I was considering getting a single shot 45-70 and using some of my real GOEX, not wanting the recoil of full loads, i wondered how low can you go and still be safe. i know the government used to use a reduced "calvary" load for that lighter weight version of the rifle in 45-70

thanks

are we talking Fg or FFFFg?

i would NOT even remotely consider actually using BP these days, largely due to cleanup ..
but that's just my opinion

instead, i would use trailboss for reduced loads in the 45/70 ... or just use starting loads from the trapdoor section of loading manuals in whatever powder i have to hand

FF, I know it’s dirty i reload 12 gauge with it
Thanks

I find real BP cleans up more easily than did many of the Substitutes.

A fantastic reference on the subject is available here:

https://www.amazon.com/Loading...arbine/dp/157579019X

Highly recommend it.

I have a TD Carbine and load 405 hollow bases in it. That is the carbine load as opposed to the 500 grain Rifle loads.

I used to shoot Cast Bullet Rifle Silhouette events with it at the LASC range. Loads of fun.

Using Fg will reduce velocities a fair amount, but with BP there shouldn't be any air space in the case. If you want to load less than a case full you ought to use a filler of some sort, which is another whole topic by itself. My favorite is packing foam, the spongy stuff, also known as "backer rod". Fiber, cork, or felt wads work OK in the straight case 45-70 too; just be sure there's no air space below the seated bullet.

Another separate topic: I find real BP to be about the easiest thing to clean up ever, though I will admit that the additional need to wash/brush out every single piece of brass is a pain sometimes.

BPSteve,

exactly, no air space between powder and bullet when loading BP or most substitutes. One reason I recommend Spence Wolf's book. While he writes specifically with loading for the Trapdoor Springfield, most of what he writes is applicable to other rifles as well. The main difference being that you could use other than a Hollow Base 405 is for example Henry or other break action single shot.

I used to dump my fired cases in to a water bottle with a little dish soap mixed in while at the range, then drained and rinsed the cases before tumbling. Did make clean up a lot easier.

Original .45-70 Govt. loads were with 405-gr lead bullet
Rifle: 70 grains BP
Carbine: 55 grains BP

I'd say GOEX FFg would be good for that.

Cardboard wads were originally used in the Carbine loads as filler, until they started seating the bullet much deeper in the Carbine load.
This made them distinguishable at a glance,
short COL Carbine, long COL Rifle.

You won't get best results unless you have some compression of the BP.
Then it can be as consistent or better than most smokeless loads.
Use the cardboard wads if seating the bullet deep is not enough to compress the powder at least a little bit.
If you can get some compression by seating without wads,
punched wads from Cut Rite wax paper, one thickness of the paper, may be used over the powder before bullet seated, keeps grease lube away from powder.

One of sharpsguy's best loads is almost 1/2" compressed, using his 475-gr bullet with about 66 grains of GOEX FFg, IIRC.
That bullet is seated very deeply.
Only a single thickness of wax paper between bullet and powder.

I found this was easy enough for me to accomplish with proper dies.

Be prepared to use a blowtube and wipe the bore after each shot or two if you want great accuracy.
It gets complicated after this, with what lubes and what temperature and relative humidity, etc.,
some oldtimers shot strings of 50 shots without even wiping.
They used paper-patch bullets that wiped the bore with each shot.

Make sure you know your groove diameter.
.457", .458", or .459" are most common.
You're grease-groove bullet (or powder-coat-painted bullet) should be sized 0.002" bigger than groove diameter, and medium-to-hard cast.
Paper patched bullets should be patched up to groove diameter, and medium-to-soft cast as even pure lead to no more than 20:1 lead:tin hardness.

Experiment and you may find something different.

BP clean-up is easy with hot water!
The BPCR brass case cleanup is the booger. See tips above.

If you have any leading problems until you get things sorted out, use some 0000 steel wool on a jag and some patches with Shooter's Choice Lead Remover/bore cleaning solvent.

thanks for the info

Dueler, repeat: Absolutely no air space with black powder. It is an explosive, not a propellant. Huge difference. Please, please use filler -- and consider using a premium black powder such as Swiss or Old Eynesford, both of which burn cleaner.

thanks

The 45-70 does have a reputation as being quite a thumper on the shoulder so maybe try a pistol cartridge in a rifle instead of the 45-70.
I have a Miroku built Winchester 1873 in 45 Colt it shoots great with a 250 gr Lyman 452664 bullet cast with 20:1 lead:tin alloy.
35.5 grs of Old Eynsford 2 fg or 3 fg and a CCI 350 LP primer. I get in the 1240’s fps from a 24” barrel. Hogdon’s CFE-Pistol goes just a bit faster.

Clean up is no problem faster and easier than smokeless.

Or if you want a more powerful cartridge take a look at a Ruger #1 in 450 Bushmaster.

https://ruger.com/products/no1/specSheets/21304.html

You could burn 2 fg BP in this cartridge and it would be similar to the 45-70 Cavalry load.
Stainless steel to help with corrosion worries. I would just remove the muzzle brake and cover the exposed barrel threads.
The 5R rifling should help with barrel clean up of BP fouling and lead removal if any occurs.

Try 40gr of 3F a couple of wads and a round ball, basically the same load you would use in a 45 cal muzzle loader.

Just use a 300 grain bullet and a case full of 2fg; that will be a light load. Or a couple of card wads under it. Make sure the case is full.
As for clean up being an issue; NONSENSE!!!
Real black powder is not really very corrosive; all the old guns that were damaged is due to the corrosive caps. It is just a bit hygroscopic.
Water will dissolve bp fouling easily, and vinegar will clean cartridge cases immediately. Water is the US Army approved solvent; do not use any type of petroleum product; that will not dissolve it.
Of course, oil it after cleaning.
I use a 10% duplex load using 5744 and get zero fouling.
Many of the substitutes, most notably Pyrodex are far more corrosive than BP,
So, do not be afraid of it. It is what these guns were designed for.