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Just went a-surfing on youtube and as usual I worked myself up into a lather over all the terrible gun handling with bigbores. Guys psyching themselves up to take the shot, changing position, holding it offhand for up to 20 seconds and generally fumbling even trying to load chambers  I'd post some of the worse ones but its hard to choose, they are all so bad Couldn't find one yet of a guy who smoothly chambers, shoulders and fires in the one motion.On a serious note are western action, IPSC and shotgunners etc the only guys who seem to show case their skills? Safari rifles are self defence firearms after all, should be more of us into the quick handling/snapshot sport of things I would think... | ||
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Karl Think it is because people just don't use them enough or bothered to practice enough that it becomes muscle memory. The other big factor is having a place to practice. Even us in Aus are getting stiffed with the 8mm limit. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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This in spades. Most people do all thier "practice" for the hunt shooting off the bench. Once they post thier little three shot group, they stop. People who shoot more than is required to sight in thier guns are the exception not the rule. . | |||
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Karl, you may as well complain that soap operas are not Shakespeare. But I do take your point. I'd sooner chaperone a monkey with a pistol as some of these yahoos on safari. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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All true gents. I was hoping to find at least a little shakespeare out there though.All the other groups with their comps, clips and general pride and show casing of gunhandling skills but for bigbores its more like a void. Even here amongst experienced connosiers where we should be seeng it, but rarely a thread on handling the firearm or actally getting faster at using it. Must come down to a simple lack of interest. We have thousands of threads on improving bullet performance but not our own performance. | |||
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Karl, Tactical applications to DG hunting - by definition that would be big bores - has been discussed by me and a number of AR posters, some of whom would surprise you, but mostly offline. Some of us are uncomfortable discussing these issues, because in point of fact, there aren't many with the education, training and experience who want to express it on an open forum, thereby soliciting criticism from the unwashed. About the best alternative is to attend a DG shooting course such as those conducted by SAAM. Many, if not all, of their instructors actually have combat, SpecOps and law enforcement experience which they apply to the DG drills. I have a friend who learned enough in a three day course to possibly have saved his life from a wounded and charging bull Ele. It always pains me to watch a DG hunt on video and see the complete lack of tactical application, even as simple as the appropriate use of cartridge belts/carriers, especially a lack of ability to reload and fire follow-up shots. How often do we hear a PH tell his client to "reload" and or engage the safety? And how many hunters have we seen turn their back to a charging animal and run away? More than a couple. This is not always the hunters fault. If he never learned these skills and no one ever told him where he could do so, then how is he to know? He certainly wouldn't learn it from watching safari hunting DVDs or TV shows! Semper Fi Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Karl The BGRC does shoots like other disciplines - which apart from my own practice is where I learn't to shoot and handle Big bores better. If anyone asks, I will respond with suggestions of what to do, where to place ammo, technique etc. I also think to an extent you can over practice snap shooting with big bores and give yourself a flinch. Hence suggestion to use a .22 and 50 rounds !!! Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Karl My first ever rifle was .460Wea. and from the day one it was full power only. About 3-4 years later I bought a ZKK 375H&H just to have a rifle with no recoil to worry about at night culling from a 4WD. I was just like everybody else shooting off hand on stationary animals, off bench targets, groups etc.. Until one day shooting with my father, there was a group of 5 wild gogs running across about 70 yards away. I had my K4 Weaver scoped 375H&H and 1 in 5 rounds in the mag. I fired all 6 rounds in less time than the dogs ran 30-40 yards and I missed all 6 of them. The most emmbarassing was that the day before we were exactly in the same spot when father asked me " If there was a dog running over there would shoot him dead from here?" I said "yes no problem" and the very next day I had the golden oportunity to back-up my claim and I fucked it up good and proper. From that day (about 25 years ago) I shoot practice far more (5-6 to 1 ratio) on moving targets than stationary targets. If I mention my shooting practices here you get these soft brain wankerados here on the on the forum thinking and believing it's a bullshit that someone can shoot a full power .460Wea. in shotgun applications. I don't need to shoot for a small groups off bench, but I need to shoot a 4" or hopefully less for 3 shots at 100 yards off hand in less than 4-5 seconds because that's where it counts. On my practice shooting day 50-60 full power loads from .460Wea. is nothing unusual. But how can you get this to the soft brain of a wankerado who can skqeeze a shot or two from a .458Win. and have to have 2 years rest and think that's about all what everybody else can handle. These un-fit softcocks will never learn how to shoot any big bore if they live for another hundred years. Pyzda | |||
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The men that I know that really have been there and done that don't belittle and run down others--they just quietly do their thing. Seems its the "wannabes" that always have to call people names and brag-------------------------  | |||
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Lionhunter I'm interested in hearing about such things. just getting back into hunting myself having spent several years in the middle east. Once I have my collection up and running will be starting a few threads on the subject of rifle handling and maybe some clips too, the unwashed can poke fun at me at their leisure  505G what shoots are they doing at the big game clubs these days? | |||
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Karl Same as they always have for the last 20+ years. Don't think it has changed much. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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The unwashed only poke fun at those who ask questions and then don't listen to the answers - like shootaway on a thread on this forum. Otherwise I think 99% of people are helpful in suggestions re technique, where to hold ammo, how to reload etc. Everyone is different / does it slightly differently, it's what works for them once they have tried it. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Well said Sean. After over 20 years of teaching tactical actions I can say unequivocally that the most important trait of any trainee or candidate or student is the burning desire to learn the techniques of how to survive under extreme stress brought on by a critical incident. I taught my son-in-law to shoot and after deer, elk and Nilgi here in the US, prepared him for his first safari for DG. Imagine how I would have felt had I not prepared him to properly hunt Cape Buff with a tactical mindset. How would I have ever faced my daughter or grandson had something happened to him because of a lack of preparation? Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Todd Please remember your Youtube comedy clip "Buffalo in the jess". Maybe one day that will finally tell you something. Pyzda | |||
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Where is it ? Do you have a link ? Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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505G I don't normally watch these hunting disasters so I have no idea where exactly it is , but Google it and see if it's still there. Pyzda | |||
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I did and couldn't find it. Like you, I don't watch many. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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505G, Here is the link to the thread with the video. http://forums.accuratereloadin...981037281#3981037281 Going back and looking at the thread 505G, it appears you were the second one to comment on it and I appreciate your comments. I'm not exactly sure what Pyzda thinks is a disaster about the hunt. It was everything I would want in a buff hunt. Very fun and exciting, done the way I prefer to do it, by tracking on foot, close shooting in heavy cover with a big bore double rifle and open sights, and a successful conclusion. I missed the second shot but the bull was down for good after the 3rd round. The remaining shots were insurance to keep him from regaining his feet as he was attempting to do. Funny how this troll continues to offend with his crude remarks but never offers evidence of his doing anything other than simply typing on his computer. Interesting that he would single me out for doing nothing but agreeing with someone else's statement. But just for the record, I hunt for myself, not for anyone else. I film my hunts when I can because I think it is a great way to remember the experience. I often enjoy watching other guys hunts. I post some of mine in hopes that some might enjoy seeing them. If you don't enjoy them or find them offensive or whatever, that's not a problem. | |||
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Pyzda I thought you were talking about some funny skit comedy video. OK, you got me, I am stumped. That's not a comedy, it's what happens in the bush when hunting. What was wrong in your eyes with that video ? He makes a very quick 2nd shot when he first fired which I thought was good for a 577 Nitro. So what if he missed, a running Buff in THICK scrub is not an easy target. I always try to take the 2nd shot asap like Todd and I don't always connect with it. PH has control during the follow up at the same time as letting the client do the shooting, grabbing the shooter by the shoulder when needed (not sure how well the PH knows the client but a good way of keeping control of a person with a loaded gun and putting them in the position they want them). Gun safety looks OK to me. So please tell us more. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Pzyda We all have days like that. Most days you pull them off, the odd day you don't. Did it with a family pack of Dingoes, shot one at range, 5 minutes later found the den, shot each as it came out of the hole under the tree trunk except the last one - which I chased around the paddock and it took me 5 - 7 shots to get and even then I had to put the 500/465 bullet through a the dead tree trunk to hit it. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Best Regards, Sid All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it. Alexis de Tocqueville The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. Alexis de Tocqueville | |||
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Todd As I said to you somewhere before, hunting in the jess is very difficult in the best of the time. No doubt about it. Doesn't matter how difficult it may be the first shot is always going to be the easiest shot that one will ever have. The spinal nervous system disruption is the only solution to have the animal right there, ready for the finishing shot if needed. Unless there is a horizontal branch or a concrete beam obstructing the view of the total spine line there is no an excuse to shoot elsewhere and hopeing it will be OK. JUST FOR THE SOFTBRAINS LIKE TODD AND KARL WHOM ARE THINKING THAT THE "CONCRETE BEAM" IS A SLIP UP, IT ISN'T A SLIP-UP. IT IS THERE DELIBERATELY FOR A SARCASM TO UN -EARTH THE SOFTBRAINS. WHOLA, IT WORKED 100% JUST LIKE A BRAIN/SPINE SHOT. I'm not a trophy hunter so a head shot is my preference. Otherwise to find a 4" by 4" gap through the jess and find a clear view somewhere on a target that is 5" high and 80" long is the go. It is far easier than to correctly guess where the partially obstructed 1' by 1' foot chest target is where it really counts. A bolt action with a low sight line as possible (peep sights) and dead on 100 Yards and one can have the 100% confidence that is needed in the rifle and himself that it will drop the buff. on the spot. If we miss and the bull takes off, everybody runs like hell (WITH AN EMPTY CHAMBER) after him as long as it takes. If you think that you've done everything that was possible right, so be it. Do it again. 505G I never blame something or someone for my fuck-ups and I always learn from my mistakes doesn't mater what it is. My rationale is " If it didn't work this time it won't work any other time either. So something has to be changed for it to work. If I didn't have my emmbarassing moment with the dogs I most likely would be exactly the same as 99% of the rifle shooters. I trained daily (a lot of dry firing) for some 6 months before I started shooting animals in motion and it brought my hunting/culling into completely another level. Pyzda | |||
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Py You've confused the hell out of me. I still don't see WTF he did wrong. He shot the animal, missed the second shot, followed up and out in the finishers. Apart from a drop dead on the spot which as we all know doesn't happen often, I can't see what was wrong with what he did. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Pyzda, You will find exactly zero support among experienced hunters and professional hunters for taking a head or spine shot as the opening salvo on buffalo. Actually, your comment advocating such, along with the little "slip" you made concerning a horizontal concrete beam covering the vitals (not many horizontal concrete beams in the jesse where I've hunted) tells me all I really need to know about your experience level with hunting dangerous game animals. You have none!! It's as simple as that. What shooting you MAY have done is of cattle in a paddock or abattoir getting them ready for slaughter. You are no hunter and have offered exactly no evidence to the contrary, video, photographic, or literary. Furthermore, I will advise you that my preference for hunting DG runs specifically to big bore double rifles with open sights as I grew weary of sniping them at long range with a bolt gun some time back. Running after a buff that didn't drop at the shot with an empty chamber indeed!!  But I shouldn't judge you too harshly. You're simply trying to have a little fun behind the keyboard acting as an expert when in fact, you've never really done any hunting at all. I can see you now in one of two scenarios: either you're a kid bored with your video games and attempting to see how long you can go on as a keyboard expert before being called out for the fraud that you are, (which by the way, you've just been called out  , but then again, I called you out back when you first showed up from your comments about the CEB #13's when you "doubted anyone would be able to recover 13 solids from a buffalo anyway" [hint: 13 is the name of the bullet, not the number recovered; oh yea, I didn't forget that little slip of yours either]) or you are an excessively overweight looser sitting in front of your computer in your wife beater undershirt and skivvies, eating cheetos and masturbating all day, occasionally popping in to check on your forum grenades! But I could be wrong. If so, please offer some evidence to the contrary! I'll start holding my breath now ... now .... now ... NOT! | |||
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Never ever..... Not on the street either unless faced with hostage situation.... Center Of Mass.... Again... Center Of Mass........ Michael http://www.b-mriflesandcartridges.com/default.html The New Word is "Non-Conventional", add "Conventional" to the Endangered Species List! Live Outside The Box of "Conventional Wisdom" I do Not Own Any Part of Any Bullet Company, I am not in the Employ Of Any Bullet Company. I do not represent, own stock, nor do I receive any proceeds, or monies from ANY BULLET COMPANY. I am not in the bullet business, and have no Bullets to sell to you, nor anyone else. | |||
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That's exactly right Michael. Pyzda's comments here as well as elsewhere on the forum, offer no indication of experience whatsoever. Time for him to get a new bag of Cheetos I suspect! | |||
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No dog in this fight, biggest things I have killed was a moose and a musk ox. My starting point for taking a shot is a behind the shoulder heart/lung or on the shoulder to try and break the animal down and be ready to shoot again if things go wobbly. Will that not work on a cape buffalo or water buffalo? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Now that was a good one. I'd also say an alco older bloke on depression meds. either way he is the usual 2nd rate internet troll of today.Has major meltdown, blows his cover and then gradually loses impact from then on. I miss the old trolls of the site, the guys who got themselves invited on hunts with forum owners. They had some style | |||
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I've always been taught to place your first shot into the heart and lungs and you will have a dead animal every time. Though I have never hunted any dangerous game, but I hope to one day, the people I know who have been on several safari's all got as close as possible and put their fist shot into the heart and lung area of the animal. The only time that I've heard of professional hunters wanting a client to take a head shot for the first shot is on elephant, crocodiles and hippo. If I'm missing something or am not thinking correctly please let me know. I've learned a lot from the people on this forum and look forward to learning more. | |||
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You can add to the head shot list almost any animal that is in charge, as the presentation doesn't leave one with many options. But in the normal course of business, I agree wholeheartedly that a head shot is to be avoided under all circumstances. Hey Todd, If you look back near his initial appearance, you'll find my early call out as well.   Mike ______________ DSC DRSS (again) SCI Life NRA Life Sables Life Mzuri IPHA "To be a Marine is enough." | |||
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Totally agree re No head / neck or Spine shot as a first shot. I know some people like the neck / spine shot, I was warned off it very early because if you miss, nothing else around to kill the animal. Heart lung vital area every time IMHO, as was shown in the video. THIS "THING" about how many shots it takes to kill, did you "drop it on the spot" is a load of BS because identical shots on different animals can have vastly different effects. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Todd You are so dumb, that's not even funny. The WORD "Concrete beam" was put into the text deliberately as a "sarcastic remark". It doesn't mean that there is a concrete beam in the jess obstructing the spine. I'm not a slightest surprise that there is a strong believe that a spine/head first shot is bad and is not recomended. The "utroucious shots" from the youtube and it's an obvious that they would be lucky if they hit an elle. anywhere from 50 yards away. Gents You do whatever you do and I'll keep doing what we've been doing for more than 30 years. The day when I won't be able to hit somewhere 5" x 80" puny target within 100 yards I'll go to the church to take my punishement. I'll get circumsized and I'll start believing that there is a God. It's good to have a good fun until the next bloke who will be pissing on your foot will be me. Pyzda | |||
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Pyzda Thanks for the compliment. Never been called soft brains before ! Re "Unless there is a horizontal branch or a concrete beam obstructing the view of the total spine line there is no an excuse to shoot elsewhere and hopeing it will be OK." "Hoping it will be OK" Well, I don't seem to have too much trouble at all plugging buffalo in the heart / lung area - although my pref is lower shot into the heart/ They all seem to fall over or maybe run a short distance before falling over by which time I have normally put another on into them. Could I hot the spine if I wanted. Yes, probably, but a Buff has a huge neck and miss the spine, generally miss the other vitals so Buff can and do run off. I think many others feel the same re spine shots but I know one who always asks "did you head shoot it" but I know when he first shot a Buff, even when told not to, went for a head shot, buff pissed off into the distance never to be found. He hit the head but missed the brain !!! Anyway, you do what you want. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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505G we all had a bad experience or two and there is never anything that's 100% sure doesn't matter how hard one try. What gets me is these fat unfit lards that they can't shoot for shit even from the sticks. The only thing that they can do is to aim into the centre of the buffs body in the fear they will miss it alltogether. They always have 1000 of excuses why the buff is gone and they always think that the shot was a good one. They bring with them pockets full heart/blood pressure medicine and any other useles crap. They can't run, ride a horse or a cross bike and it really fucks me right off. Than they have to top it up and post they crap on the youtube. Pyzda | |||
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   Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Pyzda......you have done nothing so far than embarrasing yourself here, please stay away, you are a fraud and, as others have mentioned, certainly no hunter.. I am amused by you calling Todd all kinds of stupid names...I wonder if you can imagine what it takes to land an F-18 at an Aircraft carrier in open sea..? Probably not.. | |||
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Jesus Pyzdam talk about generalisations. FYI, I have been to the US on a number of occasions. The US and people in Aus are generally the same but to describe them as US is tarring everyone with a broad brush. FYI, have a look at The Vintagers shoots. I think you'll say that quite a few of these can shoot - and shoot very well. Even Aussies who have gone over can shoot since they won a few events. As for "The only thing that they can do is to aim into the centre of the buffs body in the fear they will miss it all together." That's funny. You say they aim into the centre of a Buff's body because and you will have a Buff running off (unless you happen to hit the Liver which pulls up most animals). The heart / lung is a far better shot because you have a bigger vital area, not because people can't shoot for shyte. And if they go high, they could connect with the spine and low generally gets the heart. I reckon for every piece of bad shooting on youtube by fat overweight unfit people, I can find another good shooter by a slim jim !!! Oh, and in relation to Todd;s video, he went on a hunt for Buff, he put down a Buff well shot and safely. What is wrong with that ? I think this discussion has run it's course as you and I are not likely to agree on anything. Oh, by the way, I don't know Todd, Lion Hunter,Karl, Crazy, Michael 458, Cross L. Had quite a few disagreements with some of them but not over BS like you are sproutng. I have now put you in the same league as Shootaway. Previously 500N with many thousands of posts ! | |||
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Pyzda, Please offer us some evidence of your prowess with a weapon in the field. To date, you've done nothing but provide insult without logical commentary. Not to mention no photographic or video evidence of same! You've been exposed here for what you really are, a keyboard expert with no literary reference to actual experience; quite the contrary. You may have shot a few cows in a paddock, that's it! Nothing more. Your lack of knowledge concerning weapons is only exceeded by your ridiculous ideas of how a hunt should be conducted. Trolls like you seem to be popping up daily here on AR. Guys like yourself don't understand that we hunt for love of the animals and the wild places they inhabit. Not to impress anyone else. True hunters don't keep score against other hunters. It isn't a competition among A-Type personalities. If it comes to that, then I would suggest your motives are misguided and you are missing completely the enjoyments of being afield. I do not care to "drop a buffalo" in his tracks with one and only one shot by hitting him in the head and possibly destroying the horns. I care to humanely take the animal when the time comes to do so and accomplish the task in the method most likely to be successful without causing loss of the animal to die a suffering death. That almost always means a heart and lung shot, with the notable exception of elephant. Yes, I'm a trophy hunter! Not because I care about how far a particular head stretches the tape, but because I care to seek out and challenge the oldest and most bush savvy animal possible in order to enhance my perception of what I enjoy about being afield. I also enjoy and appreciate other guys who hunt in the same maner and when they put a well presented video together showing their experience, I'll watch it and be entertained, if only to wish I was there with them having a grand time. That would be my motivation for making my videos available as well. Again, should they not be your cup of tea, that's not a problem, just move along. So peddle your trash elsewhere Pyzda. The hunters on this forum don't appreciate your false bravado. You don't seek to further the enjoyment of our camaraderie, rather to destroy it. You would never fit into a band of brothers. More likely the recipient of a blanket party or even the victim of a fragging incident as without a doubt, your behavior here indicates that of a person likely to expose others to unwarranted danger or risk. Frankly, your ideas appear to fall in line with the vitriole espoused by the anti's who do not understand the motivations of hunters and never will. Do yourself and all of us a favor; be gone, and stay gone. The sign for you now reads: "NOT WELCOME". | |||
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