Jhrosier,

what is the model # of the old style steel or redfield reciver site that will fir my reproduction 1886 45/70....I have a newer Lyman that is made of the aluminium and I would like a steel one as well.

Judge
I'm thinking I'll divide the difference between the 300 grain Hornady and the 400 grain Woodleighs, and go for 350 grain cast for now. After Christmas, I'll get one the Corbins to make a set of swaging dies for the 405. Again I'll opt for a blunt nosed 350 grain bullet, maybe in a solid configuration, or a capped soft point.
Jim

DPhillips

Hay I did the same thing to my BLR in stainless
9 1/2 rib three leaf sight's banded front sight


Makes a world of diffrent's for my poor tired eyes

I had a 95/405 made up by Kreiger several years ago when he first started building them with the same idea to take it to Africa for Lion.I have NECG ERA sights on mine with the Masterpiece rear and the Universal ramp front with red fiber insert. Gives you all the adjustment you could ask for and looks good too in my opinion. Never pursued the project further after buying a box of Woodleigh 400gr and not able make it all come together. Loaded some 300gr DKT and then kinda let the project drop as I got off on another tangent. I really wanted to use the 95 though and still do. You have rekindled a fire that should have probably stayed out.

jhrosier
Thanks for the heads up on the Lyman 66.
Jim

Not to knock ole "TR", but lets remember one thing. He had been hurt in a boxing match the month before going to Africa,and freely admits it affected his eye sight, and he couldn't see the sights well.



That looks like one that was built by Z-Hat, for one of the guys over at Shootersforum

This one's for you, Ray!

Ya gotta love that Phillips gun!!!

Gentlemen

ONE question

Why it is that Americans are so eager to take their cowboy calibers to Africa.
45/70, 405, 444 Marlin etc.???
What happened to use enough gun ?

OK two questions

Cheers,

Andr�

JudgeG,



If you're going to do it Roosevelt style you gotta run them down on horseback and pester them to death with rapid fire. The way I ride a horse, we'd fall in a hole somewhere's and end up as hyena crap!



When fired @2,200fps into water jugs at 50 yards the 300gr Hornady lost it's jacket every time, guess it makes a good sabot .



The 400gr Woodleigh soft at 2,050fps held together even when it hit rocks on the impact area. I'd be interested in how the 300gr Woodleigh does but haven't gotten around to buying any. The Woodleigh 400gr solid will go through three folded over sections of a PASGT vest, five jugs of water and a foot of wet sand when launched @2,000fps. Don't know about dangerous game but they'll surely make a hole through stuff laying around the range!



Hodgdon's tech guy I talked with over the phone seemed to think that H4895 was the powder of choice for the .405, but that was before they published their data. I'm using Varget but I'm sure there's a faster powder that's better, it just works good for me.



Looks to me like you need a 350 - 370gr blunt nosed monometal solid for your new toy.

Ray,

As I stated ealier and the picture support, the locking bars on the M1886 / M71 are JUST rearward of the loading port on the sides NOT rear of the action.

I have had 94's in 30-30 jam from time to time, nothing major, and the 12 ga M1300 is FAR worse. I was around a 45-90 M1886 which was fine with 300 gr pills but would have issues with 405 grain bullets. Go figure.

It is simply a matter of control. In the tubular fed rifles the round is UNCONTROLLED during it's trip from the tube to the chamber. In the BOX magazine rifle aka M1895, the round is CONTROLLED by the magazine lips! It is really that simple.

Must be bored again, eh.

ASS_CLOWN

Clown,
You stated the bars came up in the middle of the action and they are in the rear on each side anyway you look at it...no need for a picture I have about 6 of them in my gun cabinet...Just thought I should claify your statement. How many 94s, 86s and 71s from the factory have you ever had jam on you?? I have been shooting them for 60 years or so and have never had a single jam..

DJ,
That's the same rifle.

Zeglin built this rifle from a repro chambered in 270 Win. It's now a 411 Hawk. My only criticism about the rifle is the tang safety. I really do not like that thing. I find it ridiculous to have an external safety on an exposed hammer lever action rifle.

Bob,

Actually if you took the time to read the two post exchange between Ray and I, he started it. I figured he was bored and just wanted to have a little "heated discussion". To support this assumption, consider the amount of time between the my post, which Ray took exception to, and Ray's post. This was a basically dead thread.

You will also note that in my first reply to Ray, I stated it depended upon how you defined "rear locking". I define it as locking lugs/plates AT THE REAR. Clearly our definitions differ.

Really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. I still maintain that the M1895 by design has a more reliable feeding system to the older tubular magazine of the M1886 / M71. Note I said "BY DESIGN". That means it is possible to screw up in the execution of said design.

Andre,

I think there is a bit of romantic nostalgia to the why's and wherefores. I really cannot comprehend using any of these lever guns for DG. For heavy timber where ranges are limited to 50 yards or less and the query is black bear, moose, and elk I think they are fine.

ASS_CLOWN

I want to use my 1886, 45-70 and my 1895, 405 Winchester on plains game. I'm relatively new at this African hunting game, but I'm betting that a 1,000 pound moose and a 1,000 pound African antelope require just about the same amount of killing.
I could purchase a 375 H&H, use factory ammo and make all the same kills, but the inspiration to make the bullets, test for the best loads, and practice, and practice for the year prior to the hunt would not be there. For me, it will be more of a hunting experience to use iron sights and a bullet of my own manufacture to make the kill.
I have no desire to hunt elephants, lions, leopards, Cape Buffalos, any of the critters with nasty reputations, period. I cannot afford the price of the hunt nor the licence for any of the above, plus I don't have the urge to hunt and kill one of the above.
Those cowboy guns were designed to be powerful, accurate for a period in time where a man needed them to protect his life. There's no reason that they cannot do the same a hundred plus years later. The 45-70 and the 405 have dropped uncounted numbers of Grizzly, Brown, Kodiac, Polar bears, add in the bison, moose, elk, those calibers have a pretty impressive record.
Jim

RJM

Thanks so very much. I'll give them a lookingup.
Jim

ANYBODY who would not only wear those PJ's in Africa, much less show them on AR, probably has enough gall to hunt buff with a switch.



PS Bring another bottle of CRAGGANMORE when you come to Dallas.

N E 450 No2
That particular outfit is the required attire for hunting with British doubles.
Should you wish to hunt with a lever action, bib overalls are the proper style statement.
Jim

I just received a special package from Mike at North Fork. He had a wee few .411 360 grain bullets around and was kind enough to send them to me. I just may??? be able to load them on the last rib?? and get them to feed properly. I'll let everyone know when I get a chance to get to the reloading bench.

Mike also sent me a few .475 solids... oowwwwwwwhhhh... they are some mean, mean looking bullets. While I am a fan of expanding, premium bullets for first shots on buffalo, the North Fork solid generates confidence with that big ol' meplat. I hope they regulate in my Searcy!

I just discovered this thread after looking at my own about the .405...some great information here.
Has anyone tried the receiver sight and white line front post from Ashley Outdoors for the M95 Winchester? Brownells used to carry them but has discontinued them. AO still has them direct on line however.
Just threw out a Barns catalog a few months ago that had .405 (.411 diameter) bullets in 350 and 400 grain solids. It appears however that they are not currently made but a note on the Barnes site says that anything they used to make can still be made.
Has anyone tried the Hawk Bullets in a .405? They look like they would work well.
Currenly I have a Ruger #1 stainless/laminated with a 1.5-5 Leupold in Ruger low rings. Also one of the new M95s that is having a Pachmayr Decellorator pad put on. The smith is using the thinest pad possible and not altering the stock so that the original can go back on.
Loads so far for big game have just been the 300 grain Hornady RN. 64 grains of WW748 give right at factory MV of 2200 fps. The three factory rounds I chronoed ran 2197, 2193 and 2196. The Ruger will cloverleaf 3 shots at 50 yards. Have not had time to do 100 yet.
For a fun load I have been using the Speer Gold Dot HP with 30 grains of 2400. It blows up water filled objects nicely and should be a nice coyote load. This load came out of the #1 Lyman Reloading Manual.
Thanks again for all the great information especailly on the IMR3031 powder.

Bob

"DP" yep I understand,I have one of the Browning-95's in 30-40,that I wanted to convert to either 35win or 405, but will more than likely sell it now, that I have the 450NE

.

The front site on the Winchester appears to be specific to the Winchester. Does Winchester, or anybody else, offer replacement sites?
Jim

Judge,

Well said!! I wish more hunters would practice the stalk and get within "range" so to speak. It really is "more sporting" IMHO. By the way, I was taught by my recurve bow hunting Daddy, who to my knowledge never used a tree stand, to hunt in that manner, and I still like stalking BEST.

As I have said numerous times on this thread I think your 405 will do just fine. Good luck and good hunting with that 405 of yours.

ASS_CLOWN

PS - I wish I could shoot those semi-buckhorn sights as well as you do!

arkypete,



Here is the link to Ashley sights:



Ashley Outdoors sights link



Click on their "on-line store" and then click on "Winchester" in their list of "manufacturers".



I think I will pass on their sights. Not what I am looking for.



ASS_CLOWN

JefferyDenmark and the rest:



First, since Roosevelt's safari(s) and the .405 are pretty much "post" cowboy era, and both rifle and cartridge are long connected to Africa, I don't really consider the caliber just "cowboy". The round, in my rifle, well within pressure limits (and I'm not talking .45/70 on steroids here), will duplicate the old "tropical" loads in the .450/400 3 1/4" or 1950 f.p.s. with a 400 grain Woodleigh bullet. Particularly with a whopping .338 sectional density, the "killing" efficiency of the bullet/velocity is well documented. So.. other than the obvious that it's a potent round, why do I want to hunt with it, and particularly in a lever gun?



One may as well ask the same question about the .470 Double that I will be also using (but no one will???). My Searcy, though brand new, and the .470 N.E. cartridge, are both turn of the century design. Why do I bow hunt with traditional longbows and recurves? Why do I enjoy reading from the Book of Common Prayer? The immediate answer, at least to me, is that old stuff works, too... and is very, very rewarding to use.



I guess that there are two other, "discussable" reasons...



First, I've already been there and done that in Africa (and Alaska and Manitoba and Idaho and ad nausem) with modern, scope sighted, bolt action rifles, killing a truck load of stuff. Now, in my dodderage, I find it more rewarding to have to get within 50 yards, or so, of game (even plains game), than taking longer shots. I fully realize that I'll blow more stalks, probably take some animals that aren't the biggest around and have to work harder, but I makes the experience more memorable to me... I took a .375 Express double (270 grain bullets at 1950 f.p.s.) to Africa last year for plains game, and had a ball.. and..



Secondly, I do believe that there is a bottom limit as to what is ethical to use on DG. Convention says that a 9.3x62 is the bottom and my .470 at the top tier of "comfortable" rifles to shoot. While I don't believe the .405 Winchester (particularly with the lightly constructed Hornady 300 grain bullets and resultant penetration problems) is adequete for larger plains game, much less DG, I began this thread, trying to discover (and I did) if a well-constructed (read Woodleigh) 400 grain bullet could be safely made to funcion at 1950 f.p.s. in the new and strong Model 1895. My rifle now feeds flawlessly with very, very quick 2nd through 4th shots, packs a punch that is within conventional wisdom for DG (albeit at the bottom), is very quick pointing, light to carry and last Saturday, off hand, I shot a deer target four times at 100 yards, as fast as I could cycle the action and put all in the heart-lung area. I'm not sure that I could do better with a bolt-action, scope-sighted rifle, and certainly not as rapidly.



I believe that the combination (with the lengthened throat and the 400 grain bullets) has been bumped up to a practicable and effective rifle (maybe better still with the receiver sight now enroute), perfectly capable of killing a buffalo (I'd pass on an elephant, I think) with a well placed shot (or two)... and.. I'm going to enjoy taking my second buff next year with it.. assuring some close (but not particularly dangerous) encounters with some of God's creatures.



And.. I don't care what anyone says.. it ain't your grandaddy's .45/70.



Anybody want to go "trust busting"? Maybe that'll be my next adventure. After all, I'm an over-the-hill and overweight-gone-to-seed athlete, myopic, have a great mustache, I've been a sometimes successful politician and, even though I've not won the Nobel Peace Prize and the Medal of Honor, I do love Africa... and while never having met met Selous, I've walked on some of the same dirt. Delightful! Delightful!

Aren't the original 450-400 ballistics (both 3" and 3.25" versions) 400 grains at 2150 fps?

If North Fork can get a 350 - 360 grain bullet on the market that will work in the 405 Win M1895 I will buy them, it is a pain in the arse cutting down those Woodleighs.

ASS_CLOWN

Ray is also sending me a jock strap that would tote a couple of grapefruit!!

Counting coup is not an impossibility in July in the Selous. To make Ray's point, two years ago I saw ... say... 500 buffalo during the week, and not one from the vehicle. You who have been there will figure out what that means. 1115, stand by!

Mike at North Fork will be pressure testing some 360 grain .411 bullets for us soon with them loaded to 1895 magazine length. They surely would be nice to use if they'll readily feed. If not, maybe he can "shorten" them to 350 grains??? What a great guy! He reads and volunteers... maybe he doesn't know what he's getting into. In any event, Mike says he'll be at the "Make Fun of Ray" party in Dallas. Let's support one of us who's ready to meet our needs!

www.northforkbullets.com

And them's not p.j's. That's a South Georgia tuxedo. Notice the Red Man stain on the pant's leg!

Stalking buffalo where the Judge hunts ( with Pierre ) is not some sacred secret indian skill, keeping them off of you is the hard part!! and at the same time not dumping in the old shorts! ...Lord I love the high grass in July and August, it just makes the blood rush. My own personal high, and Saeed takes to it like a duck to water...

I have had them move me around in the high grass and I couldn't see them, smell them? Yes, hear the stomach rumble? Yes, Could reach out and feel them? that too, shoot them in that situation, sometimes yes and sometimes retreat! Get on your knees and look for nuts so you know which one to shoot? could have, chose not to!

A 405 should work for him in July next year thats when he is booked...I am sending him a bayonet and a long thread of rawhide to tie it on with...