Fifteen - twenty years ago I had a Mark X 98 converted to 375 Whelen. I spent 2 years or so working up reloading data using cast bullets from 250 grins to 300 grains with powders various. Now I have a Browning variant of the Winchester 95 drilled, reamed and re-rifled to 375 Whelen. What is the strength comparison between the two, the Mauser vs the Model 95? Any help sure would be appreciated.

Arky,
Are you referring to maximum peak chamber pressure?

quote:

Originally posted by crshelton:
Arky,
Are you referring to maximum peak chamber pressure?

I guess, what I'm asking is, if the 98 Mauser action is good for 50,000 PSI and the Browning is good for 40,000 PSI I'll have a starting point for working up my loading for accuracy. My idea is start where I started twenty years ago with IMR 4895. I'm scouring the 'net' for 35 Whelen, 375 Whelen and 375 Whelen A.I. for reference. Thanks for your interest.

OK, I know nothing about the 98 Mauser, but may be of some help with the Miroku/Winchester 1895 .405 with which I have some reloading experience.

The Lyman 50th Manual keeps 1895 .405 pressures below 45,000 psi.

I have personally loaded my 1895 .405 with 400 grain Woodleigh bullets to 2100 fps at 48,000 psi with a ball powder for a Cape Buffalo hunt. After pressure testing those loads and others, I reproduced the same velocity of 2100 fps at pressures well below 40,000 psi using VV N133 powder and Federal match magnum primers. An acquaintance has taken this 1895 .405 N133 load to 2157 fps in preparation for his African hunt.

This sort of performance is normal with N133 and is obvious when studying the pressure curves measured and displayed with Pressure Trace II.

4895 is a good powder and I used it for my 308 until I switched to Hornady Light Magnum loaded ammo long ago. A box of 20 often lasts a few years as I have not changed the sights on my Model 70 FWT for nearly 30 years and only pull the trigger on game. You know, If it ain't broke,

However, if you think that your velocity target may only be reached by loading to pressures near or exceeding maximum, I suggest you try N133 as it provides a 10,000 to 12,000 psi safety margin.



I hope this information helps.

Both rifles, Mauser 98 and modern Winchester/Browning 95, are more than enough for .30-06 and .35 Whelen ammunition made within SAAMI pressure specifications. As long as you're not exceeding that limit there's no reason you couldn't achieve comparable 375 Whelen loads in both of them. But you can't work a load up in one and assume it would be okay in the other. You wouldn't do that with two M98s.

In doing extensive load workups for my 35 Whelen AI, I found Alliant Power pro 2000 to give the highest velocities with the lowest pressures. I worked up to 62 grains under the Nosler 250 Partition with zero pressure signs and stopped there, because I thought 2620 fps was plenty. My rifle has a 24", 14" twist Douglas barrel with tight chambering and minimal leade.

I have a win 95 converted to the 35 Whelan,it started out as a 30-06,I have not played much with this gun but so far I am using Alliant MR 2000 with both 250 & 300 gr bullets @ 2500 & 2200 fps respectively,the 30-06 is rated at almost 60,000 psi.

Those Browning reproductions come chambered in 270 Winchester and that chambering develops 62kpsi. Anything you safely developed for your Mauser 98 should be fine in the Browning 95 if the conversion was done properly.

Yes, what WC said; the Miroku 95 is made for very high pressure; no one said the Browning/Miroku was only for 40K psi.
However!!! if you have an old 95, those can and will set back the bolt face with 30-06 loads. I have had several here that had that happen. Not that the action is weak; the bolt material was not sufficient to hold the back thrust. Locking surfaces were all fine. I bushed them and converted all of them to 405 anyway.

Thank you all for your knowledge and insight. Once I get the rifle back from the gunsmith I'll be installing a barrel band front sight, working up the proper loads. I've already got the Redfield receiver sight and the recoil pad installed.
Also be fire lapping the new rifling for cast bullets.
Again thank you very much

I'm not a gunsmith but I agree completely with what everyone says about the strength of the new 95's. If the load are kept within reason I wouldn't worry. As far as strength of the 98 Mauser goes I think the fact that some of the early Weatherby rifles were built on FN 98's speaks volumes about how strong the action is. I had one years ago in 300 Weatherby made by Weatherby on an FN Mauser. Shooting it made me a little uneasy due to the fact it was 375 H&H length in a standard length action considering the pressure those early Weatherby rounds were loaded to. I never heard of one of those action failing though.

short answer - the 95 can't handle the pressure that a 98 can -

True, Jeff, but both can handle an ‘06 case at 62kpsi. I wouldn’t rebarrel any 95 to a 7mm Remington Magnum.

RC

The 375 hawk-scoffield is shown chambered in the new 95's on the Hawk website. Their data is not balls to the wall, but right up there with factory 06 pressures.

I'm betting that my shoulder will refuse to take the abuse of the balls to the wall loads. Mostly I'm looking at some where around 2,000 fps with a 250 to 270 grain gas checked cast bullet. I'm betting that a flat point cast bullet in the shoulder or the head of a feral hog would put a pig on the spit.

The universality of 4895 will let you dial in just about any velocity you want without any concerns about squibs or poor ignition.

Using 4895 fits into my inventory of powders nicely. I bought five eight pound canisters of IMR 4895 a number of years ago from a widow clearing out her husbands reloading room. All seals are intact. the open canister smells of alcohol.
Thanks for your suggestion.

I did the same thing except with the 9.5x62, I shot it at 2 grs less than the one I built on a good Mauser action, velocity was a 100 fps difference between it and the win. 95, pressure seemed about the same..I got the impression the lever gun was a bit touchy with the loaded Mauser ammo I had on hand, so I left it at cutting those two grs..I could shoot the same max loads in both guns but the Mauser handled those loads better, so Id say there is a slight difference, in my case anyway..

In your case I just start with a mild load and work up using the pressure sighs we fly by the seat of our pants with, and a chronograph...

Mr. Atkinson I also figure my shoulder into the equation. My prime standard is accuracy, say one and half inches off the bench using a receiver sight. With the bolt 375 Whelen, the RCBS and Saeco cast bullets were the most accurate at 100 yards

IMO each gun has to have a work over as to pressure, velocity, bullet weight, and that varies between individual guns in that you might or might not be able to load both a Mauser and a late model 95 to the same max load, however I believe they would be very close all things equal...If one decided to blow one up, Id probably put my money on a good Mauser to win!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
IMO each gun has to have a work over as to pressure, velocity, bullet weight, and that varies between individual guns in that you might or might not be able to load both a Mauser and a late model 95 to the same max load, however I believe they would be very close all things equal...If one decided to blow one up, Id probably put my money on a good Mauser to win!

I;ve got a hand full of Mausers. I trust them implicitly. When I Inventoried the gun safe I found a sporterized 98 that I have no idea how it came to be in my gun safe. Later this fall I'm sending it off to be rebarreled from 8mm to 30-06. I gave oldest grandson a Winchester a 95 in 30-06. I'm going to try working a trade' the rebarreled 98 for the Win, 95. It will be temporary arrangement, when I croak he'll get all three Winchester 95s, 405, 375, and 30-06.

I know there is more than just Chamber Pressure like bolt thrust. However, the Japanese 1895,Repros were chambered for the .270 Winchester a 62k psi cartridge.

Id give some serious thought to the 8mm/06 in that conversion if your barrel is good..I actually like my 8mm/06 Ackley even better..A 160 gr. GS Custom monolithic at 3200 Plus is a deadly elk load and flatter trajectory...the 200 gr. nosler or accubond is also an excelent elk load at about 2900 to 3000 FPS is my guess but have not chronographed that one yet...