and the me-too .450 Rigby Rimless.
The .458 WIN delivers the above-listed ballistics with less recoil than the above listed fatter-cased cartridges.
They are all at their best with the same ballistics as the .458 WIN is capable of.

Call me the Grandpa Moses of the .458 WIN for all big game.
It is also my favorite varmint cartridge.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
I agree, Mr. gunslinger55.

The .458 WM is mundane and uninteresting.

Plus, it has a checkered past, like the maybe girlfriend whose flirting you rightly refused.

Give me more power and punch.

Just enough is just that, and not always nearly enough for what is needed.

But RIP has it loaded to 3.6" OAL and is doing better than the Lott because of the 458 throat.

Sure you can go to 460 or 500 A2 but a much bigger deal plus the 458 offers much greater potential in the reduced load and cast bullet area.

Not interested in reduced loads and cast bullets.

Just buy a .45-70 if that's what you want.

I used to shoot the Lott, and have taken much heavy African game with it.

But my only .458 these days is a .450 Rigby. More velocity and energy, and at lower pressures, than the Win. Mag. or the Lott.

While you have no interest in reduced loads many big bore shooters do. A 45/70 is basically a lever action gun. It is also much simpler to have a 458 than having a 45/70 and some other 45 bolt action.

Well actually you do have an interest in reduced loads because of how you load your 450 Rigby. However, a 458 Winchester loaded with reduced loads so the drop in KE is the same percentage drop in KE you get with you 450 Rigby reduced loads, becomes a rifle with relatively mild recoil. Also, the accuracy many shooters will seek with such loads is far superior to what one would expect to get from a lever gun. With a bit of load juggling and with bullets lighter than 500 grains you can get the reduced loads to shoot to the same point as maximum 500 grain loads.

I am often amused when reduced loads are discussed and often it is with 375 and up, that on AR and Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum someone with a 416 Rigby with 400 grain bullets at 2400 f/s says they don't believe in reduced loads

Mike: Excellent. Probably went right over MR's head.

Rip ...

I just had a ZKK602 .458Win barrel fitted to a ZKK600 action, so will see how the .458Win works in the shorter action in the near future !

I think of it as sort of a retro mod of the original.
AA 2230 came along and put new life in it as a manner of speaking. You can now load it in a std length action and easily attain 2150 FPS with a 500 gr bullet.
I am sure it kills just fine below that velocity BUT the experts say it does not.
YOU HAVE TO HAVE 2150 FPS!!

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
I just had a ZKK602 .458Win barrel fitted to a ZKK600 action, so will see how the .458Win works in the shorter action in the near future !

Great !
My first .458 WIN build was to fit a CZ 550 Magnum factory .458 Win.Mag. barrel to a Pre-64 'M70 action.
Rusty McGee did an outstanding job on this.
Barrel was only shortened from 25" to 24-7/8" in the process, most excellently done:



Hopefully your gunsmith was as good as Rusty at timing the sights and headspacing.
Mine is the prototype .458 WIN-V-3.4":
Magazine-loaded 400-gr HV at +2500 fps MV.
Single-loaded 500-gr TSX at 2342 fps MV.
Bughole accuracy with same 500-grainer at 2250 fps.
The skinny barrel found its accuracy node at 2250 fps with those 500-grainers.
AA-2230 for both 400-grainer and 500-grainer.

Both lower pressure and higher velocity may be obtained with AA-2460.
Both of those powders have excellent ThermoBallisticIndependence.

Rip ...

I tried the AA 2460 as the published data supports your note however the Chrono disputes it in my rifle. I could not reach the same velocities with 2460 as I did in 2230.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by Sarg:
I just had a ZKK602 .458Win barrel fitted to a ZKK600 action, so will see how the .458Win works in the shorter action in the near future !

Great !
My first .458 WIN build was to fit a CZ 550 Magnum factory .458 Win.Mag. barrel to a Pre-64 'M70 action.
Rusty McGee did an outstanding job on this.
Barrel was only shortened from 25" to 24-7/8" in the process, most excellently done:



Hopefully your gunsmith was as good as Rusty at timing the sights and headspacing.
Mine is the prototype .458 WIN-V-3.4":
Magazine-loaded 400-gr HV at +2500 fps MV.
Single-loaded 500-gr TSX at 2342 fps MV.
Bughole accuracy with same 500-grainer at 2250 fps.
The skinny barrel found its accuracy node at 2250 fps with those 500-grainers.
AA-2230 for both 400-grainer and 500-grainer.

Both lower pressure and higher velocity may be obtained with AA-2460.
Both of those powders have excellent ThermoBallisticIndependence.

Rip ...

quote:

Originally posted by eezridr:
I tried the AA 2460 as the published data supports your note however the Chrono disputes it in my rifle. I could not reach the same velocities with 2460 as I did in 2230.

Maybe you were using pre-2016 formulations of the two powders ?
Western Powders say that both powders were re-formulated in 2016,
and that those two powders have similar, excellent thermoballistic independence.
What a coincidence !
Some sources say there is very little difference between those two ball powders.
Another God wink ?
Mighty suspicious if you ask Bubba.
I think they are the same ball powder except
AA-2230 has a certain fraction of the spherical granules flattened to make it burn faster and pack a little more densely.
AA-2460 has uniformly spherical granules.
This reduces the surface area of the AA-2460 powder exposed to initial ignition, so it is barely slower burning than AA-2230.
It also makes AA-2460 occupy very slightly more space for weight than the AA-2230.
I got this idea from eye-balling the two powders on a piece of white paper
at Bubba Ballistics Laboratories, Limited. Very limited.

So to beat AA-2230 with AA-2460 will require a little more powder and a bit of compression,
compared to a 100% load with AA-2230.

Rip ...

quote:

BUT the experts say it does not.

Spare me from experts.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

While you have no interest in reduced loads many big bore shooters do. A 45/70 is basically a lever action gun. It is also much simpler to have a 458 than having a 45/70 and some other 45 bolt action.

Well actually you do have an interest in reduced loads because of how you load your 450 Rigby. However, a 458 Winchester loaded with reduced loads so the drop in KE is the same percentage drop in KE you get with you 450 Rigby reduced loads, becomes a rifle with relatively mild recoil. Also, the accuracy many shooters will seek with such loads is far superior to what one would expect to get from a lever gun. With a bit of load juggling and with bullets lighter than 500 grains you can get the reduced loads to shoot to the same point as maximum 500 grain loads.

I am often amused when reduced loads are discussed and often it is with 375 and up, that on AR and Australia's biggest guns/hunting forum someone with a 416 Rigby with 400 grain bullets at 2400 f/s says they don't believe in reduced loads

Mike, I agree with everything you said, except:

--The .45-70 is basically a lever gun? Not quite true (plenty of singles and doubles out there, and even the esoteric Siamese Mauser), but even if largely true, there are no flies on the Marlin 1895. I have a 1970s vintage model that I like very much.

--Simpler to have only one rifle? Why is fewer simpler, or more to your point, better? It's simpler even yet to have none! In my experience, more rifles is definitely better! Not sure about Australia, but here in the USA we can have as many as our checkbooks permit.

--Reduced loads? Factory loads in the .450 Rigby at 2,400 fps are loaded to relatively low pressures, so I assume that's what you're getting at. But the Rigby can be safely uploaded at least 100 fps in my CZ 550 Magnum with no issues.

--Lever guns are not as accurate as bolt rifles? Not in the case of my Marlin, at least at any range I care to shoot it.

But if the .458 WM floats your boat, then jump in and paddle. To each his own.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:

--Simpler to have only one rifle? Why is fewer simpler, or more to your point, better? It's simpler even yet to have none! In my experience, more rifles is definitely better! Not sure about Australia, but here in the USA we can have as many as our checkbooks permit.

Mike,

Much the same here except semi auto which is restricted and not available to most.

I suppose when I said simpler there was some Australian thinking there. Shooting in Australia tends to be high volume and varied and on the same day. Full powered 500 grain 458 loads are not really soemthing yoou want to shoot all day and every day at pigs etc. But if buffalo or scrub bulls are on the agenda then the 500 grain loads are there. So "simpler" is about carrying one rifle and different loads not owning one rifle.

In Australia I think it would be fairly accurate to say that anyone who owns a 375 and up, probably owns many rifles as he will be gun nut/enthusiast.

I have had Mark V 460s and direct involvement with many others. Also 450 Ackley but never a 458 Lott, never even fired one. However, where the 460 is really great and same applies to your 450 Rigby is doing 2300 f/s with 500 grain bullets is like cruising around in a big V8 manual wheras the 450 Ackey is straining itslef to death.

The 458 to me (and also others) is a bit like the 375 in the sense you are not looking for the last 50 f/s.

Mike, I see your point on one gun and multiple loads for varied game (and reduced loads for lesser game) when hunting.

Although I must say that I simply do not feel recoil at all in the field, so would probably be fine with the heavy load for everything in moderation.

Except maybe when shooting woodchucks or prairie dogs from prone! Kinda like a .223 for that.

What ? The final word on this .458 WINner thread cannot be so droll !




I do not have any action shots of me firing the .458 WIN from prone at varmints, but I have done so.
I have taken both marmot and moose with the .458 WIN.
It is a winner for any application.

Rip ...

And away we go with another 5000 posts!! yeehaw

The ill fame of the .458 can be directed at the source, Winchester Arms, who brought it out and claimed high velocity, and it had that and it created problems as the loads were apparently too hot, so Winchester secretly went to very mild loadings, and problems in the field did take place, with some loads in the 1800 fps category (right or wrong but was so reported I all the mags) and the flame grew..

My personal opinion is the 458 is a fine caliber for DG..I require my handloads and have never used factory stuf..I shot a 500 gr. bullet at 2000 to 2100 fps and that willkill anything..

Im also of the opine that the best option is the Lott, and give me one reason why not? Its easy to do, not expensive, and you have the option of a 500 gr. bullet at 2300 or more!! or to shoot factory ammo..That just makes since to me! Getting that thru some of the thick skulls around here is a waste of time,it just ain't gonna happen!!

The choir has gone home Ray, and you're preaching to empty pews!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Worth repeating. Wish I had said it:

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:
The choir has gone home Ray, and you're preaching to empty pews!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Rip ...

Maybe its the same choir that posts on that world class 458 1000 thread Rip case.. and maybe its these worthless threads that keep AR afloat, that's a good thing. so naysayer beware..

To throw out an old adage, there is no free lunch in physics. All things being equal, you obtain equal results. In regard to the belted magnum case with a 0.458” bullet seated, the case being 2.500” or 2.800” in length, if you are only talking about SAAMI spec chambers and pressures that dictate use of FACTORY ammunition and FACTORY rifles with FACTORY throat lengths, then an argument about handloads is off-base. It’s like comparing apples to oranges to throw handloads into the mix. If you are talking about custom rifles with x, y, or z magazine length with a custom throat, and handloads where the shorter cartridge is loaded longer than the longer cartridge, then of course the shorter cased cartridge will likely produce higher velocity. Or if the shorter cased cartridge is loaded to a higher pressure, then it will achieve higher velocity. The part of the discussion that doesn’t make sense is when someone uses this logic and another comes in and changes one or more variable to make themselves correct. That is why the other thread went on so long.

Case in point. “I can load my 458 WM to higher power than you can load your 458 Lott”. In response, “No you can’t. You can load your 458 with its 25” barrel and 3.6” magazine to outdo my factory 22” barreled 458 Lott that I don’t handload for...”. You can see that the variables are the most important part of the discussion here.

Gone are the days when one’s impression of a cartridge and it’s factory rifle counterpart is based on its performance on game. In our modern age, we have more “data” than most of us know what to do with

OK. I’ll pop some popcorn and see if this thread achieves the same level of “greatness” the last one did.

Wildcatter,

Go here for some sorting out of your confusion
near the bottom of page 199, in response to your similar reply there:

http://forums.accuratereloadin...441084952#2441084952


Rip ...

RIP

Go to the top of page 200 of the same thread and see my response. If you stop changing one variable at a time in your effort to be right, you will finally see the error of your thought process.

You do have tenacity, though, I’ll give you that!

Cheers

RC

quote:

Originally posted by Wildcatter:
To throw out an old adage, there is no free lunch in physics. All things being equal, you obtain equal results. In regard to the belted magnum case with a 0.458” bullet seated, the case being 2.500” or 2.800” in length, if you are only talking about SAAMI spec chambers and pressures that dictate use of FACTORY ammunition and FACTORY rifles with FACTORY throat lengths, then an argument about handloads is off-base. It’s like comparing apples to oranges to throw handloads into the mix. If you are talking about custom rifles with x, y, or z magazine length with a custom throat, and handloads where the shorter cartridge is loaded longer than the longer cartridge, then of course the shorter cased cartridge will likely produce higher velocity. Or if the shorter cased cartridge is loaded to a higher pressure, then it will achieve higher velocity. The part of the discussion that doesn’t make sense is when someone uses this logic and another comes in and changes one or more variable to make themselves correct. That is why the other thread went on so long.

Case in point. “I can load my 458 WM to higher power than you can load your 458 Lott”. In response, “No you can’t. You can load your 458 with its 25” barrel and 3.6” magazine to outdo my factory 22” barreled 458 Lott that I don’t handload for...”. You can see that the variables are the most important part of the discussion here.

Gone are the days when one’s impression of a cartridge and it’s factory rifle counterpart is based on its performance on game. In our modern age, we have more “data” than most of us know what to do with

OK. I’ll pop some popcorn and see if this thread achieves the same level of “greatness” the last one did.

Well said. I admire your expository skills and your patience.

Especially and particularly your patience.

Wildcatter,

I have pointed out your logical fallacy in my reply to your reply on page 200.
Beware if the Lottite Toady Michael "MR" Robinson toadies up to you on this issue.

Handload both the SAAMI-chambered .458 Lott and the SAAMI-chambered .458 Winchester Magnum, in the same rifle action and same barrel specifications,
compare apples to apples as you say,
with both being allowed 3.6" COL with the same bullet, and same maximum average pressure, and physics says the .458 WINchester Magnum wins.
No question.
No doubt.
Nothing to be argued about.

Of interest would be the special situations where the .458 WIN with shorter COL can beat the .458 Lott with longer COL, using the same bullet.

The no-brainer "apples to oranges" comparison is indeed the fact that a SAAMI-chambered .458 WIN can be loaded to 3.780" COL with a 500-grain Barnes TSX bullet and thoroughly trounce the SAAMI-chambered .458 Lott.
That means either higher velocity at same pressure,
or same velocity at lower pressure,
or split the baby and get both higher velocity and lower pressure with the .458 WIN.
Physics does not lie.

Rip ...

So what if you load the Lott “long”? If you can get it to fit in an action should hold more powder no? Go faster no? I do not really understand nor am I going to read ever page of other thread but appears to me comparing apples to oranges does come to mind...