quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Maybe I'm just stupid but what is the big deal about the Rebated Rim.
Will someone please tell me. I'm serious I really dont know.

Supposed feeding problems. Or susceptibility to feeding problems. Some cartridges with rebated rims, such as the .500 Jeffery, are notoriously difficult to get to feed properly.

The bolt face can miss the rim on the forward stroke, catch on the overhanging case or just swipe at the air. Misfeeds or non-feeds result.

Jarrod,

It means the bolt head can miss the case rim and the bolt tries to force the case forward by pushing on the extractor groove or the sold head part of the case in front of the rim which results in a jam.

In short, when all else is equal the rifle will be as relaible a feeder and a cartridge that does not have a rebated rim.

Magazines that are verticial stack or in line feed greatly relieve the problem.

Mike

quote:

Originally posted by Mike378:

Magazines that are verticial stack or in line feed greatly relieve the problem.

Mike

There are 2 other recognized solution to the problem as well:

a. Use a good gunsmith who knows how to get rebated rims to feed in a CRF
rifle, and

b. Use a cartridge without a rebated rim (like the 375 H&H instead of the 375 RUM).

500,

You continue to sell me on easy Wby road.

By the way I will back a done a Wby Safari (that is no dollars used for inlays and engraving) against a Johannsen.

This whole business of having to go to gunmiths with epensive rifles is very tiring.

I assume the Johannsen has the small 223 size recoil lug and the worlds tiniest tang.

As I have said before nothing looks better than a CRF feeding cartrides in the lounge room. Equally nothing looks less attractive than in line feed workin in the lounge room.

But I will give you Mauser fans full marks for persistence.


The Mauser with these bit cases sorto seems like a Ferrari...the enh=joyment comes form tyring to get then to work nd find finding the bes gunsmiths. Kind of like a separate hobby.

Mike

.

Mike,

Your premise is that all Mausers are defectively manufactured and will therefore jam, while all Weatherbys will operate perfectly. Yet that is not the case at all.

While it costs more to get a proper Mauser these days than a Weatherby, it is worth it if you have the money. Most guys have much more than the cost of a Johannsen invested in multiple junk guns. Just sell all the junk guns and get a Johannsen. You will not look back.

RIP,

You are right I have not had a Johannsen in my hands but I am sure they are very good rifle and probably would be my pick of the mausers.

My choice of Wby over Johannsen is not based on price. I can assure you that Wby goes very high in numbers. The pre packaged custom rifles are the low end.

As I have aid to 500 Grains before I like all the rifles that are good examples.

Mauser annoys me a bit by having no tang size, moving the recoil lug back etc.

I also like the rifle maker having their own calibres. But that is just a case of what you like rather than being based on physical attributes.

It is a good thing that many of us disagree otherwise the forum would be dead I also like to think that other shooters who lurk gain something from these discussions.

Mike

Dan,

I think a top Wby will probably set you back more than a Johannsen.

I have not said that as some form of competition but just to make the point that price is not deciding the choice.

My point is that a Wby will function with the big cartridges becasue of basic design.

I don't have the slightest doubt in the world that a Johannnsen would be spot on.

BUT, the Wby will fucntion well from the base models in 378 t0 460(Deluxe) and the standard Safari and DGR.

If I had the money to spend I would have the lot.

I would really like to have Johnannsen in 300 H&H and 375 H&H.

Mike

.

Alf,

Do the Johannsens have the recoil lug moved back and the super small tang.

Mausers to me look like someone took the M70 and said...how can we fuck up the bedding configuration?..

Does the Johannsen have the very small recoil lug?

Mike

Alf,

If Granite qualifies I think they are only $4500US as a barreled action with integral quarter rib.

Or are Granite a bad example to use.

Mike

[QUOTE]Originally posted by RIP:
Mike378,
Right, the pressures that George is quoting are wrong or home cooked.

On a serious not. A lot of these cartridges that have come along in the last 6-7 yrs,are like the new R&R bands. You wont hear of them in 40 years...On a sad note, most of what George comes up with is not actually experienced,but homecooked. Go easy on him boys.

quote:

A lot of these cartridges that have come along in the last 6-7 yrs,are like the new R&R bands. You wont hear of them in 40 years

Charger,

I think there is some truth in what you say and simply because most of the gaps have been filled.

For example, if we use the 375 bore size as an example. While I have defended the 375 Ultra I don't own one and probably never will. The reason is called the 378 Wby.

I also thin that one of the problems with calibres like the RUMs is the prices for rifles and components is not high enough to make them viable with small sales. A similar situation is seen with the 36 Whelen and 375 H&H. The 375 will simply bear bigger prices on rifles and components but the 35 Whelen will only bear 30/06 type pricing.

But all these discussions are for fun and hearing different opinions and ideas.

By the way one cartridge that did come out in the last 6 or 7 years that will be here for much longer is the 30/378. But at the prices it does not need to sell many to remain viable. In adition it is Wbys Number 1 calibre for the Accumarks that come out of the custom shop. In short it is a high profit item.

Mike

I think the biggest problem with the 375 RUM is the "RUM", more spefically the "R".

It doesn't really matter (at least to me and many of us) what type of performance it has, because I'm not toting around a rifle that has the "R" word stamped anywhere on the barrel or receiver...

quote:

Originally posted by charger:
On a sad note, most of what George comes up with is not actually experienced,but homecooked. Go easy on him boys.

Like when you claimed to have gone on safari? Or when you claimed to have been incarcerated after running afoul of the Dubai authorities while flying with firearms?

FYI, dickwad, the data I posted are published by Hodgdon, and therefore have much more weight than any of the bullshit you have posted.

George

quote:

Originally posted by interboat:
What you're missing is that the 375 RUM was invented by some snot-nose in the marketing department who couldn't show you Africa on a world globe. The cartridge has no history, does not offer anything that hasn't been readily available for almost a hundred years, and looks funny. Its only purpose is to sell more Remington rifles, which is an obvious disservice to mankind in general.

The .375 Ultra Mag is rebated????

It sure isn't "rebated" the way TRUE rebated cartridges, like the .284 and .425 WR, are "rebated".

I've been using the .375 UM brass to make perfectly functional .404s for my C&H Mauser. In spite of some other reports and opinions here, I again will state that the cases work PERFECTLY, in both the forming of the cases and in the performance of the ammunition, including flawless feeding in my rifle.

I measured some brand-new .375 UM cases today, and found that the base diameter (just ahead of the extractor groove) is .543". The diameter of the head itself is .532". That amounts to a whole screaming difference of nine one-thousandths of an inch. A sheet of normal cheapo computer printer paper, also measured today, is .0035" thick, which means that this so-called "rebate" amounts to less than three thicknesses of paper!

In my Mauser, the face of the bolt first engages about .130" of the head diameter of the .404-based cartridge in the magazine, on the forward stroke of the bolt. This means that using .375 UM cases reduces this bolt contact with the cartridge head by a whole .005" or thereabouts, compared with the Kynoch .404 case with head diameter of .540".

Consider that the .284 Winchester is a true "rebated case" and its head size is fully .027" less than its body diameter. The .425 WR is a good bit more rebated than this, I believe, although I couldn't find a reference for the actual measurement.

The .375 UM had its head diameter reduced from the .404 standard size just so that it would fit into a regular H&H-size bolt face, which makes sense from a rifle manufacturer's point of view. It's purely serendipity that the brass works so well in the .404, but I'm mighty glad that it does. My .404 has seen a lot more shooting since I haven't had to worry about conserving the rarer .404 brass.

BruceB

A mate of mine has 3 RUMs, 2 X 300 and 1 X 7mm

RUMs are not my choice as I like the 378 case. BUT that has nothing to do with with the RUM case. I just have Chev Corvette mentality

Actually the Wby Mark V action makes every case whether it be a 30/06, 300 Wby or 378 Wby a rebated case.

If I was to post on this forum that I was gettin a 425 WR or 500 Jeffery made I would receive big support!!!

In my opinion the RUMs are great because they fit the standard actions.

My mate has no feeding problems from his RUMs. As far as field use goes it might only be kangaroos but the number of shots fired in one hour will exceed Africa for a 2 week trip, the heat is much bigger because the shooting is in summer and the rifles are working under conditions of chasing roos in the truck.

Having said all of that the RUMs could only be better if the rim was not rebated by the thickness of an ant's pubic hair

You could take 30 thou of the RUM case rim and it would still work because the rounds pop up a long way in Rem box. CRF is a bit different and they are for purists that are nor interested in actual function.

By the way, the HS Precision magazine could deal with the 425 WR. Out of one of my mates rifles it will feed perfectly both 300 RUM and 264.

I think it was the 1963 Gun Digest that the 300 Win was written up as a "thunder and lighting cartridge" and thye included reduced loads.

The 300 Wby in the early 60s reads about the same as the 30/378 now reads.

Mike