Hi I am new to this site and have a few questions about a new big bore rifle I am planning on building. First off the rifle will be used primarily for bears including those in Alaska and maybe a trip to Africa in the future. I am left handed and want it weather resistant thus stainless steel with synthetic stock. I have heard to go with CFR and was wondering what left handed stainless actions you recommend. As far as caliber goes I am thinking about a 375HH, various 416s or maybe a 458 of some sort. What is the recoil difference between these different calibers. I am leaning towards a 416rem, rigby, or wby. I want to keep price below $5000 and am open to any advice or opinions on anything incuding action,barrel,stock, and gunsmith to do the work.

You have picked the right forum to ask. There are more knowledgable folks here than any where else.

I'm not an Alaskan hunter (yet), so I must defer to those who have, but you need to be more specific to your needs. There will be many replies as to what so & so has and used, but to get to what you need, you need to give more specs on what you want to accomplish (i.e. brown, griz, inland, coastal, avg. distance, % of game hunted, mountains, plains ...

If Africa, then plains game or dangerous game. Recoil tolerance, i.e. what have you shot before and how did you do.

Fellow posters will fill in the blanks.

Ak.Personaly ,I dont think you can go past the 375 H&H but failing that if you settle on the .416 I'd go for the tried & tested rigby every time.Sorry to say I'm not up to Gunsmiths in the states.Also here in aust the bloke I wish I could recomend has retired

Welcome to the forums, AK...

as for lefies, i just don't know, but with your price range, I think that you can do this easy.

I am assuming you haven't shot anything over .375 before, just because, and that this will be your first custom...

i'll also assume stainless (yuck) is going to stay on your rifle

So, with that being said, here's what ole jeffe would do in your shoes

Pick up a ruger stainless in 270 or 30-06
http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firearms/FAProdView?model=7992&return=Y
(700)

order some NECG stainless sights and barrel band

http://www.newenglandcustomgun.com/
(300)

send it to pacnor for rebarrel to 376 steyr
http://www.pac-nor.com
475

find a stock blank you like.. and have it turned
(250 (very low end) to 2500)
750ISH

New pad, trigger, bedding...
200

various gunsmithing
500


So, 3000 bucks...

and the ruger will hold a HANDFUL of 376 steyrs

jeffe

I will second the .376 Steyr The same balistics as 375H&H in a short fat package, 300g @2425fps is hell on black bears & moose
Good luck with your project!!

Thanks for the replies. The gun will be used for coastal brown bear and the biggest gun I have is a 7mm RUM in a Sako 75. Recoil is not that bad at all and it is a great long range gun for moose and elk. I have also shot a full powered handload 250gr. from a 340wby. in a Mark V synthetic rifle and again I thought the recoil was very managable. Not much more than my 7rum. I want my new rifle to be used for close up work on dangerous game. I have been told to shoot the biggest gun I can shoot accurately and with control. I haven't got into handloading yet so is 376 steyr ammo fairly easy to find? The reason I like the 416's is because they shoot almost as flat as a 375HH but produce about a thousand ft-lbs more energy. Is this energy even needed or is it good to have for that just in case situation? I really like the Winchester M70 custom African express in LH but can I make it more weatherproof and still not ruin its great looks? How does the recoil of a 416 rem/rigby compare to the 340 250gr. I shot. I know the 416 will hopefully be a pound or two heavier in weight so maybe that will help. Also just out of curiosity, have any of you heard if Bp-Tec muzzle brakes really work. They claim they have 0 increase in noise but reduce recoil by 35%. www.bp-tec.com

AK,
I just got through building a rifle very similar to what you’re describing and am very pleased with the results. I used a Montana 1999 action. I was very impressed with the quality of their actions for the price. I then sent the action to Krieger barrels for a #6 stainless barrel. They make great barrels and are very easy to work with. They installed the barrel, squared the receiver and bolt face, lapped lugs, etc. The stock I put on it was a legend stock from D’Arcy Echols. He designed a stock that is made by McMillan out of fiberglass. The knowledgeable folks on this forum told me this was one of the best big-bore stocks ever designed and I have found that to be the case. You can only order a legend stock directly from Mr. Echols. When I received the stock (still a blank), I package it and the barreled receiver up and sent it back to McMillan, which is what Mr. Echols recommended. They finish the stock (paint, recoil pad, cut to your LOP, etc.) and pillar and glass bed the action. It comes back looking really good. You might want to add a timney trigger. Total price is around $1900 and it’s very fun to get to pick your options and make the gun exactly like you want. Good Luck, Clint

www.montanarifleman.com/actions.htm
www.kriegerbarrels.com
www.mcmfamily.com
D’Arcy Echols (435) 755-6842

quote:

Originally posted by Accuracykills:
I have been told to shoot the biggest gun I can shoot accurately and with control. I haven't got into handloading yet so is 376 steyr ammo fairly easy to find?

How does the recoil of a 416 rem/rigby compare to the 340 250gr. I shot.

Also just out of curiosity, have any of you heard if Bp-Tec muzzle brakes really work. They claim they have 0 increase in noise but reduce recoil by 35%. www.bp-tec.com

Yes, shoot the biggest you can train with

you WILL be reloading.. this is a fact... 46 rem is about 100 a box, delivered.. i am NOT joking. a reloading setup will set you back about 3 boxs of shells...

add 50 pieces of brass, and that you can load it 5 times, at least, you are about 300 rounds ahead the first week.

416 to 340? DOUBLE

Brakes and Africa... (any) CLinton and the GOP...

bad bad bad...

and that a brake has ZERO ncrease in noise.. that's BS... you are turning sound 90degrees, blasting it outward...

yeah, but bet the sound level in FRONT of the gun has no change compared to the SIDE of the gun (before/after the brake) but YOU and the PH heare what's on the side far more.


416's rock.. just more trouble

jeffe

The 416 Rem is the hands down best all around caliber in the modern world IMO, albiet I think I like the 404 better, but thats probabl Nostalgia...

With the 416 you have a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS and that will lay low anything on this planet, then you have a 350 gr. bullet that will do the same and also make a fine flat shooting ( 30-06 trajectory )game rifle...then you might even like a 300 or 325 gr. monolithic at 3000 or so FPS...Those figures are pretty hard to beat....

To a knowledgable hunter, those figures make a 375 pale by comparison with the exception of recoil..personally I see little difference in the recoil of a 375 and a 416...both are very managable with practice. Not so when you go to bigger bores.

Thanks again for all the help. If I do decide to go with a 416 and start reloading then which one (rem,rigby,weatherby). From what I understand the rigby and weatherby can be loaded down to the remington or even be pushed faster. Is the weatherby brass more available and better quality? What are my action choices for these large calibers? I think Dakota makes a LH stainless action but it is over $2,000. That 1999 Montana professional hunter action looks really nice and is $525.

This is what I'd do in your shoes...

First, buy one of these in .375 H&H...Win Mod 70 Classic Stainless



I'd shoot it a bit, and see how I like it. If I was pleased with the 375, I'd just spend a few bucks on some embellishments (custom stock, fancy scope, whatever).

If I decided that the 375 was lame and I wanted to try a 416 or 458, I'd just get a new barrel chambered for it, and have it set up as a switch barrel. That way, if I found out the 416 or 458 was too much, I could go back anytime.

Since you don't reload, I'd stick with 416 Rem Mag and 458 Lott as my options for the bigger end.

Anyhoo, that'd be the cheapest and quickest way to get started, and you'd have yourself a great platform upon which to build a nice custom rifle if you still wanted to.

Cheers,
Canuck

quote:

Originally posted by Accuracykills:
Thanks again for all the help. If I do decide to go with a 416 and start reloading then which one (rem,rigby,weatherby). From what I understand the rigby and weatherby can be loaded down to the remington or even be pushed faster. Is the weatherby brass more available and better quality? What are my action choices for these large calibers? I think Dakota makes a LH stainless action but it is over $2,000. That 1999 Montana professional hunter action looks really nice and is $525.

The Rigby and Weatherby and great cartridges with lots of flexibility for loading up or down, but they require a large action. Your basically looking at a CZ 550 or Ruger MII Magnum for a quick easy donor action.

The 1999 Montana PH action is still a long ways from production. I do encourage you to sign up for one though...the more the merrier and the sooner they might start making them!!

The 416 Rem Mag will fit into any commercial 375 length action, so it gives you a lot more options.

Cheers,
Canuck

Canuck is sending you in the right direction. For some people the 375 represents the recoil max, for many others the 416 certainly is.

The 375 HH will take any animal in the world with no problem. It will do the job on the largest brown bear out there. The 416 is a great round, but is really meant to be an elephant stopper.

You don't say where you are located in the states. If it is in the midwest, then you might want to talk to Harry McGowen. McGowen Rifle Barrels, 5961 Spruce Lane, St. Anne, IL 60964 (815) 937-9816. Harry has done a number of rifles for me over the years. He is capable of doing the switch barrel if you want to go that way.

You may be thinking that a synthetic stock is the way to go. But there is something to said for a laminated stock in these calibers. The added weight helps with the recoil as does a removable muzzle break.

Thanks, that Winchester 70 would be a good economical way to try a 375HH but I wish they made it left hand. I know a lot of you are probably CRF fans but would a Weatherby Mark V action be a decent platform for the rigby or weatherby? What is your opinion on buying a LH Weatherby Accumark in 338-378 and rebarreling to 416 weatherby? Is this possible?

ray's advice is quite sound...the 416 Rem makes sense, since it has all the power you will EVER need, feeds well, has the least expensive brass and falls into the "heavy recoil" category instead of the "brutal" category. It is the most efficient of the 3 rounds you are considering with a good expansion ratio that matches the 308 Win. R15 is the only powder you will need from 300 to 400 grain bullets, and it is still very consistent with reduced loads. The tough 350 gr Speer can be cut back to 2500 fps with only 78 grs of R15 and will kick like a 375 H&H is you add only 2 lbs to the weight of your rifle. even at this level, it is essentially overpowered for brown bear and will behave nicely at 42,000 CUP. A sectional density of .289 and 4900 FPE will anchor the beast even if you are a bit off the mark and kill outright with a good shot on a bad angle. If you want to go with a 22 inch bbl, just add 1 grain of powder and the stats are the same raising pressure to only 45,000 CUP.

I'd use 375 just because in alaska you shoot everything with a 375 and you can get ammo anywhere and it always does just what you think it should. I've taken both griz and browns with 375 using 300 gr nosler part. no problems at all. also remember that unless you're inland in alsaka there is salt water and airplanes. Thus your gun is going to get into salt water. stainless is nice them Otherwise it's likely to get tied to the supercub struts and flown out to spike camp. also stainless is nice. that said, my 375's have all been nice walnut and blued & if taken care of are fine.

Thanks for that information on the 416 remington. What do you think about a blueprinted stainless winchester model 70 pre 64 LH action with a (shilen,krieger,lilja) stainless barrel. What contour and length of barrel should I get? Does Mcmillan make a synthetic left hand safari style stock? I would like the gun with scope to weigh 10 or 11 lbs. Is this a good weight for a 416 rem?

AK,

Looks like I was sending you in the RIGHT direction, but you need to go LEFT. Missed that in your original post. Gotta quit skimming!

You could still follow my logic, but use one of these instead...
Win M70 Safari Express LH



Get the metal teflon coated, swap the wood for synthetic and your in business.

Your Pre64 lefty starting point is a good one too. I haven't got all the manufacturers contours memorized, but I can recommend the #5 contour Douglas as that is what I have on my 416 Taylor. I believe the #5 PacNor is the same profile, but its been a while since I looked at it.

The barrel lenght on my Taylor is 23". It balances perfectly and is short enough to handle nicely in confined spots.

I would recommend the 12" twist if you can get the option with the barrel mfg'r that you chose.

9.5 or 10 pounds fully dressed and loaded is more than enough for a 416. Mine weighs in under 9 lbs.


Cheers,
Canuck

Do you know where I can get just the winchester action and then start building from there? Too bad Winchester just won't sell me one. Is this possible or highly unlikely? I also noticed Browning makes a left hand stainless A-Bolt in .375 HH. This would be a relatively cheap way to try a .375 and then I could rebarrel to 416 if I want(if possible). Is this a good idea or should I just stay away from the a-bolt?

Here's a suggestion from another lefty. I have a Rem700 in .375H&H and a Ruger 77MKII in .416Taylor, as background. My gunsmith, Rich Riley in Colorado Springs, has a wildcat using .404 Jeffery brass trimmed and necked to .416 caliber. This uses the original .404 shoulder, case just shortened enough to work through standard actions. Pretty hefty in performance. He can also lengthen the 77MKII to handle longer cases. Look up High Tech Custom Rifles on your search engine for his address and work quality.

Accuracykills

I think Weatherby is only available as LH via their Product Upgrade and the difference in price between a 338/378 and 416 won't be much when done via Product Upgrade. However, rifles made via Product Upgrade are more expensive and if the situation in the US of A is the same as Australia, then Wby do not give the dealer or their agent the same discount off recommened retail as a "catologued" rifle.

As to CRF , I sometimes think the big Wbys, that is, 30/378 through to 460, are the most CRF of all rifles because of their vertical stack in line feed. The cartridge is really "controlled" when being fed.

But it would be difficult to recommend a 416 Wby to someone who is not a reloader and who is new to big bores. Factory ammo is very expensive, recoil is still heavy with the muzzle brake on and ferocious when it is removed.

But if you want big power and 40 calibre and flat trajectory and LH then the 416 Wby is your baby

If you did reload, apart from loading down they will with full power loads quite easily do 2900 f/s with 350 grain bullets.

You said your budget is up to $5000 then another one is Dakota for LH in the 375 class but they are a few hundred more for the 416 Rigby. They also sell actions and barreled actions.

Mike