What is considered acceptable accuracy for a Dangerous game rifle. At 50 yards and 100 yards?

I want 1.5" or less at 50.

How long is a piece of string?

Are you talking about an iron sighted double for use on buffalo and elephant, or a scoped medium for use on everything including DG?

Realistically, for general buff and elephant use 1" at 50 is fine for a scoped rifle a and 3" is fine for an iron sighted double.

The worse the accuracy the closer you have to get. That goes for eyes and ability too.

Try to get the best accuracy possible to eliminate as much error as possible.

I think you should be able to stand offhand and hit a 6 inch circle at 50 yards every time. With scope or irons. If you can't do that get closer.

OK here is my dilemma. I sighted in two rifles at 100 yards yesterday. I shot a 2 shot group with my 458 Win Mag on 4 power at just over a 1/2 inch,using factory Hornady 500gr at 2109 average. My 375 H&H with factory Hornady 270 gr. at 2800 (althou half were RP and half SP)shot a 5 shot group at 2 inches at 100 yards. My next hunt will be an Elephant or Buff and for sure I want another Zebra. I am a little concerned about the accuracy of the 375? I do handload so I can tinker. I am currently thinking maybe a bedding job on the 375?

Try a couple different loads in the 375 before you start thinking of toying with the rifle. 2" at 100 yards is not far off the mark.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
My 375 H&H with factory Hornady 270 gr. at 2800 (althou half were RP and half SP) shot a 5 shot group at 2 inches at 100 yards. My next hunt will be an Elephant or Buff and for sure I want another Zebra. I am a little concerned about the accuracy of the 375? I do handload so I can tinker. I am currently thinking maybe a bedding job on the 375?

Wait, did I understand you correctly? You shot one five shot group with two different bullets and all five shots landed into a 2" and you are concerned?!

I would be more than happy with those results.

quote:

Originally posted by JBrown:

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
My 375 H&H with factory Hornady 270 gr. at 2800 (althou half were RP and half SP) shot a 5 shot group at 2 inches at 100 yards. My next hunt will be an Elephant or Buff and for sure I want another Zebra. I am a little concerned about the accuracy of the 375? I do handload so I can tinker. I am currently thinking maybe a bedding job on the 375?

Wait, did I understand you correctly? You shot one five shot group with two different bullets and all five shots landed into a 2" and you are concerned?!

I would be more than happy with those results.

I was thinking the same thing.

I don't know of any smallish 2" animals that would escape that type of shooting. Like the song says " Don't worry, be happy"

Do you have any idea of the size of the heart on a Cape Buff? Your groups are more than good enough as is, so why mess with a good thing? Also, it is highly unlikely that you will be shooting DG at 100 yards. Much more likely to be 25-50 yards.

I guess my concern is it would be 4 inch's at 200 yards on a Zebra.

Try some Swift A-Frames. They were the clear favorite in my .375 H&H. The Hornady's shot decent too, but the Swifts were much better.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
I guess my concern is it would be 4 inch's at 200 yards on a Zebra.

Get closer.
Realistically, the zebras I have shot or my family have shot were under 100yds.

Your gun is fine.

here are the groups

Michael458 Solids and Non-Cons into the same general hole using the same load for both solids and Non-Cons!

1/2 or 1/3 of the " killzone" diameter of whatever you are hunting. 2" at one hundred is as good as an arbitrary standard as any

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
here are the groups

If the 2-shot group at 12 o'clock is from the RP and the 3-shot group at 2 o'clock is the SP (or vice-versa) then I think you are good to go if you pick one and stick with it.

Based on the writings of people more experienced than I, the only DG that will need solids is elephant, for everything else it's softs.

Find the soft you like best and sight in with it. Find the solid you like best and find out where it prints and how many "clicks" to move windage and elevation.

Since the .375 is your back-up, have it sighted in for the softs so you are ready for PG. Take both softs and solids with you and if your 458 fails, breaks or something else, you'll know how to correct the scope for the solids and then need only fine-tune wih a shot or two on a target.

Better yet, have the scope set for softs and irons for solids since, if you are going to use it for elephant, you'll be close enough not to need the scope.

Finally, do what drewhenrytnt said, get some CEB solids and non-cons and see if they all go into the same hole.

Good luck with your safari

Two thoughts and I ain't hunted dangerous game or been to Africa.

1. DG or not, I hvae ran across very few critters that were going to be standing around waiting for you to try and finish a group on their hide after the first shot.

2. Worry about putting the first shot where you want it. Don't concern yourself with the "Double Tap" unless your PH says "Whack Him Again".

Your second or third shots if necessary are not going to be taken under conditions that are going to allow a whole lot of time to be terribly precise. Adrenalin is going to be flowing freely for your first shot, if all you do is piss off the recipient of that first shot, grouping shots or being concerned about group sizes is going to be about the farthest thing from your mind. JMO.

quote:

Originally posted by Slider:
What is considered acceptable accuracy for a Dangerous game rifle. At 50 yards and 100 yards?

Hey Slider

Excellent question and discussion, and you have received some excellent advice thus far. I might as well throw my hat in the circle, let you know what I think. But, I am going to keep it to the original question---DGR cartridge, bullet, rifle. Assume two different rifles--Bolt/Double, what I consider adequate. And why!


First, keep DGR to 50 yards. While I am guilty, many others are guilty of taking that first shot further than 50 yards, I consider 50 yards max range for taking a first shot on DG. I much rather be 25 yds and inside. So I work primary at 50 yards, and move in. Sighting my rifles for 50 yards, and working in to get POI at both 25 and as close as 10 yards once final sight in and POI at 50 has been established. Sometimes, but rare, I will check these at 100 yds, but I have little need to do so, and very rarely do so. I have found very good consistency by sighting my primary load/bullet around 1 inch high at 50 yards, and this puts me pretty much good to go at 100-150 yards with a DGR for that zebra or kudu or what have you.

JBrown brings up an excellent point--Double or bolt, scoped or irons, and the X power of the scope is also a factor. I use small scopes on my bolt DGRs. 1.5X5---1X4, and most of the time heavy duplex. Now that is not conducive to shooting tiny bug hole groups at 100 yards! While many can do that from time to time, I have done it from time to time, the heavy duplex covers a lot of target at 100 yds. So if you are at 4X and heavy duplex, consistent 1.5-2 inch groups I think are very acceptable for 100 yd work, and having that occasional smaller group thrown in because the light was just right, or the gods were on your side at that point!

Now back to DGR ranges, 50 yds and in. I have been getting ready the last few weeks a couple of rifles, with several different loads and bullets I want to try out in the field. Have been steady shooting and getting POI and accuracy standards down pat for these two rifles and bullets I have decided to work with. Now, some bullets I have throw to the side because either POI is too far off normal, or accuracy issues for whatever reason.

First, this is NOT acceptable accuracy to me for a scoped bolt gun at 50 yds. And, this bullet will not be in my inventory.

However--Keep this in mind--If this was an iron sighted double rifle shooting both barrels, then this is fairly acceptable I would think, as long as over the longer term, several shooting sessions, that it kept up at least this consistency, sometimes being tighter, and as one moved closer and sight become better that the groups tightened up at 25 and less!

But for a 1X4 scoped bolt gun---NO, not acceptable.




Some examples of what I will accept in my rifles and bullets, scoped 1X4 bolt at 50. On some occasions I throw one out, I sign off on it, we can't all be 100% every shot, and I am most certainly not, I throw one from time to time.










Right now today, this is my current POI for my Winchester M70 500 MDM at 50 yds. Primary bullet that I am working with is a 460 BBW#13 NonCon at 2450 fps. This is backed by a 500 BBW#13 at 2380. Now I could up the velocity of the 500 Solid a bit, bring that POI closer if I wanted, but I can work with this no issues in field operations. In shooting buffalo at 25-50 yards one will never notice the difference in POI in the field. Even out to 100 yds on a second or third shot if required, this will be dandy.



This target shows my 458 B&M with 420 BBW#13 NonCon and 450 BBW#13 Solid, and lower is the 480 BBW#13 Solid. Primary is the 420 NonCon and 450 BBW#13 Solid.




And my final POI with the 420/450 Combo.




If I could shoot better these groups would be better! While there are some limiting factors, I know the bullet/load is very capable of putting 3 rds in the same hole at 50, if I do my part, which sometimes is hard to do!

Just last week our buddy 450NE came down to pick up some of his rifles and first 50 yard group he ever fired out of his 416 B&M put 3 325 BBW#13s at 2500 fps in the SAME .416 caliber HOLE at 50 yds! It was slightly to the left, moved 3 clicks right, and he repeated the same group, only dead center, 1 inch high at 50 yds, don't get any better than that!

I packed my mess and quit playing with 450NE! LOL..........

Hope that gives you some ideas.

Michael

Jut a question and not trying to be a smart ass, but are those groups off hand or from a bench?

Crazy

Oh hell, those are bench groups. I am working on sighting in, POI--Points of Impact--with different bullets, and of course accuracy. You have to do these things from the bench, I am testing rifle, bullet, load and POI, not Michael! Michael gets tested after all this work is completed. So everything you see here is the bench work--Which has to be done first and foremost to get things right, before getting off the bench!

Michael

Thanks for the answer and comments.

I was just curious, since I have hunted with folks that could produce results close to that off the bench, but somehow when you put them shooting off hand at something with hair/blood/bone and muscle, their accuracy and shot control goes sort of wobbly.

I can not even comprehend how much more stressful it is when your looking down the barrel at something, that if that first shot does not go exactly where intended or dang close to that point has the ability and capability to have your remains sent home in a very small box.

I agree it is good to know what your gun and you can do under a controlled situation, but I have been involved into many situation involving animals that can't really hurt you no matter how hard they tried, and was glad that it wasn't something that could have made a mudhole out of me or the shooter.

So as stated earlier a 3 inch group is ok for a double why wouldn't it be ok for a bolt gun.

One doesn't need sub moa groups to kill lots of game. Unless one is shooting at them well past 300 yards.

They are nice to have and brag about but it is not needed on big game.

Well, I expect a lot more from a proper platform, Winchester M70, than one expects from two rifles glued together to make one! That's why 3 inches at 50 yds is NOT acceptable for a Winchester M70!

Needed or not is not the question! The question is, "What is Considered", and that's what I consider!

LOL

Take an whupping from my double buddies! LOL

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Well, I expect a lot more from a proper platform, Winchester M70, than one expects from two rifles glued together to make one! That's why 3 inches at 50 yds is NOT acceptable for a Winchester M70!

Needed or not is not the question! The question is, "What is Considered", and that's what I consider!

+1

And to add my own 2 cents, it would be unacceptable for the same reason that a bolt action that only held 2 rounds would be unacceptable.

“What is considered acceptable accuracy for a Dangerous game rifle. At 50 yards and 100 yards? “

IMHO to me a Dangerous Game rifle will be .375 and up and equipped with iron sights, fast handling and balance is more important that optics, and yes some bolt actions can offer this although personally I prefer a DR.

To answer the question: It is my ability to keep all my shots inside 5 ½ inches under field conditions with my chosen rifle from 50 to 5 yds. At 50 yds I need some support to do this as I can’t guarantee to hold under 5 ½ inches off hand. An accurate rifle helps but sub MOA is not essential. While I don’t plan on firing at DG at 100 yds I know that from a supported position under field conditions I should be able to hold within 12 inches with my .470 NE, with my 8 Bore I would have to get closer.

Field conditions include, a fast heart, some excitment, heat and sweat! With out that it wouldn't be a DG hunt.

If a non hunter had asked that question I would first advise he or she watch Saeed's hunting DVDs as they appear to be very realistic. Than I would say, practice as you are going to hunt. Find out from your PH, what does a typicle hunt look like; how long do you walk, under what conditions, how will you shoot (off sticks?), how far is the usual sprint before the second shot, etc etc. At this point I would expect him or her to say "But I'm asking about the accuracy of the rifle!". To which I would reply, I am talking about the performance of the system; hunter, rifle and ammunition in field conditions. That's what most PHs talk about. Can the hunter hit a pie plate at 50 yards in field conditions? The real concern about the rifle is its mechanical condition. Here I definately include the scope if the rifle is so equiped.

quote:

Originally posted by I Bin Therbefor:
If a non hunter had asked that question I would first advise he or she watch Saeed's hunting DVDs as they appear to be very realistic. Than I would say, practice as you are going to hunt. Find out from your PH, what does a typicle hunt look like; how long do you walk, under what conditions, how will you shoot (off sticks?), how far is the usual sprint before the second shot, etc etc. At this point I would expect him or her to say "But I'm asking about the accuracy of the rifle!". To which I would reply, I am talking about the performance of the system; hunter, rifle and ammunition in field conditions. That's what most PHs talk about. Can the hunter hit a pie plate at 50 yards in field conditions? The real concern about the rifle is its mechanical condition. Here I definately include the scope if the rifle is so equiped.

+1

In a bolt gun I want at least 1" at 50 yards with irons and hopefully at 100. I might need to poke one of those big bullets in somethings eye...With a double I wan't 1.5..I have not had much trouble getting that, but a few guns won't do it, I wouldn't rush out and get rid of a 2" inch gun. Also with big bores I can shoot irons and scope about equally out to 100 or so yards as the range lenthens the scope will take over.