Saeed:
During the "big drought" of 1981/82 just before Hurricane Demoina we had to remove 80% of the game on our conservancy to protect the core of our herds. I had to take 117 giraffe in about 6 weeks. It was during this that one day I emptied my 375 on a giraffe bull and had to walk home to get more ammo as I ran out. I never thought it would take more than 5 shots to dow the bull.

it was also around this time that my father shot a elephant with my 44 mag revolver in self defence. On the same day Nature conservation shot a elephant out of the same herd and it took 11 shots to put him down.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
...
I would take the Rigby over the Remington any day.

In fact, that is exactly why I developed our 375/404 instead of using the 375 H&H.

I prefer a bit more velocity, without having to keep everything at maximum pressure.

If velocity is desired, then the hand loaded Rigby over the Remington.
If 'book' velocity is adequate, then the Ruger comes in a smaller package.
(As for running out of ammo, a backpack or ammo holder should carry what is needed. A person usually only fires 1, 2 or max 3 without a chance to reload in a hunting [non-culling] situation.)

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
If that minute difference in bolt throw is a problem someone needs to give up hunting and sell shoes downtown, cuz cousins he can't chew gum and walk at the same time!!

As to the difference in a 416 Ruger or Remington, I see none at all..I like them both, and I want them shooting a 400 gr. bullet at 2350 to 2400 FPS with a dollop of RL-15 and my guns do that with 78 grs. and that's my load. and 80 to 82 grs. is absolute max in most modern guns that Ive worked with.. If that's too much recoil then I'd opt for my .375 H&H or a 375 Ruger.

Ray, I guess that would have to include WDM Bell, Mike LaGrange and dozens of other very highly experienced African PH's.
You are correct that it doesn't seem to make any difference on the range but I can guarantee you that when you are seriouly under stress with something trying to kill you, little differences like that take on a lot more importance.

Thinking out loud

What is the bolt stroke on a 404 , 416 or 375 built on a standard Mauser Action ? Many many rifles were built on non magnum actions. I personally have two old 404's and a old 375 built on non magnum length actions.

The Short Kurtz action Mauser was 8.125 inches long plus minus.

The intermediate action which made up all the early Rigby 275's was 8.5 inches long.

The standard Mauser was 8.25 inches long and the Magnum is just over 9 inches. So a half an inch between a Rigby 416 and a Rigby 275 ? just wondering what the issue was ?

I suppose Id have to challenge that, I can't imagine short stroking a bolt action rifle, I have been in a number of stressful position with DG over the years without commenting such a horrendous mistake..

On the real side that may be because I have been shooting bolt action rifles for all my life from a very young time, Im sure that is a factor. I suspect a person who has not spent a good deal of time hunting and shooting could short stroke a bolt action confronting a big bear or Cape Buffalo, in fact such a person could toss the gun to hell and gone and skedaddle the emediate vicinity. as well, but only after he spit out his gum!

Firstly I would go with the 416 Rigby as it is a more common cartridge and ammo would be more readily available if you were in a buffalo camp. I am just talking theoretical here, though I did own a 416 Rigby that I played with a lot.

Secondly - the number you mention would show clearly that you could achieve them with a 404 Jeffery and save 1 lb in weight of the rifle, use a standard length action and still have a classic DG rifle.

The 404 Jeffery was introduced as a bolt action rifle to duplicate the Double 450/400 NE - 400 gr bullet at 2150 fps.

Thirdly the 404 Jeffery can be loaded up to 2300 fps.

Jeffery,
Both calibers are easy to load down to 2100 or a bit less, most reloading books show minimum loads and you load below those with most, but not all powders..

Phil,
One thing Im sure of, you am talking to yer clients, I know damn well you would never or ever have short stroked a bolt in a stressful situation!!

Ray, like you I know more than I care to about stressful situations.
But short stroking, and other ills that befall those who are not intimately familiar with their rifles when placed under stress are VERY REAL !

And I have over 200 rounds of slightly reduced 416 Rem loads for my daughter to start training her muscle with when she switches over from her 375 Ruger to her Echol's 416 Rem this spring.

I guided with the 416 R.E.M. In a NULA for a decade or so. 6.25lbs without scope. Shot 350 tsx thru it at 2550 fps. Loved it. Sold it and went to a 416 ruger "guide" gun. Sent it off and had it turned into a actual guides gun. It's 5lbs 11oz with my peep sight on. Went to a 300 grain tsx at 2650fps. Love it.
Never had a short stroke issue with any of the three 416's I've ran. I just can't imagine loading it DOWN. Why on earth would someone want to reduce the potential of a cartridge?
On a side note, none have had a muzzle break. If you have to brake it, your gun is to big in my opinion. Plenty of offerings out there,
From stock styles, loads and different calibers to make a more
Manageable tool for someone.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
Ray, like you I know more than I care to about stressful situations.
But short stroking, and other ills that befall those who are not intimately familiar with their rifles when placed under stress are VERY REAL !

And I have over 200 rounds of slightly reduced 416 Rem loads for my daughter to start training her muscle with when she switches over from her 375 Ruger to her Echol's 416 Rem this spring.

There certainly has been a lot of anecdotal evidence of the unexpected happening when hunters on safari have found themselves in stressful positions, usually when facing a charging animal. I have read of some who have cycled the bolt enough to empty the magazine when they already had a chambered round ready to shoot. Others , including a famous American movie star, who have opened the magazine floor plate and dumped the rounds on the ground when facing a charge.
Indeed my own Mauser 404 came from Rhodesia with the magazine floor plate glued shut, a practice recommended by some for magazine rifles used on DG in Africa. My Mauser floor plate, once unglued, has never opened on firing so the gluing was seemingly done to prevent accidental opening rather than to correct a fault.

I have seen several examples of 'balls ups' in the field when just hunting ordinary game let alone I imagine what would happen to some when stressed around potentially dangerous game so I guess anything that can be done to take the idiot out of firearms handling in the field in Africa would be worthwhile, short of taking the idiot hunters themselves out. Some might recommend the latter.

Lots of things can happen in the field, I would venture to say 99% of them are by hunters who are not familiar with there guns, havn't shot or hunted a great deal..I shot all manor of gums lever, pump, and bolt mostly and on occasion an auto..The operation of these guns have seldom mal function from a fault of mine, but have seen and I have built some big bores that recoil opened the Mauser box, replaced them with a stronger spring..Had a 3 pos safety hang up on a gun I stocked but did not do the metal work, same with feeding problems, but these guns seldom left without through testing, even then I got a few back to fix, it just happens on rare occasions....The bottom line is I never had one ruin a safari that I know of..Know your gun and know yourself before you go on an expensive hunt, most of this stuff can be fixed prior to that hunt with just a bit of effort...

I realize some hunters just won't. cannot find the time to be prepared and those are the ones folks here seem to be addressing on this thread, as it should be. I probably posted in regards to myself and my opinnions as to myself. I apolize for that in that if your one of those who is highly involved in shooting and hunting you don't need advise.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Lots of things can happen in the field, I would venture to say 99% of them are by hunters who are not familiar with there guns, havn't shot or hunted a great deal..I shot all manor of gums lever, pump, and bolt mostly and on occasion an auto..The operation of these guns have seldom mal function from a fault of mine, but have seen and I have built some big bores that recoil opened the Mauser box, replaced them with a stronger spring..Had a 3 pos safety hang up on a gun I stocked but did not do the metal work, same with feeding problems, but these guns seldom left without through testing, even then I got a few back to fix, it just happens on rare occasions....The bottom line is I never had one ruin a safari that I know of..Know your gun and know yourself before you go on an expensive hunt, most of this stuff can be fixed prior to that hunt with just a bit of effort...

I realize some hunters just won't. cannot find the time to be prepared and those are the ones folks here seem to be addressing on this thread, as it should be. I probably posted in regards to myself and my opinnions as to myself. I apolize for that in that if your one of those who is highly involved in shooting and hunting you don't need advise.

Ray,
No argument with any of that really, but when I went to Africa in 1999, I took the time to be prepared and had done quite of bit of shooting over the years. Nevertheless, it was my first African trip, and I was a little off base. As it happened I short stroked a model 70 375 shooting at an Impala. Just happened. I didn't have that problem when taking a Buffalo later on the same trip. Only time I've ever done that. It certainly wouldn't (and didn't) stop me from using a long-throw bolt gun again.

I would suggest the Rem Mag for the following reasons:

1. More choices in reasonably priced factory rifles. Winchester, Remington, Kimber come to mind. On a side note, I'm guessing the .416 Rigby has an equal or greater number of factory rifles chambered in it. I can think of CZ and Sako off the top of my head.

2. No real-world ballistic advantage to either. I believe all previous posts have covered this in depth.

3. Brass availability. .416 Rem Mag brass is based off of the .375 H&H. You will never run out of options for converting brass with minimal effort. If the Ruger brass gets dropped, you could be in for very high prices on remaining brass, or looking at a major production in order to make brass from another case.

4. There is very little chance that if your ammo is lost in route you will be able to replace it at a bush camp. You might find .375 H&H ammo, but nothing is ever a given on safari. Even with prior coordination.

I chose the Rem Mag for myself and have never regretted it.

The ruger, Remington and rigby all have their advantages. Rigby offers larger powder capacity and nostalgia. The Remington fits into conventional long actions and is based on H&H brass, and rifles in it come at a nominal weight. The ruger offers an option for shorter action restricted rifles and comes in lighter packages. The rigby guns tend to weigh more, so that may turn off some. The ruger guns are fairly new still, and no one knows if ruger will hold on to them or let them whither on the vine. If they do drop it, there isn't much for options to make brass for it. Its also not very easy to find ammo for it still. One local gun shop(one of the largest in the state) had a 416 ruger for sale, but went almost a year with no ammo for it. The Remington has brass made from H&H belted cases, 8mm rem mag to be more exact but you can make it from other cases via fireforming, etc. Pretty common for 416 caliber guns, granted you wont find it at Walmart, but if you own one, you aren't buying ammo at Walmart either. I have a m70 in 416 rem, no complaints here.

Interesting thing, since the 416 ruger came out, you hear less and less about pressure issues of the 416 rem. The ruger has to work harder to do what the Remington does, and with modern powders, the Remington can safely push past the original standard of 400gr/2400fps.

I had forgotten all the conversations about the pressure issues on the 416 Rem. That wouldn't present a problem for me, as I'd likely load it to about the level of a 450/400. Several people here have now expressed concern about the future of 416 Ruger brass availability. That's not something I'd been thinking of. This last July, hunting plains game in Namibia, I had a conversation about the 416 Ruger with the PH (Jan, with Sebra Safaris). He said it was not too common there. The 375 Ruger was doing very well, however, and had been widely adopted. At least that was his perception of it. He carried a Ruger guide gun in 375 Ruger. We weren't hunting any dangerous game.

quote:

Originally posted by streetglideok:
The ruger, Remington and rigby all have their advantages. Rigby offers larger powder capacity and nostalgia. The Remington fits into conventional long actions and is based on H&H brass, and rifles in it come at a nominal weight. The ruger offers an option for shorter action restricted rifles and comes in lighter packages. The rigby guns tend to weigh more, so that may turn off some. The ruger guns are fairly new still, and no one knows if ruger will hold on to them or let them whither on the vine. If they do drop it, there isn't much for options to make brass for it. Its also not very easy to find ammo for it still. One local gun shop(one of the largest in the state) had a 416 ruger for sale, but went almost a year with no ammo for it. The Remington has brass made from H&H belted cases, 8mm rem mag to be more exact but you can make it from other cases via fireforming, etc. Pretty common for 416 caliber guns, granted you wont find it at Walmart, but if you own one, you aren't buying ammo at Walmart either. I have a m70 in 416 rem, no complaints here.

Interesting thing, since the 416 ruger came out, you hear less and less about pressure issues of the 416 rem. The ruger has to work harder to do what the Remington does, and with modern powders, the Remington can safely push past the original standard of 400gr/2400fps.

If brass availability is a concern, I would buy a few hundred to several hundred, same for 416 Rem, 375 Ruger, 375 H&H, and 458 Win.
I have seen times when all the above and others were hard to locate.

I am glad to see the 375 Ruger has a following in Africa. I think it is also a great cartridge.
If brass for the 375 Ruger is around, I would suspect it be a Very easy process to convert to .416.

I like both the Rem and Ruger versions. I "need" neither for for my hunting in Alaska. But, I do use them at times.

The 416 Ruger stainless in the 20" non-braked model is a very handy little off the shelf rifle. Add an aftermarket synthetic stock and even more so.
I have no plans on selling my 416 Remington M70's blued and stainless, but definitely use the 416 Ruger more often.

quote:

I just can't imagine loading it DOWN. Why on earth would someone want to reduce the potential of a cartridge?

Because they can or all the same reason we have new cartridges factory and wild cats popping up all the time.

Why do some times I use one rifle and caliber over another one because I can and want to.

Would be fairly poring to always use just one.

I think this is a factor. Also, there's the urge to use it for hunting more broadly, rather than only for dangerous game in Africa. Who can deny the fun in hunting pigs here in the US with one of these guns. But full power isn't needed or even helpful, and using it for these other things provides some practice. Also, there is a notable difference in the recoil of a full bore 416 load and something equivalent to a factory 450/400 load. Shooting straight is the most important element in a clean kill. And the 450/400 has done pretty well for itself over the years. Nobody seems to have qualms about using one for buffalo in a double rifle. But load a bolt gun down to the same level, well, that's not okay. I guess. Just my view of it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

quote:

I just can't imagine loading it DOWN. Why on earth would someone want to reduce the potential of a cartridge?

Because they can or all the same reason we have new cartridges factory and wild cats popping up all the time.

Why do some times I use one rifle and caliber over another one because I can and want to.

Would be fairly poring to always use just one.

I have never had a pressure problem with a 416 Rem, It operates the same as a 375 H&H and nobodys crying about the .375, same case for all practicle purposes and don't give me that old BS about how hot the African desert is, been there, and its no different than parts of Arizona or Texas or Southern California, and no more humid than Houston Texas..Such garbage has been quoted only by folks that ain't been to the USAs hot spots.

I much prefer the .416 Rem to the Rigby, The Rigby is nostalgic, a formable force for sure, but much of the .416 Rem. so called chamber pressure is by those folks, and those that simply stick too much powder in the Rem., sometimes just to make a point..Its all BS, and Ive been shooting the .416 in Africa since its birth..Been loading it just as long. Never one problem, not one..

I also prefer thee lighter weight of the Rem 416, and find the Rigby too bulky, and if Im going to pack that much bulk, it will be a 458 Lott or if Im in a nostalgic mood, I'll pack a 404 Jefferys as that's my favorite caliber, but even the 404 is not one bit better than a .416 Rem..Thats my story and Im sticking too it!

quote:

Atkinson wrote:
I much prefer the .416 Rem to the Rigby, The Rigby is nostalgic, a formable force for sure, but much of the .416 Rem. so called chamber pressure is by those folks, and those that simply stick too much powder in the Rem., sometimes just to make a point..Its all BS, and Ive been shooting the .416 in Africa since its birth..Been loading it just as long. Never one problem, not one.

Ray, you may not have had easy access to hand-loaded Rigbys. The hand-loaded 416Rigby is a different level from the Remmie, basically it is a beltless 416 Weatherby and it makes an awesome all-around, all-Africa caliber. It splits the difference between the 378 Weatherby and the 460 Weatherby.

So I would say that if someone is going to carry around a scoped, 10 pound 416 rifle, then make it the 416Rigby and load it to the gills.

Having said that, I have been thinking for several years that a lightweight 416 Ruger might make a nice back-up, when and if I want something lighter to carry and don't feel the need for the whiz-bang kabluey of the 6100+ ft# Rigby.
But hunting the veldt with a 2820fps 350grain TTSX, sighted in at 2.0"/100 and only dropping 6.7" at 300 and 20" at 400 is a comforting feeling. Such a 416 Rigby basically duplicates the trajectory of our 338 WinMag with 225grainers, and that's saying something.
And I'll have one of those beers.

Phil: you should show the new 416 Rem rifle your daughter is getting!

I guess that has all the bells and whistles for a DG rifle.

Jeffery; . Both the Remington and Ruger cases are very efficient so they get lots of preformance for the amount of powder burned. The 416 Remington is one of my most favorite carts and it can very easily be down loaded to 2150-2200 fps with a 400 gr bullet. I've had 2, 416 Remingtons built. One on a 17 Enfield action and one on a CZ 550. Both full sized rifles with around 22" barrels. I've also had 2, 416 Taylor rifles. 1 on a 17 Enfield and one on a 1999 Montana stainless action. Both were somewhat compact, 18 +19" barrels.
For a deer load I really like a 400 gr round nose bullet at 2200 fps mv. It pokes a hole thru them without tearing up a bunch of meat. But still has plenty of snuff in case a brown bear comes in to the deer call.
I have not had a 416 Ruger yet . But I do very much like the Guide Gun/Rifle .
As far as accuracy goes, big bore rifles almost ALWAYS are much more accurate than the people that shoot them.
I would be so bold as to say that if you got either a Rem or Ruger . Put a low power scope on it and build a load somewhere around 2150 fps.. Either will shoot within 1.5 moa and very probably sub 1 moa.
They just tend to shoot well.
And they are fun to shoot at that velocity, which makes them fun to have with , which leads to mors impromptu shooting of them , which makes you a better shot with them, which makes them very good killers in your hands.
Pick one and have fun. If you pick the Ruger, buy about 500 rounds of brass and an annealing machine.

Im a nostalgic first class, but I have never been a Rigby fan, to me its too big a gun to be a 40 caliber and has no other redeeming features that I observe...Ive never had any pressure problems in the African heat, none at all..If I had a Rigby Id quickly turn it into a 450 and not waste that action...Nostalgia is the only real option to owning a 416 Rigby, if one is honest with himself and Rigby owners are not that!! but if it blows their skirt up, more power to them, and its good killer..

As to short stroking a magnum action..Your best prevention of this is even at the bench, slam feed that magnum, everytime you work the action put a "little" muscle behind it, don't go over board, just slam feed it firmly as you would in a dangerous situation..We get in a habit on the bench, and grabbing fired cases and putting them in our pocket to save brass even in the field, never do that! I had a client do that on a buffalo charge, he was actually trying to get the fired case in his jacket pocket, oblivious of the buffalo, the PH panicked and slamed his double shut cutting a big dent in both cases, a real Chineese air raid drill. I shot that buff at off the end of my barrels as I was there only to observe..The clients feet were covered in a roll of mud with the buffs head on top looking at him..yeehaw!!

I am firmly convienced that what you do at home you will do in the field..messing with scope adjustments and power, use of the safety is a major problem that happens a lot, Ive seen a sling cause major problems on two occasions,and yes if you short stroke a rifle at home, you will in the field, all these things can show up in the hunt, these problem need not be, the can be prevented 99% of the time, the other 1% is s--t happens...Just my two bits, take it for what its worth.

Ray

its not short stroking that I worry about. Its hitting my nose with the bolt. You stocked my 2 416s and know how short a stock I like. Thats really when a short action comes into its own-when firing 40+ calibers and working the bolt while its shouldered.

Cold Trigger Finger,
Thanks for the perspective. Basically, what I'm after is a 450/400 in a bolt action, for which I can buy ammo and brass, in a cartridge that gets those ballistics with minimal unused powder capacity. Sounds like either the Ruger or Remington would do that, just a question of the rifles they come in, and the availability of brass and ammo.

I own a Ruger No. 1 in 450/400 and enjoy shooting it. Just not sure about using a single shot on buffalo at this point. I'm won't be hunting any other dangerous game.

I'm kind of surprised that several people have suggested storing up on the 416 Ruger brass. I thought it had gained some traction in Africa and Alaska. Or at least enough to have a secure future. I know they like the 375 Ruger in Africa.

Lots of good observations here, and interesting anecdotes as well.

quote:

its too big a gun to be a 40 caliber and has no other redeeming features that I observe...Ive never had any pressure problems in the African heat, none at all..If I had a Rigby Id quickly turn it into a 450 and not waste that action.

The redeeming feature of the 416Rigby is that it is big enough to load to 416Weatherby ballistics.

The 416 Rigby is a 416 that just purrs at 6000-6200 ftlbs.

This isn't nostalgia, but it is only a proposition for handloaders. That translates to a .416" 350gnTTSX at 2800-2850fps. It reaches right out there and touches HARD, way way out there.

My son and I are amused because such a hand loaded 416 load duplicates the trajectory of our 338WM with 225gnTTSX at 2835fps. The trajectories of both rifles and loads are within an inch at 400 yards. That means using 270 trajectory instincts when hunting any sized game, but with much heavier hitting rifles. Of course, such power is not usually needed. The only time it provided extra comfort was when my son shot a buffalo at 220 yards, way out in the open.

I quit handloading years ago. No time. When I had a .416 built, I chose a .416 Remington. Never had a pressure problem. If I still handloaded, I might well choose a Rigby to load it up. Don't see any reason for the Ruger. I like 2300-50 fps, but if someone wants to load it down, so be it.

Tanzan 416,
That's true, a 416 Rigby or a 404 Jefferys can be loaded to phenomenal velocities, as they both have about the same powder capacity as the 416 Wby. in fact the 416 Rigby is a 416 Wby with the belt removed, the 404 is just slightly behind in powder capacity for all practical purposes, and that does paint a whole nuther picture..

I knew that, and have practiced that with both calibers, but wasn't thinking along those lines as very few folks realize that, and use the Rigby with the lame deduction that it builds very little pressure at 2100 FPS, and that's needed in the African heat..Hell you can underload any of them and do that!!and lots of the USA is as hot and humid as Africa.

Sean,
Having stocked your two rifles to your specs, I often wondered why we didn't just saw the butt stocks off and use the pistol grip, order a set of holsters from SD Myers (Bobby McNellis) and you could quick draw on your elephants!!

Its colder n hell up here, is whitetail season still open in Texas, send me an airline ticket and I'll come up pronto!! If its closed we'll split a bottle of Jack Daniels and smoke those high dollar ceeegars you keep handy.

JefferyPHD, a 450-400 in a bolt gun is a 404 Jefferys, the best of the 40 calibers to some, me included, but from a practical stand point either the 416 Ruger or Rem. is close enough..components in all three calibers are plentiful. Gotta love the 40 caliber.

Regarding what Ray says about operating your firearm and creating bad habits when practicing ( I call it TRAINING ) what you do in training, you will do in the field. If you lay and shoot a lot you will be MORE LIKELY to do the same in the field. decades ago police used mostly revolvers and when in training often collected the spent shells in their hands. It was found that many officers were killed and had either collected their spent shells or payed too much attention to them. Training was then changed to dump them on ground and it took LOTS of training to untrained the bad habits. I know this because I was a LEO and saw it first hand. All aspects are important when TRAINING for a hunt, bolt handling, reloads, carry method, all of it. Also it is something that is going on a lot. Just watch some of the shows on TV of DG hunts. You will see many guys and gals catching their spent shells rather than immediately slamming in another live round while keeping their eye on the animal in question, dangerous game or not each animal is a danger to some degree until it is positive that it is dead.

quote:

Originally posted by JeffreyPhD:
Cold Trigger Finger,
Thanks for the perspective. Basically, what I'm after is a 450/400 in a bolt action, for which I can buy ammo and brass, in a cartridge that gets those ballistics with minimal unused powder capacity. Sounds like either the Ruger or Remington would do that, just a question of the rifles they come in, and the availability of brass and ammo.

I own a Ruger No. 1 in 450/400 and enjoy shooting it. Just not sure about using a single shot on buffalo at this point. I'm won't be hunting any other dangerous game.

I'm kind of surprised that several people have suggested storing up on the 416 Ruger brass. I thought it had gained some traction in Africa and Alaska. Or at least enough to have a secure future. I know they like the 375 Ruger in Africa.

Lots of good observations here, and interesting anecdotes as well.

If your not already "attached" to the 416 Remington. Then imo the 416 Ruger makes the most sense . Especially in your case as it has slightly less xase capacity. . But. With the vagaries of supply and demand, laying in a Bunch of brass is always a good idea. The 375 Ruger is very popular in Alaska. The 416, not as much. Not any reflection on how great the round is. Just lots of choices nowadays.

Honestly, I do think this is a perfect situation for a 400 Whelan.

CTF,
Not wedded to either the Ruger or Remington round. If 416 Ruger brass should become scarce, seems like it would be pretty easy to form from 375 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by Cold Trigger Finger:
Honestly, I do think this is a perfect situation for a 400 Whelan.

Forgot to respond to the 400 Whelen issue. I think getting 2150 fps with a 400 gr. bullet would be iffy. And, I would like to be able to buy factory ammo. I'd thought the 416 Taylor would probably be the best choice but again, there's the factory ammo issue (I know there may be a factory load, but it's not typically available).

The 416 Ruger will be around for a long time, like with any round it can become hard to find, but eventually shows up....416 Rem has disappeared twice that I recall, I found an outfit that had some and bought case pf it. Guess what?, within a month the damn stuff was on all the shelves again..Happens a lot these days. Had the same experience with 9.3x62, 9.3x64 and 10.75x68...

Balistically the 416 Ruger has a bit more powder capacity thus more velocity than the .416 REM, even though the 416 Rem looks like the larger of the two.. but the difference is totally insignificant.

Ive shot the 416 Rem for years, and I wouldn't trade off a good .416 Rem to buy a 416 Ruger, but if I was a new shopper, I would opt for the 416 Ruger, I think its probably a better gun and caliber and more suitable for my needs...I built one for a doctor right after the 375 Ruger showed up, then built him a .375 Ruger..I test fired them and I like everything about both, and if I ever need another it will be the Ruger..and it comes in the Ruger African model, and to me that is the finest factory rifle since the pre 64 mod. 70..

. Yup. The 416 Ruger brass would be easy to make from 375 Ruger brass. As it 416 Remington brass from 375 H+H. I myself Really like the Ruger M77 Hawkeye Guide Gun/Rifle . But then I'm in plenty of foul weather and salt . So stainless/ laminate is a good option for me. And, I like muzzle brakes. Some don't. I dont hunt in close proximity to other people so I dont have to worry about their hearing. If you've trained on a magnum length bolt throw then short stroking shouldnt be a problem . Regardless , all bolts should be pulled all the way to the bolt stop.

quote:

Originally posted by JeffreyPhD:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
It doesn't make logical sense, but I still prefer the old 416 Rigby. Ballistically they're all pretty much the same. I know, the Rigby takes a larger action and in a more expensive rifle due to its Cordite beginnings, but I only use it in Africa, and its all part of the experience.

I get that. This year I took a 300 H&H to Namibia for pretty much the same reason.

Yep, that makes no sense at all,.....but we did the same thing. We took a 300 H&H to Zimbabwe. I think the 300 H&H is the coolest looking cartridge. It also flatten everything my son shot, including an Eland.

Will I agree with Biebs, this is all just campfire talk, I suggest one what pleases him the most, then we can all discuss it to no particular end..That's the fun part..

Anger and stupidity can run a thread in a hurry and we can all be guilty of that from time to time..I am going to try and not let that happen from now on, no promise, just a lot of try!!

The 300 H&H can be loaded to within a hair of the 300 WBY and safely. why is this? Its that long neck that allows bullets to be seated and additional powder to be used..Love that caliber.