Bertram certainly does make .700 Nitro brass as well as a limited run of .750 Nitro Brass. And woodleigh do make bullets.

Yeah but if it is only woodleigh who make bullets in caliber .700 then it isnt any good caliber. Because woodleigh only make 1000 grain bullets and they dont have any penetration at all if you use soft points.

OK they would still penetrate enough for what you and I shoot, moose & pigs etc. I still would not like to behind it

It is just a big impressive round.

PC,

This caliber works also on all birds

Ber007 what is the ballistics for the .700 ? I imagine it is not very flat shooting. I sit the most powerful sporting cartridge energy wise??

[ 06-13-2002, 15:35: Message edited by: PC ]

PC,

I think it a 1000 grain bullet at 2000 f/s with air rifle pressure.

If you loaded it up you would have the big power.

Mike

Karl is responsible for me blowing $4000 Aus on a .585 Nyatti

If I am to ever be financially secure Karl needs to leave this forum

PC,

Depends on the shooting distance.

Ber007 what is the ballistics for the .700 ? I imagine it is not very flat shooting. I sit the most powerful sporting cartridge energy wise??[/QUOTE]

PC,
Sounds like you are following my path but I knew the 700 was more powerful but just did not think I could get it built here at the time.

I think velocities would be similar to the 585 nyati at similar pressures but with a bullet 33% heavier obviously.

The 600 nitro on a strong action will of course beat the 585's as well.

If you want real big buy a replica black powder cannon.
I believe the limit is a 48" barrel here so the 12 pounder(I think) civil war mountain howitzer is right on the money.
200,000ftlbs plus muzzle energy.
Aim it up the hill to where the roos are sitting
and let go with a shotload of 300, 58 calibre balls. Should be good for out to a couple hundred yards.

Karl

I need a cannon now

I especially liked your analogy about not getting involved with the military calibres due to the "there is something bigger out their"

The .585 will do me for a while I think, I am getting a "tactical Rifle" next in .338 lapua Mag for all my long range requirements

My mate and I are thinking about some donkey & camel shooting next year with our .585's might strike you up there Karl.

Overkill,

I have to disagree with you. I have found that on animals which weigh more than 500 pounds, energy does not matter at all. Momentum and bore diameter (and expanded bullet diameter) have a much greater effect on those animals than energy. (I am excluding all spine/neck and brain shots, because for those the energy and momentum are both meaningless).

I'm told many of the people with 700NE,s have ignition problems. Those Fed 215's just can't light off that big a charge reliably. My old buddy Mark Sullivan has one and I think had to put about 25 grs of Bullseye in the case to get it to go off. He apparantly took it to Africa and the Bullseye moved in the powder charge and same problem occured. In any event the 700 BMG IMPROVED has far more horsepower is based on a case you can actually get your hands on and if a CCI-50 or RWS primer won't ignite it it's probably wet!
Just think about one of these mounted on an Aussie Diesel Landcruiser and cruising the NT. No Buff, Dingo or Roo will be safe at any distance! Although from my experience there you won't be shooting more than 50-200 yrds. Near misses will be adequate! I get goose bumps just thinking about it!-Rob

Rob,

I think Saeed had hangfires working loads up for his 700 Nitro.

Mike

700 NE on Hagn action (Hartmann & Weiss) although same thing in 577 would be more practical.

But what action will take a 700 IMPROVED...? And who sell 50 BMG cases and how do you neck up them to .700? or can you buy brass for the 700 IMPROVED.

Yeah the penetration will be enough for a 150 kg moose but what about a big bear or a 300-350 kg moose? But it would be good with a 1200 grain sp bullet in the .700

What do you guys think the MAX velocity is in a .700 Nitro Express...?

Robgunbuilder?

What velocity do you think is possible with the .600 Nitro Express in a strong action?

Guys i have been thinking again
Look at this.

A .700 Nitro Express 1000 grain at 2400 f/s will give 17360 joule. If you load maybe MAX to 2500 f/s with a 1000 grain bullet it will have 18800 joule. And with a 1200 grain bullet at 2000 f/s it will have 14450 joule.

A .600 Nitro Express 900 grain bullet at 2300 f/s (if possible) it will have a energy of 14320 joule. If 2400 f/s is possible with this cartridge then the energy will be 15600 joule.

A .577 TYRANNOSAUR alright alright i know but i love this cartridge

It will have a energy of 17000 joule. With a 750 grain bullet at 2750 f/s. This velocity is possible to get with a hard solid bullet even 2780 f/s i think if you load it very hard. Then it will have a energy of 17500 joule.

I think that if you want more power than a .577 TYRANNOSAUR can give. Then the only way is a .600 or .700 IMPROVED.

OK when the time arrives which calibre are you leaning towards for your big bore??

Karl,

Consider the 700/577 Westley Richards. Now that is a cartridge!

While I am dreaming, make it in a WR droplock double, and a second rifle in a Farqhuarson single shot to work up loads in. Make the double light and sporty, and the single shot heavy and long barreled, for anti-materiel applications and crowd pleasing max loads. Sigh ... I could go for that. You already have a stash of bullets of the proper caliber for that.

Or, how about a 700/510. That would be getting close to the 50 BMG, and allow you to use the hunting bullets or armor piercing incindiary milsurp bullets, or even depleted uranium if you could find 'em. That one turns my crank too. And it would be based on a sporting cartridge, not military.

Looks like an Aussie thread.

Karl
700nitro - black powder requires to much cleaning

troopy = fauna faunacator

never owned a troopy but did have a Range Rover with a 400Chev in it for a few years and that worked well, more energy also 2350kg - heavier than a troopy.

The 700/577 Westley Richards is just the same as a .577 TYRANNOSAUR both can shoot a 900 grain bullet at 2300 f/s.

But what will a rifle in that caliber cost 30 000 Dollar.

And what 900 grain bullet are Westley Richards load in their 700/577...? Is there any who make 900 grain bullets in caliber 577/585

Karl...! What caliber are you thinking about?

woodeligh did a limited run but they will not make any more, there to hard to make apparantly.

Guys...!

What do you guys think about a 900 grain Hawk bullet with 0,65 mm jacket. They will make custom bullets. Look at this link and it is not 5000 bullets at a minimum order.

http://www.hawkbullets.com/custom.htm

A 900 grain Hawk bullet at 2000 f/s from a 585 NYATI or 2200 f/s from a 577 TYRANNOSAUR will expand to a very big diameter.

OK did the also make them in .035" jacket thickness, they would open up even better.

Ron,
You have got me thinking. Pity I could not own a straight 50 Cal BMG in my state-I wouldn't mind just for the hell of it.
One chap was getting aorund it by slightly modifying the chamber or something, since the laws are " must not be able to chamber and fire the 50 BMG itself,- anything else is okay.
So a 50 necked up necked down, shortened etc on a BMG action are okay.
What are the easiest mods one could do to cases/ chamber to modify it and still have a 50 BMG'ish type rifle?

Rob, bring it over, I will arrange the vehicle and targets(moving of course ))

Lastly,we congratualte Overkill as he progresses slowly as a gun magazine reader.
He is still in the 'penetration hang up stage' and has just 'discovered' hawk custom bullets for all of us

PC the coursts are still out on the final decision. I'm not rushing into this one.

Karl.

Karl,

Many many years ago, military calibers were not legal in NSW.

So apart from the 303/25 there was the 7.7 X 54.

That was the 303 with a slightly shortened case to prevent the rifle chambering 303 ammo.

I think there are some 50 BMG wildcats that used an improved shortened case.

What about this for a suggestion.

You have your 585 Nyati altered to be a big game style rifle as you first posted.

Then you get another CZ 550 and have it in chambered in the 416 version of the 408 Chey Tac. This caliber is basically the 505 necked to 416 and Improved and I think Bell make the proper high pressure brass for it.

The forum www.longrangehunting.com has plenty of info on it. This caliber keeps bullet above the speed of sound further out than the 50 BMG and hence has a longer accuracy range.

When you are at the range with the 585 and the big round noses loping along and the bloke next you sounds of about his 338/378 or whatever, you go to the car and get the other one out

Now this would give two rifles based on the same action but of entirely different character, both based on sporting caliber and the 505/416 being able to beat the 50 BMG at its own game and from a conventional rifle.

Seriously, the 700 Nitro would be the most usless piece of shit you could have, especially since it will be such a poor and distant cousin the H&H Royal Double in 700 Nitro.

Mike

[ 06-15-2002, 08:18: Message edited by: Mike375 ]

Mike & Karl the Ar-30 .338 LM I am going to get with it's .750" bolt could make a great basis for one of these .416/.505's.

I was also thinking what about taking 3.25" Bertram .585 unfromed Brass and necking it either to .510 or .416 putting. It would be custome wildcat I suppose and you would include a nice sharp shoulder similar to the Lapua Mag round. I know Bertram Brass is shit but you would still get it scooting along. Would this be possible??

PC,
I thought about the 338 Lapua also but for an engagement rifle I would like to have um...real good elephant hunting solids and speer no longer makes them in 338 I believe.

I was thinking about necking my own case down to 338 or 375 as well but yeah the brass had me worried.You don't get a rifle like that to have the brass take any advantage off it whatsoever.

Mike, surfed the site- is there already a 416 version of the chey tac, or did you mean to DIY so to speak?


Karl.

PC...!

There you have it. Buy 650 or 750 grains Hawk bullet with the 0,35 mm jacket. Then it would expand on every thing.

Karl! What will be your next caliber...?

Karl,

Go here:

http://www.prairiegunworks.com/

This bloke posts here and longrange.

The 416 is a real thing. I believe the 408 is made to satisfy some caliber regulation for 1000 yard shooting. Probably the bore diameter can't be over .4 so a groove diamter of .408 would be fine.

The bloke that makes Jensen bullets is right into the thing....Warren Jensen.

Mike

Would it be possible to neck the .700 Nitro case down to .510 to shoot the 750 A maxes??

You would have that short fat efficient cartridge wouldn't you.

I think the case capacity would be greater than the .BMG case.

Karl is your other half getting you a rifle instead of a ring (engagement)

Sounds like you have stumbled on to the perfect women

I'd have it made into a 308win

Johan

Neck down a full lenght .50 BMG to .338 and you'll have .338 Talbot. This caliber works

http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/w33850.html

You'll have a very powerful .338, RCBS make dies to increase shoulder angle to 35�

Shot over 3000 yards!!!!!

Barrel life would be average, I'd reckon!!!

Karl.
Maybe the next step would be the russian 14,5 mm
case blown out so to get a .850 Nitro Express pushing 1500 grain bullets to 2400-2500 fps !
Well enough of this.
Karl, could you tell me when we will see your .585 Gehringer load data on the screen ?

Per "waiting"577

Yeah Karl i forget to ask you about what velocity you get in your .585 NYATI 3"...?

Per, join your countries army and you will get to play with toys that are 100 times more powerful than anything on this site.

And when you are relaxing in your spare time you will pick up a favourite 416 rigby and have a lot more fun with it.



I am away from home for a few more months so maybe after October I will be able to finish my load developement.

Regards,
Karl.