Hey guys first time here. Here's my ? I'm thinking of buying a Sako 75 Grey Laminated Stainless in 375H&H with a Leupold 2.5-8x36 or 3.5-10x40 VXIII. I will be using it for Elk,Moose,Black bear,Grizz and coastal Browns. Most of the game I've taken have been shot from 50-150 yards with a few around the 250 mark. I hunt in all conditions snow etc. Do you think this rifle/scope setup would be ideal for my needs or do you think a .338 or .416 would be better. This will be my first big bore and plan on keeping it awhile. Any comments would be appreciated>

Prairie Boy,

I have no experience with the Sako rifle you mention but, as for the 375 H&H cartridge - you can't go wrong with it. It'll drop anything in North America. Actually it'll do fine on most huntable animals in the world should you ever decide to take a safari. Not to say the 338 and 416 won't - I just don't have any experience with them.

-Vlad

If you like shooting a medium bore a 375 is just fine.

It's maybe a bit much for most of the game you mentioned but heck, I'm going pig hunting with a .458 Win in 12 days so who am I to talk. For Moose, Elk, Black Bear I really like my 338 Win.

Once you get into big bears I'd sure feel better with the 375 though, so if one gun is it, then a 375 isn't a bad choice at all.

'Most' answers to questions on this forum are hinged on whether you believe you need a Controlled Round Feed action or not...

If you don't think you do, you're in for a shock.
If you don't believe me, give the thread a chance to develop...

I think you've made a reasonably good choice for the animals you wish to hunt and the location you'll be finding them in.
Others may digress...

Got some that are bigger,
Got some that are smaller,

For North American Big Game both near and reasonably far...

I've found the 375HH always feels and performs real, real well.
I've always been satisfied with the results.

It's a classic cartridge and makes for a great first step down the "big bore highway."

Have you looked at Montana Rifleman for barreled actions? There are several posts on them on this forum, but essentially they offer a slightly modified version of the pre-64 Model 70 in stainless. You could order a barreled action from them in .340 Wby., .375 H&H, .375 Wby. (allowing you to still shoot .375 H&H in a pinch), .375 RUM, .416 Rem. Mag., etc., with the barrel cut to the contour, length, and crown of your choice, with action trued for roughly $970. Pair that with an Accurate Innovations drop-in laminated stock for roughly $400 and you're good to go. Going this route instead of the Sako would allow you to get a "weather-proof" .416 if you want more power than the .375, as well as getting CRF. I went this route for a .340 Wby. Mag., and it shoots sub MOA with factor 250 gr partitions (the only load I have tried thus far). I couldn't be happier.

Sorry I wasn't more responsive to your post. As to your original question concerning cartridge choice, if you are a hand-loader the .416 Rem. offers a bit more flexibility as you can load it with 300 grain X-bullets or 325 North Forks to 2800 f/s to flatten trajectory for elk, but still use 400 grain bullets for a little more oomph on brownies.

I think a .375H&H is more than you need; a .338 would be adequate for what you describe, unless you make a habit of following up wounded brown bear.

George

Hi Prarie Boy,
Welcome to the forum. I think your making a good choice with the 375. It's the perfect compromise between the 338 and the 416. It can be loaded with 250 grain bullets for lighter game and 300's for the larger game such as the Coastal Brownies. You'll probably find the 270 to be the only bullet you need to load. It shoots flatter than the 338 and is still an easy cartridge to shoot. My buddy has the Sako you've mentioned and it a real nice rifle. I don't think you could go wrong.
Take care,
Dave

I think you rifle choice is a good one. I personally prefer the .338 for what you describe, but there is nothing wrong with the .375.

Thanks for the replies so far keep them coming.
What about my scope choices, anyone

I have a sako 75 stainless synthetic in 375 H&H with a leupold VX II 2-7x33 and will take it moose hunting this december.I've worked up a sweet load with 270gr tsx bullets that is very accurate and moves along at 2700fps. Should do the trick for anything, period. One of the great thing about sakos is that you have a large magazine where you can really seat the bullets out nice and far which is nice especially for the TSX bullets. Mine are 3.66 COL and there is room to spare.

I have another sako in 300 wby. It's also a very accurate rifle. Sako makes great rifles.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I think a .375H&H is more than you need; a .338 would be adequate for what you describe, unless you make a habit of following up wounded brown bear.

George

Ditto.

Roland

quote:

Originally posted by Roland1:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I think a .375H&H is more than you need; a .338 would be adequate for what you describe, unless you make a habit of following up wounded brown bear.

George

Ditto.

Roland

I'm having a difficult time with the concept that the "largest of the medium bores/smallest of the big bores" is TOO MUCH for anything in the BIG BORE Forum...

The whole package described sounds 'perfect'.
Go for it, Prairie Boy.

Sounds like to me your going to be well armed...Try some 350 gr. Woodleighs if the .375 isn't enough, it will give you a jump in caliber...

For this side of the great pond, the 375 makes more since than a 416 or larger...less recoil and about the same trajectory..

I own and hunt with the .375, 338, and 375 wouldn't want to be without any of them, plus I have a couple of other calibers stuck around here someplace.

I think the 2.5 to 8 is a good scope choice for the 375. The reason I would go with the 375 over the 338 which others say is enough which it is are:
1 Both guns can be made to be the same weight
2 Both guns are comparable recoil wise
3 The 375 pushes a 270 grain bullet at 2700 fps while the 338 pushes a 250 to 2600
4 The larger diameter of the 375
5 If your packing the same weight , dealing with the same recoil why not go for the more bang for your buck with the 375
Take care,
Dave

Prairie boy,

I think your choice is a good one. I love the 375 H&H round, and wouldn't be without one. The 338 may be a bit easier to shoot but the 375 certainly isn't harsh and I would like the bigger bullet with the bears.

Try Barnes TXs and you'll have an accurate, penetrating load with good ballistics. Going up to the 416s gives you more "hit" with the big stuff but the recoil difference is noticeable. I know some say they can't tell the diff in recoil of a 375 and 416, but I notice it...and I love and shoot my 416 Rigby (and 458 Lott) quite a bit. (For just big bears I would probably be packing my Lott, but I just love the bigger stuff).

I really like your scope choices, especially the Leup 2.5-8. I use the 3.5-10 on smaller rifles but feel the 2.5-8 works great as a big game scope. I like the smaller (36mm) objective (for scabbard use) and the game you are after is pretty big after all so 8x is plenty. I use the 1.5-5 on my bigger rifles (416s and 458s just for scope longevity) but on my 338 and 375 like the 2.5-8x36 as for my aging eyes it is a brighter scope than the 1.5-5.

The CRF vs PF is a whole 'nother kettle of fish and I won't go there. I like Sakos and have 3, but I prefer a 3 pos safety like on a Win M70. I do like the Sako 75s, but an alternative is to get a Win M70 SS, put a MacMillan stock on it and have a smith work it over for about the same price as the stock Sako. Just some thoughts.

As I have said before in other threads, buy the rifle you like and shoot the heck out of it. Fix any shortcomings you find and start bringing home those trophies!

Take care and best wishes,

John

thanks you guys for the great replies. i can't believe the response i'm getting.
I know the .338 would get it done and probabley shoot a little flatter, but there's so much history in the 375H&H and i kind of like the idea of owning a classic caliber, been around a long time.

I'm in the process of getting a .375 H&H myself, and I live in New Jersey where you can't even hunt with a rifle, but I do some black bear hunting in Maine every year, and plan on doing some wild boar hunting a few times this year. Basically, the .375 H&H is enough gun for almost anything that walks the earth. You will never be sorry for buying one especially if your quarry includes moose, elk, or big bears. I'm anxious to get mine and try it on whitetails in December. LOL.

Yes, if you can shoot it well.
I bought out a decent supply of 300gr NP Fed Capers @ $32/box.

quote:

Originally posted by BusMaster007:

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
I think a .375H&H is more than you need; a .338 would be adequate for what you describe, unless you make a habit of following up wounded brown bear.

George

I'm having a difficult time with the concept that the "largest of the medium bores/smallest of the big bores" is TOO MUCH for anything in the BIG BORE Forum...

If you concentrate really, really hard, it will become clear to you.
.
.
.
Okay, time's up, so I'll explain it to you.
You don't need a .375H&H for elk.
You don't need a .375H&H for black bear.
You don't need a .375H&H for moose.
A .375H&H is good for brown bear, but not necessary most of the time.

The .338 will also be lighter and easier to carry over hill and dale.

George

Depending on manufacturer rifle weight issue could easily go against the .338. I had .300Win with weight equal to if not greater than .375H&H! I sold both of those ZKK602s.

The one advantage the .338 has over the .375 is trajectory in that it can sling a 210 Nolser at 3005 FPS and thats one flat shooting load that the .375 cannot compete with...that is why I have both calibers...I use the .338 more than my 375 or 300 H&H it seems, for what its worth, but for the big bears I would certainly use a .375 by choice, not that a .338 isn't enough gun, it is...

However, if I were you, I would get whichever one I wanted, not what someone else suggests..you cannot go wrong either way...

I see the 375 H&H as primarily an African cartridge, although I have used it on elk, grizzly, and black bear here in NA.

Rest assured, you can hunt anything your heart desires anywhere in the world with a good 375 H&H, but there are some drawbacks if you wish to employ it in NA. My biggest personal gripe is that most 375 H&H rifles are bigger and heavier (as is the ammo) to carry up elk and grizzly mountains than something like a 338 Win. Mag., and the 375 won't kill anything one bit better, either, than a properly loaded and directed 338. I see the 375 H&H as a versatile flatlander cartridge (i.e. Africa), but it makes a darned poor mountain rifle, and for all-around NA use, it actually offers more disadvantages than advantages.

If you have some notion that a bullet from a 375 is going to decisively levitate an elk, giving it an airplane spin, then finish with a thunderous bodyslam, while a bullet from a lesser cartridge such as the 30-06 is somehow going to bounce off or otherwise perform abysmally, you're going to be greatly disappointed.

I don't use the 375 H&H for African game anymore, either. I've found that the 300 magnums kill plainsgame just as well as does the 375 H&H, plus they are lighter and handier to carry and shoot flatter, plus the 416s and 458s are better for buffalo and various other animals that can fight back. Next season, I'm taking a 338 Win. Mag. to Africa for plainsgame, and it should prove to be just as handy and at least as effective as the 300 Win. Mag. has been. Once again, the 375 H&H will be left at home...........

I hate to sound too negative, but I think the iconic 375 H&H is a "neither-fish-nor-foul" cartridge, and it's unlikely that I'll ever hunt with it again in NA, and likely never again in Africa, either.

AD

I love both the .338 Win Mag and the .375 H&H. Either will do a great job in North America with the possible exception of an angry great bear.

If you are limited in your caliber selection for heavier game in Africa and are likely to go that direction, the .375 H&H has advantages. If not, then pick a rifle of the weight you like for the terraine you'll hunt and that fits.

quote:

I see the 375 H&H as a versatile flatlander cartridge (i.e. Africa), but it makes a darned poor mountain rifle,

Allen,

I will ditto that sentiment. My 375 is way too heavy of rifle to casually pack around in mountain country. Could I pack it? Sure and I have, did I regret packing it every time I did, you bet, and switched over to my 30 mag the next day.

I am of the opinion that a good 30 Mag is all the rifle needed for the continental US, nothing more is needed, and that same rifle would get you pretty far in the rest of the worlds game conditions. Sure there are better specialised rifles for big and dangerous game, and if I was hunting BC or Alaska more and bear encounters were more likely a 338 mag would add a comfort level. But a 200 gr Nosler in a 30 Mag is a real hard combo to beat, a little heavy on a deer, a little light on a great bear but the versatility of 30 mags cannot be disputed.

Prairie Boy,

Sounds like you're already committed to the stainless/synthetic/pushfeed Sako, but at least you got the caliber right. Don't let some of the guys here talk you into a pipsqueak caliber if you ever expect to face a brown or grizzly. The 375 H&H is unquestionably your best choice.

BTW, wasn't it a pushfeed Sako found in the cold, dead hands of the Alaskan guide who was killed and half-eaten by a bear not too long ago?

Throw me in with the 33 crowd also. George S delineated in crystal-clear fashion as to why a 33 is better suited for game here in NA. Ray further clarified it with the versatility of the 210gr and 275gr options. Allen Day nailed it as far as practicality is concerned.The 375 is a big rifle and heavy ammo to cart around in the mountains after elk or deer. In fact, most had good, well-reasoned ideas as to why the 33s would be a better choice here in NA. I differ a bit somewhat as to the versatilty of the 375 however. When put tho the test, it's a hell of a versatile cartridge. I saw my good friend absolutely nail a great kudu at a measured 352 yards with a 300gr Swift A Frame which is not a particularly aerodynamic bullet, as well as a nice buffalo, zebra, impala, etc., so for Africa to me the 375 remains the quintessential rifle.

Now so as not to disappoint Busmaster007, for brown bear I would consider the CRF issue. Although I would have no qualms going after one with a GOOD push feed, I really would reflect on that. The Sako and Weatherbys are better options when it comes to push feeds and yes there was a guide almost killed last year because he double-stroked a Sako pushfeed, but training and a good gunsmith can go a long way in mitigating that problem.

What you can't overcome are glued on bolt handles, cheap extractors, easily prone to failure when debris gets in the action and fire-on-fail safeties. Stay away from rifles with those maladies. Oh yes, I would also recommend QD mounts a back up scope and iron sights. jorge

I would definately go with the 375H&H if you plan on doing any elk hunting in griz infested areas of Montana or moose hunting in Alaska. With the number of bear attacks on the rise with hunters. I really don't think the 375 is an overkill. Most hunters that were attacked didn't have much time to react, so to get one shot off may be the only chance you get. And I would rather have a 300 grain bullet that is almost .040 bigger in diameter than a 338 with a 250 grain.

Don't get me wrong, both would do the job. But, I wouldn't talk myself out of a 375 if I was already leaning that way. There is also the 358 calibers that would split the difference. I personally use a .358 STA with A-Squares 275gr Dead Toughs, and take it to Alaska regularly and I love it.

As for scopes go with the Leupold 2.5-8. I don't see a need for the higher magnification and you will want that lower 2.5X for close 50yd shooting. The 1.5-5X may be another one I would consider if your shots didn't exceed 250yds.

Me again, I have a couple of questions. Are there any good quality rifles with crf that have a detachable clip(that is my preference) rather than a floor plate. Also I read about alot people saying that Win. CZ are good rifles after you take them in for work, why is this necesary on a brand new rifle that you paid good money for(I'm not a gunsmith). What things are being done to these brand new rifles that hasn't been done at the factory!!!I understand the benefits of a crf so that you can chamber a round when your lying on your back after the Brownie just rolled you(lol) but I haven't found any that I like, I'm open to any suggestions. Thanks

You get approx. 30% more punch with .375HH at 50m.....at 100m or less it's clearly superior to the Winnie.

No work should be needed, just shoot it 200+ times. Do you think there will be something in your hands to cycle after the bruin makes contact with your body? Desirable range to hunt them brown things is 100+/-25m, or so (depending on terain).....this makes good shot placement easy and alows couple well AIMED shots if bad shit happens.

Prairie Boy,

Detachable magazine? You really do like living on the edge, don't you.

You take a good factory rifle to a gunsmith before you hunt dangerous game with it for the same reason you take a stock car to a mechanic before you drive it out on the racing circuit.

I've used a 338 WM lots and a 375 HH some.

I like them both, but I agree that unless you go the custom route, most 375's are a pound or so heavier than off-the-shelf 338's.

One thing is for sure (to me anyways), the advantages a 375 has over a 338 at close range on big stuff outweighs the trajectory advantage of the 338.

The 338 is more versitile,but the 375 doesn't have to be a 10 lb rig,you could get a light weight remington stainless for north american game,or even the 375 ultra.It depends on what you want,if all you need is versatility go 338 win,but if you just want to hunt with a big bore nothing wrong with the 375.

My Sako AIII only weighs a little over eight pounds. Ive shot everything from elephant and buffalo to mule deer with it with one shot kills and overall good results. I have a leupold 1 3/4 X6 on mine and although its objective was a little small for leopard I did ok as mine came in early. I wouldnt hesitate to use it on large bears. I use nosler 260 partitions for north america and 300 grainers for africa.

Prairie Boy

I personally am a huge fan of the 338 but the 375 as suggested by Gunny can be a very portable rifle. My current rifle with a 1.75X6 weighs 8.5 pounds and I find that about right. This rifle also likes the 270 gr TSX at about 2760 FPS which makes it shoot as flat as the 338 with a 250 gr. bullet and deliver a little more thump. The real advantage is if you ever go to Africa you don't need another rifle. If it rings your bell buy it. As for your scope choice I've done 2 safaris with a 375 with a 2.5X8 and been perfectly comfortable. In fact I'm having a 375 Weatherby built and it will come with a 2.5x8 Leupold mounted.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The one advantage the .338 has over the .375 is trajectory in that it can sling a 210 Nolser at 3005 FPS and thats one flat shooting load that the .375 cannot compete with...

Raymondo .. Care to wager a buffalo hunt on that statement?

Ditto 470 Mbogo ... but I'd add 100+ fps to that .375/270 grain loading.

Thanks for your comments Mark Young since you have the products that i'm interested in and are talking from experiance with them.Not that iI want to open the debate on the whole CRF or push feed, but do you think i'm making a huge mistake buying a rifle like this in a Sako, because I love my 7MM and I thought the .375H&H would be a good addition to my collection in the kind of rifle that I like.

Prairie boy,

Please reconsider the detachable magazine thought. For road hunting they are great...just pop the mag out and you're good to go. BUT I just don't like the drawbacks of DMs.

First, you have one more item to lose or forget. Do not disregard this aspect please!
A lost (or accidently released) mag means a poorly thought out single shot!

Second, in any DM I know of you can't top off the mag from the port...you have to remove the mag and load it. My Sako TRG-S rifles have DMs and at first I was a big booster of them but then later on saw them as a drawback. I would LOVE to trade the DM of my 338 Lapua for a floorplate! For me, it is easier to top load a round or two to fill the mag rather than drop the mag and do it. This is a hunting arm and not a tactical one such as an AR.

Third, the DMs (may) protrude more from the belly of the stock and are not as nice to carry as the floorplate models. This last is the least of my gripes and will vary on the rifle model.

Others will sing the benefits of DMs (and they are VERY popular now) But I thought I would chime in with my thoughts.

Take care,

John