Hi,

after finishing my .458 lott project I need some advice for an elephant load (cz with 25inches barrel). I want to load 500grains woodleigh solids. What do you think about 2300 feet per second similar to the hornady factory load.
The norma african ph factory load seems a little bit to slow for me. Thanks for every input.

I'd use a flat point solid of about 450 grains. The flat point is superior in every way IMHO

Dentist

What has served me excellent in the past is 82 grs of RL 15--500 gr Barnes Banded Solid-FN. Proven on buff and elephant. It produces 2275 fps in my Winchester M70s-24 inch barrels.

Start lower please-79-80 gr work up. This load has been pressure tested and tested in 115 degree weather.

A couple of years ago a chap I know had a 458 Lott in a 25 inch CZ--I did what I could for him, and figured this load would really move in the 25 inch barrel. I was surprised when it did 150 fps less in the CZ barrel??? This load will also work with the Woodleighs if you so desire.

Michael

Thank you, but I´m limited to 500grains woodleigh solids, because I already have them.
I´m not sure how fast I can drive them without getting pressure problems for a hot late season zim hunt next year. Its better to load them in summer then now(cold winter temperature here)?

Dentist

Try the RL 15 it is great for all those heavy bullets and straight cases. Like I said the load I gave you above will work with the Woodleighs too. And has been pressure tested, and has been in Zimbabwe late season where daily temps ran from 110-115 degrees. That was October of 2004. While every rifle is different, you are correct to test in hot weather, start lower work up, your rifle may be different from my Winchesters. I have used this load in at least 6 different rifles of mine.

Good luck-happy to help out if you need anything, shot 458 Lott for many many years,and many 1000s of rounds downrange in them.

Michael

Thank you michael458!

That`s what I needed: a proven load from someone who used it under field conditions like you.

Any other input?

Dentist

You are most welcome. Other Input? LOL--yeah probably more than you can put up with! LOL.

I would check into getting some of the Barnes I mentioned above.

I would also not get too hung up on any certain velocity. If your rifle shoots this bullet at 2200 fps--that is more than enough to do what you need. If it is 2150 fps and accurate, that too is more than enough. Between 2150 and 2250 fps is magic for this work, so don't get hung up on 2300 fps- or any particular velocity-if it is somewhere 2150-2250 and accurate, be happy and be confident it will do the job, as it most certainly will!

In addition jwp75 mentioned 450 gr bullets--they too will do the job at hand, but in 458 Lott I prefer the 500s. In 458 Winchester and my 458 B&M because of case capacity I use the 450s.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by michael458

I would also not get too hung up on any certain velocity. If your rifle shoots this bullet at 2200 fps--that is more than enough to do what you need. If it is 2150 fps and accurate, that too is more than enough. Between 2150 and 2250 fps is magic for this work, so don't get hung up on 2300 fps- or any particular velocity-if it is somewhere 2150-2250 and accurate, be happy and be confident it will do the job,
Michael

Also Woodleigh 450 550grn bullets are another great option for Ele with the 458LOTT.

I own the 458 Lott also and have loaded some solids FPS 2320 500gr bullets. witch is all that you need for an Elephant.

quote:

Originally posted by Dentist:
Thank you, but I´m limited to 500grains woodleigh solids, because I already have them.

That's the worst reason in the world.

Anyone contemplating an elephant hunt would be well advised to obtain the best bullets they can. Anything is false economy.

George

George,

Are you saying those 500 grains Woodleigh's solids are not very good bullets for elephant ?

L

Hola, Lorenzo.

That isn't what I'm saying; I'm saying that limiting oneself to a particular bullet because that is what you have on hand is unwise.
For all 'dentist' knows, the Woodleighs may not feed, or shoot well. What good are they then?

George
P.S. Have the Uruguayan authorities come to their senses about caliber limitations, or are they still afraid I'll take over the country with my .470 Capstick?

Vihtavuori N540 works well in my .458 Lott with 500 grain Woodleighs.

I have used 87 grains to get to 2,300 fps.

Back off to 83 grains in your rifle and work up with a chronograph.

MR,

Have you noticed any bullet failure at 2300fps?

I used .474/500gr. Woodleigh softs at velocities in excess of their rating and had them flatten out on Cape buff.

George

For me the question of velocity and pressure pushing 500 grain bullets usually has nothing to do with the mechanical thresholds of the gun/cartridge. When I push 500 grains 2300 fps or faster I can't handle the recoil. So while I may have found a really hot load...I can't shoot it well.

A 500 grain load at 2150-2200 is a load I can handle...so that's what I shoot.

Thanks again michael458.
Your opinion is quite similar to what I found out as a conclusion from many conversations with experienced hunting friends who was there and have done it. Wanted to hear some more opinions.

What is the real advantage with about 2300 fps 500grs woodleigh solid loads, which mrlexma and others mentioned? (I want to use them only for elephants and nothing else)

And to GeorgeS
I correct myself: I`m not really limited. I better should have said: I already bought them and that decision was made after much discussion with everybody who was in my opinion suitable and available for me. I also searched in books, the internet, on this an other forums. It´s not like this: Oh...there is this box full of woodleigh bullets in my garage and I have this rifle. So put them somehow together and blast some elephants.
Forgive me george , my language of origin is not Enlish.

The reason for starting this discussion was to get the best elephant load with a fixed gun/ bullet combo in a certain calibre.

When I shot my bull and tuskless in 2007 I just borrowed a cz .375 H&H from the ph. Until today I dont know what solid I actually used and it worked too. This was because of the short booking and because there was no time to make this reflections and get my own rifle. I ve just trusted the PH. He had little bit more practice and experience than me. There was no problem.

Now there is more time to reach the optimum gun/ load. And IMHO that is what especially these wonderful and majestic creatures like elephants and naturally all other species deserve. The worse option is just order some factory solids.

Please continue with more input. The more input the more testing and choice for me.

Dentist

You are welcome. Other powders that you might have on hand that will also do a good job is Varget and V-N140. I have good results from both of those, but have not taken those loads to work.

I am not going to get into another running battle with round nose vs flat nose. I much prefer a Barnes Banded solid FN end of story. I see little or no advantage to any of the solids at 2300 fps concerning penetration. 2150-2250 fps will be more than enough penetration. You mention several times this is for elephant only, and therefore my only concern is for penetration. I don't think there is anything wrong, or a major issue with 2300 fps, just that it really is not going to buy you anything extra concerning the solids and penetration.

Michael

George,

I have used the .458 caliber, 500 grain Woodleigh Weldcore RNSP in my Lott to kill two cape buffalo.

We were only able to recover one bullet. The shot was a frontal shot into the chest and the bullet penetrated about four feet into the paunch. Here's a photo of it.



We didn't have time to recover the bullet from the other buff as it was getting dark.

The bullet pictured lost over 100 grains of weight, but it held together very well and penetrated deep into the buff's belly. It certainly worked, so I have no complaints.

But I have decided that, at 2,300 fps, a tougher bullet, such as an A-Frame, a Northfork or a TSX would be better for buff than the Woodleigh soft. I like to shoot for the shoulder when I can, and I would hate to have a too soft bullet fail on those big bones.

The Woodleigh solids I have used have all performed perfectly for me.

Thanks. I'm an avowed Swift fan; it was my mistake to use the Woodleigh at ~2380fps.

George

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
George,

I have used the .458 caliber, 500 grain Woodleigh Weldcore RNSP in my Lott to kill two cape buffalo.

We were only able to recover one bullet. The shot was a frontal shot into the chest and the bullet penetrated about four feet into the paunch. Here's a photo of it.



We didn't have time to recover the bullet from the other buff as it was getting dark.

The bullet pictured lost over 100 grains of weight, but it held together very well and penetrated deep into the buff's belly. It certainly worked, so I have no complaints.

But I have decided that, at 2,300 fps, a tougher bullet, such as an A-Frame, a Northfork or a TSX would be better for buff than the Woodleigh soft. I like to shoot for the shoulder when I can, and I would hate to have a too soft bullet fail on those big bones.

The Woodleigh solids I have used have all performed perfectly for me.

How did the buff react to the shot from the bullet pictured? Did it go right down? Are these the new Woodleighs? A 550gr might be a better choice.

mrlexma and George

For first shots on buff in 458 Lott I have used both 500 Woodleigh softs and Swifts as first shots. The Woodleigh is fine if you keep the velocity around 2250 max. I much prefer the 500 Swift A at the same velocity, followed by 500 Barnes FN solids.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
But I have decided that, at 2,300 fps, a tougher bullet, such as an A-Frame, a Northfork or a TSX would be better for buff than the Woodleigh soft. I like to shoot for the shoulder when I can, and I would hate to have a too soft bullet fail on those big bones.

The Woodleigh PP configuration is a slower opening projectile.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Con:

quote:

Originally posted by mrlexma:
But I have decided that, at 2,300 fps, a tougher bullet, such as an A-Frame, a Northfork or a TSX would be better for buff than the Woodleigh soft. I like to shoot for the shoulder when I can, and I would hate to have a too soft bullet fail on those big bones.

The Woodleigh PP configuration is a slower opening projectile.
Cheers...
Con

The PP seemed really tough when I pounded the hell out of it with my hammer.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
The PP seemed really tough when I pounded the hell out of it with my hammer.

That test is useless; you cannot generate anywhere near the impact velocity of a 500gr. @2200fps with a hammer.

George

Another thing to note,is that big bore rds lose alot of energy,really fast as distances increase ever so little.A really tough bullet is needed at point blank range.If distances are over 50yds,then I feel confident that the 500gr Woodleigh softs will work great on body shots on buff.They are tough enough to break big bones on impact,and to expand rapidly to tranfer energy immediately to the vital area.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Another thing to note,is that big bore rds lose alot of energy,really fast as distances increase ever so little.A really tough bullet is needed at point blank range.If distances are over 50yds,then I feel confident that the 500gr Woodleigh softs will work great on body shots on buff.They are tough enough to break big bones on impact,and to expand rapidly to tranfer energy immediately to the vital area.

do YOU even believe the stuff that comes out of your mouth?
big bores loose energy fast..

yeah, that's why the 50 BMG, 404 cheytac, 416 barret, etc etc etc are only used for shots at man sized targets at OVER a mile..

Blunt bullets loose their velocity fast, george! Doesn't matter if it's a 17 rem or a 50 BMG

Why would anyone want to shoot buffalo or any sort of dangerous game past 50 yds anyway???? What would be the point in that???? I would rather even be much closer-25 or less!
Michael

A big attraction for the Woodleighs for me is that the solid and softs are accurate and group well together. I've spent a lot of time trying to get solid-A to print with soft-B. I do not think Woodleigh softs handle high velocity well and over-expand.

I recently got a Lott. I am intrigued at using 550 gr. Woodleighs at about 2100 fps. The softs should be hell on buffalo and the solids penetrate well.

Thanks for everybodys opinion.

Now my decision is to load 500 grains woodleigh solids at about 2200 fps and find an accurate load for my rifle. After I found a good load I will shoot about 50 rounds.
I will do the same thing with 500 grains barnes flat nose solids.
By this way I get more confidence to my new rifle and get some more practise. Also I can find out malfunctions / feeding problems or what else must be done on the action or the stock.
I will shoot the final elephant load with open sights and sight it in on 25 yards.

"Why would anyone want to shoot buffalo or any sort of dangerous game past 50 yds anyway???? What would be the point in that???? I would rather even be much closer-25 or less!
Michael"

1+
Its less fun to kill them from far away. On the other hand I would not say "i will never shoot big game over so and so many yards". If there is a 100lbs elephant or an injured animal or another good reason I will shoot as far as I think it`s ok for me.

My next project is to mount a detachable leupold (maybe 2x-8 or 1,5-5) on the same lott and work up a load with softs.

quote:

Originally posted by GeorgeS:
P.S. Have the Uruguayan authorities come to their senses about caliber limitations, or are they still afraid I'll take over the country with my .470 Capstick?

Hi GeorgeS!
Am i understanding you right that there are no troubles any more to bring a +.50 caliber rifle, like a .500 Jeffery or the mighty .505 Gibbs out from or in to the USA?

Just curious

Husky

The powder I use is IMR4320 85grs. It gives me with solids 2320 FPS. Thats with my Lott.

JRO45

What solids do you use and what rifle/ barrel length?

83.5grns IMR 4320, Woodleigh .500gr solid, 2220fps out of a Ruger Lott 24", good load that has worked great on elephant (brain shots). I use a drop tube, load is not compressed and I seat to std OAL.

I have a Barnes .450gr flat point banded solid load shooting at 2350fps (80grs H4895) which I have not used on ele (yet). Recoil is sharp.

Start lower, work up...

For comparison, I got an average of 2250-2300fps out of a factory Hornady .500gr load (deviation was more then w/my reloads).

I was at the range again today and tried my new Winchester magnum primers.My federal stock is running low and I purchased some from Winchester.The last time I had bought five thousand Federal match magnum primers that lasted me a long time.To my surprise and content,the Winchester primers reduced the size of my 458wm groups in half.How about that! Pictured below is a group with molly coated Woodleigh 500gr pointed soft points.Although I've been getting good groups with the same non coated bullets,coated bullets were three inches large,untill I used my new primers.[URL= ]a[/URL][URL= ]100yds,open sights,458WM[/URL]If they were uncoated,I am pretty sure it would be a one hole group.I used AA2230 powder.Dentist,try H4895 powder for the Lott and 500gr bullets.It is preffered by many.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Why would anyone want to shoot buffalo or any sort of dangerous game past 50 yds anyway???? What would be the point in that???? I would rather even be much closer-25 or less!
Michael

Michael,sometimes you can't have everything!

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
A big attraction for the Woodleighs for me is that the solid and softs are accurate and group well together. I've spent a lot of time trying to get solid-A to print with soft-B. I do not think Woodleigh softs handle high velocity well and over-expand.

I recently got a Lott. I am intrigued at using 550 gr. Woodleighs at about 2100 fps. The softs should be hell on buffalo and the solids penetrate well.

The 500gr Swift A-Frames are great for the Lott.They will tackle any task.My only complaint is that they are not round nosed for perfect feeding.I should call Swift bullets again and ask that they make a Swift solid.It was nice talking to the president,Mr Bill Hober,the last time I called.I told him about my buff hunt and how his bullet performed.He said"the swift A frame is the best big game hunting bullet in the world" Him just answering the phone says alot to me.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:

quote:

Originally posted by JohnDL:
A big attraction for the Woodleighs for me is that the solid and softs are accurate and group well together. I've spent a lot of time trying to get solid-A to print with soft-B. I do not think Woodleigh softs handle high velocity well and over-expand.

I recently got a Lott. I am intrigued at using 550 gr. Woodleighs at about 2100 fps. The softs should be hell on buffalo and the solids penetrate well.

The 500gr Swift A-Frames are great for the Lott.They will tackle any task.My only complaint is that they are not round nosed for perfect feeding.I should call Swift bullets again and ask that they make a Swift solid.It was nice talking to the president,Mr Bill Hober,the last time I called.I told him about my buff hunt and how his bullet performed.He said"the swift A frame is the best big game hunting bullet in the world" Him just answering the phone says alot to me.

shootaway, I must have missed your buff report. Please post pics of your safari and a full report.

John

JKS,you are slow.If you checked out the Hunt Reports forum you would have seen my report months ago.If you stay tuned,you might one day see a lion hunting report by me.I hope it doesn't take me years.Have you hunted africa? Where is your report?

quote:

Originally posted by JohnD

I recently got a Lott. I am intrigued at using 550 gr. Woodleighs at about 2100 fps. The softs should be hell on buffalo and the solids penetrate well.

I once asked Zim PH Mike Taylor which Woodleigh Bullets he would like me to bring over for him.
His request was the 550grn softs for his LOTT.
He later confirmed that on Buffalo, they hammer them big time..

quote:

Originally posted by Dentist:
Thanks for everybodys opinion.

Now my decision is to load 500 grains woodleigh solids at about 2200 fps and find an accurate load for my rifle.

Another load for 500grn bullets from a 458LOTT is "up to" 79grns of (ADI) AR2206H (H4895) for approx 2212fps, MV.
This Australian powder shows little effect from variable temperatures and is sold in the US as HODGDEN.