My 1st. post on the big bore forum. In contemplation of a cape buff hunt in 2010, which of the 2 cal. should my son consider for the up coming hunt[he's 26 yrs. old]? He's hunted with me since he was 10 yrs. old. He's killed black bear, deer, been on 1 plains game safari, and leaves in 2wks. for a cat hunt in Arizona. He doesn't reload and isn't a "gun nut" like the ole man . So the .375 ruger, or .375 H&H? I might add that he has killed everything, in his life so far with a single shot rifle/shotgun. Don't know if I can talk him into a bolt action or not. If not, it'll be a Ruger no. 1. I guess I'm leaning to the .375 H&H, but thought I'd ask you guys.

Mad Dog

I have not had the chance to shoot a 375 Ruger yet but as far as ammo availability in Africa I would go with the 375 H&H. In case your bag with your ammo does not show up the 375 H&H ammo is readily available but the 375 Ruger is not.

Most definentely the .375 Holland & Holland!
The .375 ruger is soon forgotten just like the WSM.s and the RUM.s

The H&H is time test, proven and well established

Other than a cz, who is adding the 375 ruger to their lineup, you can't buy a new crf 375 for DOUBLE what the 375 ruger goes for.

like the WSM/RUMs, lesson? Not to be too hard on the fact, but there's rum and wsm cases available at EVERY walmart... i have yet to see a 375HH there ... seems like, what is it, 9 years in less than 10 days, the WSM might just catch on.

People like choices... and even the NEW winchester model 70 is available in WSM TODAY, with no 375 in sight.. Just might be a lesson there

Now, let's talk about ammo in africa...
I have ONE simple question
if you have ever been to africa, have you lost your ammo ONLY and HAD to buy replacement?

If he uses a Ruger #1 maybe the 450/400 might be a good choice with Hornady making ammo now.

Fred

I like the Ruger .450/.400 idea, too, if he's going single shot. I don't like the dinky iron sights though. If you beg well, Ruger will sell you the type on the Bodington model and you won't have to worry about the rear folding down exactly when you need it.

Otherwise, I'd just buy a CZ .375 H&H with American stock and get it bedded well. Quality ammo is available from Cabelas, Cheaper Than Dirt, Sportsmans Guide, etc., if not in your local gun store. You can choose about any style bullet, too. Swift A-Frames and Barnes TSX's are pretty hard to beat on buffalo. Add Talley QD rings and a Leopold 1.5-5x scope and his PH will think him perfectly prepared equipment wise. The CZ will hold a zillion rounds in the chamber, btw.

Not trying to be contrary, but your son doesn't HAVE to buy a new rifle just for 1 buff hunt. I'm sure the PH has suitable loaners and ammo.

onefunzer, agreed, but I don't want him hunting with a rifle he hasn't practiced with, and where I live nobody has a .375 to practice with. Besides, the boy makes 3x what I do, and when I get too old/run out of money, [ which could be any day now] , I think I've instilled in the boy the "love of the hunt". I think he will make several trips back to Africa. He doesn't post on any of the hunting forums, so he doesn't know anything about the "proper" rifle or bullets, he just takes what the ole man tells him to take, and goes out and kills somethin . For instance, he took a NEF handi rifle to RSA, last summer and made 7 1 shot kills with a .30-06 and 180 gr. nosler part. in Federal factory loads. So we will see, but I think the .375 H&H is the way to go, and he can use it on future hunts. He still may decide on the ruger no.1 though.

Mad Dog

I have a 375 H&H Magnum and love its power and accuracy. It's a classic and ammo will be available all over Africa for it if needed. That said, on my two trips there, neither my guns nor my ammo has been lost.

As far as the pundits who think the 375 Ruger won't last; I think they're wrong. Case life has got to be better than the long tapered 375 H&H Mag. case and the rifles chambered for it are certainly cheaper. It also has just a little more power than the 375 H&H Mag. I suspect it won't be that many years before you'll be able to find 375 Ruger ammo commonly available in Africa.

Always the classic: H&H

You will find the amo anwhere, for any new cartridges, there is only little luck...

.375 H&H for one reason: ammo availability in Africa.

H&H. Almost 100 years of continuous use proves it's efficacy. I love mine, and shoot it more than all my other rifles combined. Reloading is easy, if he decides to go that route. For buffalo, the Swift A Frame and the Barnes TSX can't be beaten. Pick whatever shoots best in the rifle and go for it.

I wouldn't really reccommend a single shot for buffalo, though, although some do use it. He may need to make quick multiple shots if the first one isn't right on the money, and maybe even if it is.

In my rifle, the 300 and 350 grain loads are more accurate, followed by the 270 grain round nose.

One must give credit to the intrepid British gun trade from 1870-1930 for the various cartridges and guns used for safari hunting whether it be in Africa, Asia, or India. However one must also acknowledge that their weapons use on safari had very much to do with the breadth of the British Empire and were typically produced for the wealthy (or military officers). One cannot say that any of these British trade guns, or cartridges, was readily available to the commoner.

At least in Africa prior to WWII, the .375 H&H (.375 BRNE) competed against the 9,3x62mm Mauser or 9.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer cartridges. Rifles for the Mauser and M-S cartridges were much cheaper in cost than the British trade guns and therefore readily available to hunters of all economic strata resulting in their being much more popular than the .375 H&H for general use in Africa.

Also the greatest issue with all cartridges during this era when used against DG was definitely the sporadic poor performing bullets used by the cartridge manufacturers - bullets that failed to penetrate and/or would perhaps “disintegrate” (come apart) upon impact. The various 40+ caliber European and British cartridges and guns were much more popular for use against the largest DG as the early .375 H&H Kynoch DG solid bullets had a reputation for both poor penetration and disintegrating when used against elephant, hippo, and rhino.

Perhaps when denigrating the various short magnum cartridges and the .375 Ruger cartridges for their lack of multi-source of ammunition loading one needs some prospective - here an extract regarding the .375 H&H extracted from an African Hunter’s Guild article:
“In 1912, Holland & Holland introduced both the .375 Belted Rimless Magnum Nitro Express cartridge, mainly for use on bolt-action rifles, and the .375 Flanged Magnum Nitro Express cartridge for use in single shot and double -barrelled rifles. Bullet weights for the 3' rimless cartridge were soon standardised at 235, 270 and 300g, and 270 and 300g for the slightly shorter flanged cartridge, all ideally suited for a wide range of African and North American big game. By 1925, the belted rimless cartridge was made by the Western Cartridge Company in the USA and 70 years later is manufactured by leading 'bullet' names such as Federal, Winchester, Remington, RWS and Norma.”
Perhaps the second greatest boost the .375 H&H cartridge received was when Winchester manufactured its M70 CRF rifle in 1937 in this cartridge.

So in recap we have a cartridge chambered by H&H, and perhaps a few other British gun trade firms, and loaded by Kynoch for its first 13-years. Then Western loads ammunition in 1925 and Winchester manufactures rifles in 1937 (25-years later). I’m not sure but I don’t believe DWM or RWS manufactured .375 H&H ammunition or that Mauser, DWM, or one of the other M98 German gun trade manufacturers typically produced rifles in this caliber in the early 20th century.

The .375 Ruger, the various RCMs, and the upcoming .416 Ruger - are they good? From my prospective yes they are, they take full advantage of the powders currently available to the manufacturer and handloader just as did the .375 H&H was designed to take full advantage of the cordite powder dominating British use back in 1912. But they’re new and only time will tell just how successful they’ll be. Guess we can check back in 96 years and see if they have staying power.

From my prospective, Jamison has perhaps killed the RSUM and WSM due to his ill-granted patent. Perhaps he’ll wise up one day and gratis release his patent to the trade.

375 H&H or Ruger if he's going bolt action. Your factory choices are either a 375 Ruger from Ruger, Howa or CZ (in 2009) or the H&H from Ruger (RSM) CZ550 or Rem 798. A lot of the big bore guys here suggest sending CZ's to AHR for their improvement package. The 798 would need some slicking up too. If he wants to stick to his single shot, the Ruger #1 is available in 9.3x74R and 450/400 NE. I'd opt for the NE personally, little bit more punch and its just as much a classic.

Or an Interarms Mark X Whitworth if you can find one in the classifeds or on an auction

I own both and see little difference. I believe either would work quite well in Africa.

Last year in Zimbabwe my luggage was lost and my ammo with it. Mokore Safari had ammo on hand for my H&H and I was able to hunt with the rifle I brought. I'm fairly sure there was no .375 Ruger ammo in camp.

Next August I'll be returning to hunt with them again and I'm just not sure I want to take the Ruger due to ammo availability. If Gary Duckworth can assure me he'll have some around I may well take it, otherwise I'll stick with the H&H.

Impossible to beat the H+H and you will be able to get ammo if you need to. I would buy a Ruger rifle in either the #1 or the 77.

I have used both the H&H and the Ruger 375. I really like the African Hawkeye rifle, it just feels good. I took two animals in RSA this year with mine and had typically good 375 results using Barnes XXX bullets. I predict it will do well, but the ammo availability is an issue overseas.

My recomendation, is to let the rifle choose for him.
I mean go rifle shopping, if he finds a rifle he likes in a suitable chambering , thats the one I would pick.
Are you sold on a .375 ?
Nothing wrong with them but a 416 or .458 will work too.
A rifle he likes. If you want to spend the money , have a look at AHR. One of those beauties would be hard not to love !
...tj3006

I know there is at least one spare box of .375 Ruger in Namibia. I left one with my ph!

It will never end

It's that time of year..again

Handle the Ruger No. in both .375 H&H and .375 Ruger. I believe the .375 Ruger has a shorter barrel, 22". Go with the one the feels better.

Also take a look at the Ruger RSM. Beautiful rifle! Other option is search for a Winchester M70 Classic in .375 H&H or .416 Remington.

Both are equals in the power and trajectory. Just have him pick the rifle that feels the best to him. yeah there is most likely more 375 h&h ammo in africa, but just make sure you send ammo multipul ways.

Blondes or Redheads....???

I like both of them

That said, for Africa...the 375 H&H.

For us lefty's its the 375 Ruger!!!!!

Surely the 2 guns compare well. I would rather ponder the question as to what bullets should be used? We have a local ammo manufacturer that supplies a 265gr Flat nose Mono Hollow Point (GSC). Load it up to 3400 vps for a not more than 3 inch drop in 200 meters and see if you can retrieve the point in the buffalo!

375 H&H, there is no substitute, only wannabes.



Next!

I have two 375 H&Hs and a Ruger .375. All Left hand bolt guns. Browning, Blaser R84 and a LH Hawkeye stainless laminated. I don't think there is a hill of beans difference in performance of the cartridges. The Ruger is more ergonomic so I'm going to sell the other two. I'll take my chances with the Ruger.

Vol717,

Where did you get the Laminated stock for the Ruger; After market or via Ruger?

Well, I've spent the last 2 wks. doing a lot of reading, both here and on other forums. My thoughts at this stage have gone 180 degrees. Now, I'm leaning to the 375 ruger, in either a no. 1 or a hawkeye african. Reason's are price of the gun, and price of the ammo. I'm not that worried about losing the ammo, and besides by 2010/11, based on the number of reports of people taking the ruger over there, I think the ammo issue won't be as big a problem, as it MAY be at the present.

Mad Dog