I'm thinking of downsizing my 18lb 585 target stlye rifle into a proper bigbore hunting outfit. Wood stock to replace kevlar, minus a lot of weight, lose m/brake and shorten barrel etc for a water buff hunt.

This will leave room for a new impractical monster.

For the 'ultimate bigbore'; that is, a 'sporting calibre' (ie not a military catridge or mil based/jdj/dkt wildcatetc. )I've narrowed the feild down to two.
So I'm asking the board what they would consider the ultimate stopper/crowd pleaser of the..

2 bore (loaded low enough to be fired). Smoothbore muzzleloader, maybe double barrel.

and the 700 nitro
Custom single shot.

Jump in -even the new guys

Regards,
Karl.

[ 06-11-2002, 16:23: Message edited by: Karl ]

Karl,

700 Nitro would get my vote everyday.

Mike

Hi Karl.

A 50 BMG case opened up to caliber .600 or .700 will be a Big Bore.

Alan from Corp Trading told me you had been enquiring about a new hair brained project

I reckon you need to get a 2 bore Karl, is not that the most fearsome non-military thing you can fire from your shoulder.

Get Alan to make you up a set of Carbon-fibre/Kevlar Retina's as well

My vote is for the 2 bore but no pussy half loads, will you sight in off a bipod

In all seriousness you will be left wondering what could have been if you get the .700 Nitro.

[ 06-11-2002, 16:40: Message edited by: PC ]

Oh, i read wrong. No military cartridges and no wildcat.

Then the .700 Nitro Express is the biggest i think. Forget the 2-Bore. It doesn�t have much energy and a .700 with 1200 grains soft nose bullet will make a much bigger wound channel in your buffalo.

Karl,
I'd say you already have it, in that your .585 will out penetrate the larger calibers. You'll be converting your .585 into a real hunting rifle. With your physical stature and a well thought out custom hunting stock, those waterbuffalo are in for it!

Karl,

Why not a .600 NE or a .577 NE?

Karl,
If the choice was mine, I would definately go for a falling-block Farquharson-type .600 or .577 NE.
// J.G

I'm afraid I would have to go with the 2 bore. Then just see how much I could stand to shoot it!!

Hands down, it would have to be the 2 bore. While it may not quite compete with the modern NE rounds, there is something appealing about a big smoke pole.

I'm still debating getting a 12 ga double muzzleloader to make into a howdah.

The data out there on the full case .700 BMG Improved is truly amazing. How does 3102fps with a 1000gr bullet sound to you? You could use a Mcmillan repeater action and assuming you can make a stock to fit it be in buisness with minimal expenditure. I've seen a single shot-shell holder built on a Mcmillan stock that weighed in at about 15 lbs for this thing. I'm sure you would get any self-respecting Buff's attentionn with this. A 700 Ne or 2 Bore would just seem boring in comparison. -Rob

You guys got it bad ... Real Bad!

Definitely a 2 bore with exploding bullets, or see if you could beat Saeed to the 1.008" Vincent Buffalo Thumper. Components are going to be tough to find.

My vote goes to the 700 NE. The reloading components are much easier to come by. I have yet to see a 2 bore cartridge for sale.

4 bore double!!!
otherwise, the 700, off a barett action, 5 round clip, ... gun would only 17#... but the brake would weigh another 20!!!!
jeffe

Robgunbuilder...!

Do you know if Mcmillan have a home page? And who make 1200 grain bullets in caliber .700 ?

Thanks...

Masochists! All over the forum! Aggrevated in that section!

To be honest Robs .700 BMG improved with a 1000 gr bullet at 3120 fps sounds fantastic. I would like to build that one day.

.700 BMG improved with a 1000 gr bullet at 3120 fps sounds fantastic.

Come on guys!!! For more fun as you like, the 20mm vulcan is better

Ber007 That is the reason I have chickened out from going for a military wildcat.
Simply there is always one bigger out there! All the way up to 16" cannons on battleships.

Did consider the ultimate 70 BMG as Rob mentioned (and 727BMG as one chap did them here I beleieve) but eventually settled on the 'sporting calibre' limit to keep myself sane

Would seem to make sense to keep the 585 as the abomination and build a hunting rifle off a true classic cartridge as JG and others suggested.
But bigger than 585 is one of the priorities and 600 is too close.

The 700nitro is no problem to handle, and effects and performance can be extrapolated from the ones below it- eg mine, the 600 nitro etc.

The 2 bore is as usual in the mystery realms- .
Can't compete with anything modern for hydrodynamic shock etc. but a 1.36" minimum wound channel until the ball stops is good performance for any solid.

This gun would be a pure novelty and not able to carried in the true sense of a hunt.
Looks like 36lbs minimum just to keep a half pound of lead at 1000fps, under 150ftlbs recoil.
4 bores still in use today generate up to 150ftlbs from 20-25lb guns when used at max so this is not unrealistic.

Getting 1300fps out of a 2 bore and recoil almost doubles- so does the powder charge from rough estimates.
(Overkill this is more energy than your favourite T Rex figures )
And PC, no I don't intend to fire it

Pretty poor trajectory and accuracy from a smoothbore so I have considered the possibility of using a shotload to increase the effective range- you don't here that often

How about 60 OO buck pellets at a deer under 100 yards, or even 18, 50 cal balls at a water buff from handgun ranges? That would be an eye opener!

RAB,
Wonder if it is possible to make such projectiles? I believe they used fulminates to do so-standard percussion compounds of the day?
I would be worried about detonations in the barrel or enroute to the target sending lead back my way.

Karl.

Karl what do you mean when you say your .585 is an abomination??

I thought you loved it.

Karl...!

The 2-Bore 19600 Joule.

The .700 BMG IMPROVED 29300 joule.

The .577 TYRANNOSUR 17000 joule.

The .700 and the .577 will give a much bigger wound channel in a animal with soft points than a 2-Bore.

The MOMENTUM is not any god number for bullet power. Foot pounds energy and Joule is much better.

Look at this...

A 5 kg stone at 200 f/s have almost the same Momentum as a 2-bore. And i think that a 2-bore will hit a animal harder than a stone that i can throw. Look at this the 5 kg stone at 200 f/s has a energy of 1000 joule and the 2-Bore 19600 joule. I think that Joule and foot pound energy is more for real.

What do you think...?

Overkill,

What are the figures for .585 Nyati?

Karl,

On another thread I have just explained the finer points of a Landcruiser when the 270 does not work.

Are you thinking that 2 bore or 700 can dispense with the Landcruiser.

Of course if you were "harvesting" animals that would be different.

Mike

PC- not seriously an abomonation.
I built the rifle around maximum loads at the bench. You have seen it, it is hardly a safari peice. But it will be.

Overkill,
Not sure why you are talking about momentum and wound channels and comparing the 2 bore to the 70 BMG

Your comment above was "the 2 bore does not have much energy"
My reply to you was "it has more energy than the 577 T.Rex" and this is hardly "not much energy".
As you proved in your figures thanks very much.

Karl.

Mike do our fellow shooters from other countries know what our Aussie Land Cruisers look Like??

If I had a digital Camera I would take a picture of mine and post it. It's a 1999 75 series diesel tray back. It has a roll cage over it, Bull bar, dual tanks, dual batteries, ARB diff locks, stainless water tank, and the spotlight goes through the roof next fortnight. I will never own any other veichle but a Land Cruiser I just reckon there great. I would love the 78 seies with the extra bit of cabin space though.

Mike well the landcruiser has a taylor KO of at least 1.5 million which is hard to go past.
Of course the momentum is enormous although the velocity is low.
I bet if overkill was standing in front of one with his 5kg rock, it would not cause a large would channel due to its poor kinetic energy.

Karl.

Karl and PC,

Lets not forget a salute to the Emu.

He has to be one of the few animals that a Landcruiser will not stop. Straight under and out the other end and then still runs.

Mike

PC,

On the stipped wheat the ex speedway sedan with the 350 Chev is far better than any Landcruiser.

Mike

Mike375,

What do you think about my Volskwagen Polo?

Big enough?

Never calculate the TKO value of this

BER007,

Sounds fine if:

We have lights.

We have water.

We have loading gear.

We have rifle rests.

It would also be helpful if we have runover capability.

Mike

Karl...!

You said that you are going to hunt buff with your new monster rifle. Then i tought that you were interested in the effect. And a 700 IMPROVED will have a much better effect on buff than a 2-Bore. If you use expanding bullets. I am sorry if i misunderstand Karl.

PC...!

585 Nyati.

Muzzle energy is 14670 joule. (750 grain bullet at 2550 f/s)

Karl.

I forget one thing. I thought that it was because the high momentum that you thought that a 2-Bore will be god. That is why i say that momentum isnt any god number for stopping power.

What velocity do you get with your 3" Nyati...?

The old Bush Chooks

[ 06-13-2002, 03:43: Message edited by: PC ]

Overkill,
No I said I was taking the 585 on the buff hunt. The monster rifle will be the crowd pleaser.
Very large miliatry wildcats whilst a lot of fun don't do it for me so much these days.
In the army you have 50 BMG's, RPG's, mounted auto 50cals, all the way up to really big stuff around you.

Anything you can own as a private weapon(including the 700BMG)is right at the small end of the scale compared to what is out there.

Sporting calibres don't have to compete since they aren't in the same category, have a hunting history etc.

Karl.

Which way are you leaning towards Karl??

Karl (great name too BTW),
I had a 75 series troopy, yep, she was a one shot stopper ...

I couldn't imagine shooting either calibre for fun, but my vote would be the .700 nitro. I don't know why, just not into the "bores"....
Problem down here is brass and componants I guess, but we'll have that issue with anything over half inch.

HDU,

We should be better off than the Americnas or Europeans with a 700 Nitro as I am sure Bertram makes brass and Woodleigh makes bullets.

Mike

Great does that mean we can claim the .700 as an "Australian cartridge".

I can just see a typical Western Cocky telling his mate at the pub...."Yep, bought me-self one of them new super 'roo rifles....." Just need to make one on an Lithgow action (not) to be real dinky-di.

HDU,

We may as well claim it. There is a bloke in Sydney with a H&H oyal Double in 700 Nitro. Big dollars.

If I had one I would try and shoot short at roos and see if I could bounce the bullet onto them

Mike