This is meant to be a thread that will discuss the plus/minuses of the existing expanding bullets for dangerous game.Which is the best expanding dangerous game bullet for dangerous game?Woodleigh bonded RN and PPCEB RaptorGS Custom expandingSwift A-FrameNorth Fork Bonded Soft PointTrophy Bonded Bear ClawNosler PartitionBarnes TSXA-Square Dead Tough

I have had very good luck with the north fork softs...

Chuck,

It really depends on what species of DG you are huntirg. I would select a completely different SN foe leopard than I would for buff.

465H&H

I voted TSX.
I took them in a 460 Weatherby for a Buff hunt in the Zambezi Delta. I did not shoot a buff but my PH used it in a hippo in the water. Went through the head and skipping down the river. I did shoot an eland with it as I had only used the 460 paper, went through the eland needless to say.
When sighting in the rifle the TSX would go through a 3' diameter dead/dry eucalyptus tree.

Mark

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Chuck,

It really depends on what species of DG you are huntirg. I would select a completely different SN foe leopard than I would for buff.

465H&H

Understand, I guess I'm thinking Cape Buffalo first, brown bear and lion (both more thin skinned than buffalo) second, but after seeing the wonderful thread on solids, thought we needed something to stimulate discussion on expanding bullets as well.

I would choose a TSX if using a high velocity cartridge and below.400 caliber.I would use a A-frame or heavy Woodleigh RN for slow velocity and larger than .400 chambering.I would consider the following factors,penetration,rapid expansion,feeding,flight stability.I voted for Woodleigh RN!

If you'd have asked me a couple of months ago I'd have said that my personal choice is TSX or A-Frame, but that the Woodleigh and Bear Claw are good bullets too, and that I've only heard good things about the North Fork and GS.

Today, after having seen what the Raptor does to a buffalo, I'm placing it one step above all those I've used or seen being used.

Well, I use Woodleighs, and have killed many, many buffalo and scrub bulls. I wouldn't say it is better than any of the others, it is just what I have good access to, and I support an Australian company. I bet I could walk out into my backyard and kill a good buffalo with any of those bullets, no problem.

CEB Raptor is devastating on everything we've used them on, from Roan to Cape Buff. Internal damage to organs is incredible.

They are on schedule for Leopard and Lion (in different weights); departing for the Zambezi Valley in 9 days.

Previously the Swift A-Frame was my soft of choice and is still a very good bullet.

This discussion is as useless as a discussion on which car is the best , a Ford , a Chevvie or perhaps a Dodge, useless unless of course the parameters of definition of "best" are defined and then very important, to subject each measurable parameter to the same conditions.

One could if dilligent compare projectile behaviours, what is impossible to compare is target response.

Death and incapacitation are biologic target responses ! linking them to projectile behaviours in a meaningful or valid manner is the holy grail of ballistics science. A exercise in statistical possibility or probability at best.

I just got done my water buffalo cull using Swift A-Frames, TSXs and CEBs in a hot loaded .458. I'll have to level with you, there might not be a dime's worth of difference between all of those, at least on buffalo.

CEB beats them all.. No matter thickskinned like buff or hippo or thinskinned like leopard or lion.. CEB non cons is my choice for everything... And I KNOW they will work perfect every time...

I guess "best" for me is reliable everytime expansion on thinner skinned game (brown bears and lion) coupled with expansion but not over expansion, penetration and weight retention on tougher game (cape buffalo).

What, no Hornady DGX? lol. I think that most of anything on that list will work in the right situation. That being said, I have always been partial to A-Frames.

quote:

What, no Hornady DGX? lol.

quote:

I think that most of anything on that list will work in the right situation.

True this!

quote:

Originally posted by thecanadian:
What, no Hornady DGX? lol. I think that most of anything on that list will work in the right situation. That being said, I have always been partial to A-Frames.

A friend of mine bought a 9mm Sig, I told him: "If I just want to make someone mad I'll insult them!" I feel the same way about the DGX ...

Barnes, baby, Barnes.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I just got done my water buffalo cull using Swift A-Frames, TSXs and CEBs in a hot loaded .458. I'll have to level with you, there might not be a dime's worth of difference between all of those, at least on buffalo.

Dogleg ; How did the 350 gr .458 TSX bullets work on buffalo. ?

IMO it would be pretty hard to distinguish what bullet was singularly The Best.
I ant even prove that the fast bullets kill better than the slow bullets. But I know that they don't kill any slower and they have a flatter trajectory and recoil less so I think over all they are the better bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Chuck,

It really depends on what species of DG you are huntirg. I would select a completely different SN foe leopard than I would for buff.

465H&H

I have heard this sort of argument before.

But, my own experience tells me otherwise.

I have used mono metal copper bullets with a hollow point, like the Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets on everything.

All plains game, buffalo, lions and leopards.

Never had any problem whatsoever.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I just got done my water buffalo cull using Swift A-Frames, TSXs and CEBs in a hot loaded .458. I'll have to level with you, there might not be a dime's worth of difference between all of those, at least on buffalo.

Did you examine the terminal performance? Most bullets will work but not all bullets perform the same.

The terminal performance that counts is how fast the animal hits the ground. Not a dimes worth of difference probly means just that. Just sayin.

I judge bullet performance by how dead the animal is, and how quickly it occurs, not by how cute the recovered bullet is.

All of the bullets on the list work, so do Hornady DGX.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I judge bullet performance by how dead the animal is, and how quickly it occurs, not by how cute the recovered bullet is.

All of the bullets on the list work, so do Hornady DGX.

What a novel thought.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I judge bullet performance by how dead the animal is, and how quickly it occurs, not by how cute the recovered bullet is.

All of the bullets on the list work, so do Hornady DGX.

I agree .

So much for the theory !

In the practice i shot the majority of my buffalos with my 460 WM rifle and the old 500gr SP bullet from Hornady . The rest sometimes with marginal SP bullets of cartridges like the 10,75x68 or 11,2x72 Schüler .

As ever the shot placement and the penetration are important !

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I judge bullet performance by how dead the animal is, and how quickly it occurs, not by how cute the recovered bullet is.

All of the bullets on the list work, so do Hornady DGX.

These are words of wisdom. With all the great choices we have today just find one that shoots well in your rifle and go hunting. I personally have shot DG with the SAF, TSX, TB, NF and NP. They all worked great. I do think a NP that has a frangible front portion is probably better for cats and bears than the mono-metals but if a client tells me he is taking his 375 or 416 as his only rifle and he is taking all TSX's I would not try to talk him out of it.

Mark

I guess that Rhino Bullets are inferiour because they did'nt make the list?

These discussions are always fun and kind of informative, but we all know that any decently constructed premium bullet works if put in the right place.

I've killed leopard with an A-Frame, buffalo with A-Frames, TSX's, sledgehammers, DGX's and DGS's, my one elephant with a DGS, and I'm headed to Tanz for lion and buff this year loaded with Partitions and NF CPS. I haven't shot anything with the North Forks yet but they have a great rep and I'm looking forward to seeing them in actual action.

I'm kind of promiscuous when it comes to bullets, but if I could have only one, I'd probably pick the Barnes.

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Chuck,

It really depends on what species of DG you are huntirg. I would select a completely different SN foe leopard than I would for buff.

465H&H

I have heard this sort of argument before.

But, my own experience tells me otherwise.

I have used mono metal copper bullets with a hollow point, like the Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets on everything.

All plains game, buffalo, lions and leopards.

Never had any problem whatsoever.

Saaed,

I don't think we have any disagreement between us. The question was "Which expanding bullet was the best for DG." In my opinion almost all of the listed bullets could be used for all species with satisfactory results. But to select the "Best", it would in my opinion depend on the species hunted and the conditions that they were hunted under.

465H&H

Yup, I think it was WaterRat that said when he started using X bullets. He wasn't able to recover his bullets anymore because they were thru and thru. And he didn't have to chase as much wounded animals. . I've never been able to recover an X or TSX from game because they all had 2 holes per bullet. Except my last caribou which I think the 250 gr X bullet was somewhere in the gut after removing 10" of the spine. And by removing, I mean just that. The biggest piece of it I could find was about 1/2" dia chunk. Straight on shot bullet entered center of the neck from 100 yards approx. Mv 2750 . Dia. 9.3 mm.
The guys I was with were Grossly Ignorant of the importance of recovered bullets.
But they had the boat. :+/.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
I judge bullet performance by how dead the animal is, and how quickly it occurs, not by how cute the recovered bullet is.

Agree Phil... And I don't like recovered bullets...

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:
Chuck,

It really depends on what species of DG you are huntirg. I would select a completely different SN foe leopard than I would for buff.

465H&H

I have heard this sort of argument before.

But, my own experience tells me otherwise.

I have used mono metal copper bullets with a hollow point, like the Barnes X and our own Walterhog bullets on everything.

All plains game, buffalo, lions and leopards.

Never had any problem whatsoever.

Saaed,

I don't think we have any disagreement between us. The question was "Which expanding bullet was the best for DG." In my opinion almost all of the listed bullets could be used for all species with satisfactory results. But to select the "Best", it would in my opinion depend on the species hunted and the conditions that they were hunted under.

465H&H

I have to agree with 465H&H here. Even a well placed solid will kill every time, but it isn't going to be optimal.

The "best" bullet depends on the target. It also depends on the rifle's bore and velocity.

JPK

JPK

I have shot deer with the TSX and have had fantastic results over the years.

Now my 416 Rigby shoots CEB 325gr Raptor, CEB 350 gr Solid & TSX 350g to same POI at 100 meters. First African safari - What more can I ask for?

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I have shot deer with the TSX and have had fantastic results over the years.

Now my 416 Rigby shoots CEB 325gr Raptor, CEB 350 gr Solid & TSX 350g to same POI at 100 meters. First African safari - What more can I ask for?

DRT animals

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
CEB beats them all.. No matter thickskinned like buff or hippo or thinskinned like leopard or lion.. CEB non cons is my choice for everything... And I KNOW they will work perfect every time...

I believe you but you will have to prove it to me on a big bear.

But at the velocities you are getting with them I bet they work superbly.

My current favorite in the 375 is the 270TSX but I have had great luck with Partitions, Swifts and North Forks as well

quote:

Originally posted by Nakihunter:
I have shot deer with the TSX and have had fantastic results over the years.

Now my 416 Rigby shoots CEB 325gr Raptor, CEB 350 gr Solid & TSX 350g to same POI at 100 meters. First African safari - What more can I ask for?

Having the correct one in the chamber when needed!

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
CEB beats them all.. No matter thickskinned like buff or hippo or thinskinned like leopard or lion.. CEB non cons is my choice for everything... And I KNOW they will work perfect every time...

I believe you but you will have to prove it to me on a big bear.

But at the velocities you are getting with them I bet they work superbly.

My current favorite in the 375 is the 270TSX but I have had great luck with Partitions, Swifts and North Forks as well

I promise you I will....

They are all good bullets and will work when fired thru the boiler room.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:

quote:

Originally posted by buffalo:
CEB beats them all.. No matter thickskinned like buff or hippo or thinskinned like leopard or lion.. CEB non cons is my choice for everything... And I KNOW they will work perfect every time...

I believe you but you will have to prove it to me on a big bear.

But at the velocities you are getting with them I bet they work superbly.

My current favorite in the 375 is the 270TSX but I have had great luck with Partitions, Swifts and North Forks as well

Phil.. -Just played with the 300 grs ESP Raptors in my 458 AccRel... getting velocities from 2900 to 3020 fps in my 21" barrel... Not bad..
I bet they will get the attention of a big brown bear...
Will test accuracy on Sunday..

Thought I'd bump this thread up to see if the voting changes a couple years later?