The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores .416 TaylorGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Several years ago I built a .416 Taylor on a Mod. 70 action. I like the gun. It's a MOA gun and it's not brutal to shoot. It has very simular ballistics to the .416 Rem Mag. I use the .416 Rem. load data and get the predicted results. I would love to take it to Africa for Buff but haven't because it is hard to find brass with the proper head stamp, as I understand is required. I have never had my ammo checked, just weighed. Any thoughts on the Taylor and the ammo headstamp.....TAP SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | ||
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www.midwayusa.com had taylor brass as does quality cartridge and www.grafs.com | |||
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I have tried some of the brass from Midway and it is too soft. It locks up the action once it's fired. I never had that problem with any .458 brass I formed. I haven't tried graf & sons, yet. Jamison made a run of it but it is too soft also. Thanks for the info. SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I have great success with the Qualcart brass from Midway. 2400 fps with 400gr Swift A frames and no pressure signs whatsoever. Cheers Canuck | |||
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public safety annoucement .. one can NOT interchange load data with a 416 rem with a 416 taylor. other than that, you can great results with a taylor and qualcart or www.custombrassandbullets.com can provide you with headstamped brass opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Jeffeosso is correct you can't interchange the data. The Taylor case is smaller and max Rem loads would cause too much compression. I used the low end of the Rem data and worked up. I haven't seen any over-pressure signs and once I got the Taylor to 2400 fps with 400 gr. Hornady I stopped. My reamer has a long throat which also helps........TAP SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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the taylor is a fantastic round opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Might have bit less case capacity, the reason it is sticking is too much pressure in the round. Need to back it off a bit. John | |||
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I use ken waters load data for the [2] 416 taylors I shoot. just love the things hell we play with them [plink and pot ] but all I have used is the win 458 brass sized down here is the Wootters report 1975 still good to day [load data included]http://www.riflemagazine.com/m.../PDF/ri38partial.pdf Anyway it matters not, because my experience always has been that of---- a loss of snot and enamel on both sides of the 458 Win---- | |||
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Take the empties, fill one with water, then pour it into the other. My guess is your Taylor brass is thicker than the formed win brass. Food for thought. John | |||
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i got my .416 taylor headstamped brass from neal at www.brassandbullets.com he's a great guy to deal with.... jeffe can put you in contact if this link doesn't work... go big or go home ........ DSC-- Life Member NRA--Life member DRSS--9.3x74 r Chapuis | |||
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As you say, ammo never gets checked as these morons wouldn't know the difference. But if you're worried, buy headstamped brass. Is this a non-issue or am I missing the point? ------------------------------- Will Stewart / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor Member, GOA, N.A.G.R. _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ Hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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Thanks for the advice...John I hadn't thought about the case capacity causing my problem. There were no other signs of pressure, no squared primers, no extrusion around the firing pin. The Jamison brass was noticably softer. Dropping the propelent a few grains might have solved the problem. At the time I didn't have time to experiment as I had to fill out the forms for Tanzania. As it turned out I didn't need to take a gun, never had a shot in ten days of hard hunting. Not something you would expect with Robin Hurt. Derek Hurt was my PH. Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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Ditto Canuck. Qualcart .416 Taylor brass is identical (as far as I can tell) to what I get with Remington .458WinMag brass run through my .416 Taylor FL die from RCBS. I think QualCart used the Remington basic brass to make the .416 Taylor brass. I have never heard anyone accuse Remington of making soft brass, and get away without a comeupance.  I have a 26" Shilen barrel on my .416 Taylor (1:14" TWIST), so 2400 fps with any 400-grainer is exceedingly "no problem." No pressure signs at all. | |||
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The only place I could imagine brass being softer is around the case neck, if it has been annealed. After a few reloading cycles any of the brass will work harden. Primer signs are a hit and miss for pressure indication. I had an article at one point that had looked at what point primer signs became evident. Some of the loads would be over 20kpsi before there was any visible primer flattening. Case head expansion is good, but with belted cases, that can be iffy. With non belted cases you have to have a very good micrometer calibrated to tenths to pick up any abnormal expansion. Jamison brass never gives me the warm and fuzzy, I would take a look at Hornady belted magnum basic brass and see if that will work for you and get your own head stamp (Mast Technologies might be a place to look, thats where Dave got his for the 470 mbogo project). Heck, I think they can even make the brass for you, not sure on the cost. Sorry to hear Tanzania didn't produce for you. I assume you were looking for Buffalo. At least you have an excuse to go back! | |||
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I've gone to Tanzania twice hunting Buff with the same result. I probably will never go back to Tanzania since there are alot of other places. I worked as an engineer in a press house. I don't think it was so much a matter of annealing, as chemistry. The particular alloy was probably easy to form just not good for use as a cartridge case. The first thing I noticed was tha head stamp was very deep. Jamison sent me 5 pieces to try before they would sell me any. I think they knew there was a problem. I have thought about trying them again to see if they have work hardened. Just doesn't seem to be worth it since forming from.458 works so well. I do enjoy my Taylor and it has 4 in the floor which I once would have given alot for. Part of the reason I built it. Thanks for your help.....Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I more or less agree with Will. But if you want to use your formed brass you could have the barrel stamped 416x458win. I have always wondered why wildcatters don't do this as it would solve all the customs worry. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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416 Taylor brass is available from Norma and loaded ammunition (with solids only) will be available by October in the USA. | |||
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.416 Taylor brass is available from Norma and loaded ammo (solids only at this stage) will be available in the USA by October | |||
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by jeffeosso: public safety annoucement .. one can NOT interchange load data with a 416 rem with a 416 taylor. Thank you Jeffe ,, My goodness .... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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.. Ya , ain,t that the truth . The NEED TO BACK OFF A BIT !!!!!!!! If you are sticking brass you are just a whistle away from schrapnel wounds ........ . I prefer to make my 416 Taylor brass from necking up 375 H&H and cutting it to length , or just necking up 338 Win mag brass .. Never get too thick a neck wall that way .. .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Thanks John for the case capacity heads up. I guess I was in too much of a hurry to think the problem thru. I just took a different gun. There is a difference in capacity. The water level in a Win case is about .080" below the case mouth when filled with a completely full Jamison case. Several grains of powder difference. This would definitly bump up the pressure. Sometimes you are just an idiot, thank God I'm an uninjured idiot.......Tom SCI lifer NRA Patron DRSS DSC | |||
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I bought the Hornady belted basic brass, trimmed to 2.5 then formed it in my 416 die then trimmed it again to uniform it. It worked fine this past weekend and shot VERY well with Water's pet loads using Imr 4320. | |||
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.. The only problem I ever had with the 416 Taylor round was when I was trying to make it a Rem . Mag , or a Rigby .. A couple friends advised me to just be happy with the velocity it gave and go kill stuff with them ..... I have a thing against using a great big long barrel on a standard action round , So both mine had less than 20" barrels ... I got 2300 fps with the 400 gr bullets and 70.5 gr IMR 4320 ., 2450 fps with 74 gr IMR 4320 and the 350 gr X and Speer bullets . And 2550 with 76 gr IMR 4320 and the 325 gr X ..............That was an absolute killing load .......With that load I owned bears .. Every one who goes on about heavy and slow should have seen how that 325 gr X @ 2550 fps worked @ 60 feet and less ......... . . .bang flop doesn,t describe it ... .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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I know that "NORMA" have made 416 Taylor-brass, but I dont know if they are avaliable for ordinary humans? I have one, for my collection. For my own Taylor I use 338 WinMag brass. *Treat problems like a dog; Take a sniff ..... If it can't be killed, eaten, or fucked? Just pie on it, and walk on!:-) Arild. | |||
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460- well not for ordinary mortals on a salary Actually they announced that it will be availabel in the Norma 'solids' line not the premium Norma African PH line, so you shouldn't need a second morgage to buy a box. You can buy .416 Taylor in nickeled cases from VO Wapens in Sweden....if you own a small oil rich country  | |||
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I dont own it.........yet! So I make mine from 338WinMag. But I havent been longer then into Sweden with this rifle so far.  *Treat problems like a dog; Take a sniff ..... If it can't be killed, eaten, or fucked? Just pie on it, and walk on!:-) Arild. | |||
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shh, be careful, or the luddites, who also hate the 416 ruger, will be in here, telling you how bad it is, and that you are a so n so for not buying a rigby opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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You can buy brass and loaded ammunition for the Taylor from A-Square. I have some of the ammo and it is properly head stamped. www.a-squareco.com/ BUTCH C'est Tout Bon (It is all good) | |||
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Be careful with A-squared 416 taylor. It didn't fit the chamber of my custom built 416 Taylor. Check dimensions. "shoot quick but take your time" | |||
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Studdog . Is your chamber the Taylor , or the 416/338 ?? I,ve known several people who used A-Sq. 416 Taylor ammo and brass and it worked very well .. They didn,t like the Lion Loads tho .. .If it can,t be grown , its gotta be mined .... | |||
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Gumboot458, I didn't measure it but I ordered 416 taylor and it came with 416 taylor dies. Currently, Larry at Superior is working on a load. I've discussed it with him in detail and he's never mentioned a problem with loads he's develope as to sizing. He's had trouble getting accuracy and speeds quoted by the gunbuilder however. "shoot quick but take your time" | |||
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Gentlemen I went thru an absolute nightmare getting my taylor done The gunsmith had infact cut the chamber with a 338 reamer and throated in 416. like case ( A ) I ordered 416 Taylor dies and 100 Rounds of Head stamped Bertrum Brass I loaded my first case up with 416 Taylor brass and couldn't chamber it....not even close I thought about it, ran a 338WM case thru the die, loaded it up and it chambered no problems Now you can use 338 Brass in a 416 Taylor chamber, but you CANNOT use 416 Taylor brass in a 338/416 chamber. After you fire 338/416 Taylor Brqass in a Taylor chamber it blows the shoulder forward. You will also find that if you have a 338/416 chamber and only have a set of 416 Taylor dies, that you may only get 1 or maybe 2 loads out of the 338 Brass before you will find it harder and harder to chamber. Because the case will start to headspace off the shoulder as it grows with FL resizing and not off the belt.  Now here's a really quick drawing, not too technical just basic . I apologies for the lack of scale, but it should give you and idea of where the problems come from, and the starting positions of the shoulder/neck in the two cases You might also notice the 338/416 case does infact have a LONGER neck than the 416 Taylor. Just remember the 416 Taylor is a 458 necked DOWN not a 338 Necked UP, the shoulder on the Taylor is about .060 higher, than a 338/416 regards S&F | |||
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As of June 2009 Both Saami and CIP have accepted "standardised" dimentions for the .416 Taylor. A square, desipte their hype had never got the round CIP approved. The CIP/SAAMI standardisation process can all be blamed on a forum member - a Moz safari operator. At the time there was a proposal to re arm all the communtity game gards with rifles in .416 Taylor - only the ammo was to be stamped - Mozambique Gov, and neigther the rifle nor ammo would list the cal. ie game gards would have a hell of a time getting ammo other than through official channels. Norma developed new solids that would work better in the .416 taylor than the Barnes 400grn available, and a new powder ws designed by St Marks to make it work at CIP pressures , African stability in heat and deliver almost .416 rem ballistics. But!!!! there were three sets of case designs in circulation. Christer Larson at Norma sucked his thumb and decided on the easiest to manufacture and give relaible results without excess pressures. Both CIP and Sammi have accepted this (last week - all finally complete). Norma ammo delivers a 400grn solid at 2350fps and 200bar below CIP listed maximun (ie you could load it up a bit). As produced the Norma ammo has pretty muchmore body taper than many rifles out there- ie it will fit and shoot in most wild cats. Pacific ttols made the reamers that were accepted as 'standard'. VO offer nickel cass individually engraved with your name!!!!! (and properly head stamed of course) If you have a .416 taylor and want to check dimentions give Dave as Pacific a mail or ask one of the norma crew in three weeks time when the factory re-opens! Pre ordered ammo will be available for collection in Reno for the African PH's who need. | |||
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Ganyana, Do you know which Taylor dimensions were adopted? A Square's "Taylor" wasn't a Taylor at all but a 416-338 Win mag. BTW, I form my Taylor out of 300 Win mag or 458 Win mag, the latter is much less complicated although it isn't properly headstamped. | |||
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Interesting. It would be nice to see the cartridge dimensions. I brought up the dilemma of the A-Square dimensions vs the more common dimensions on this site a few years ago...on this thread... http://forums.accuratereloadin...=4711043&m=556100515 There are few cartridge drawings on that thread. | |||
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Whatever has been adopted will need to be pretty close to the A-Square version. Whilst the A-Square dimensions may be 'wrong' ... what they published was a neat solution to getting head-stamped brass that would conform to any of the variations labelled '416Taylor'. Dies such as current Lee will no longer work with a smaller SAAMI spec'd version ... real shame as many 'smiths will need to buy another reamer to provide a chamber that matches the dies that start rolling out. Might be time to get a 'true Taylor' built before the bastardised version emerges. Cheers... Con | |||
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i thought A2 pushed their taylor specs through sammi a decade ago... art IS/was a member .. that is, A2 is opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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Well, shoot. Next time I am out talking to Dave Kiff at Pacific Precision Grinding, I will ask for his Taylor reamer print. He's going to do a .40-90 Peabody What Cheer for me. Real nice fella. There is hope, even when your brain tells you there isn’t. – John Green, author | |||
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Following this closely, having been involved in this thread from Sept last year. There is a PTG reamer drawing in it, not sure if its the same as we're discussing here but it is as emailed to me last year. The second last post on that thread from reflex264 says that his Lee dies work just fine with a Dave manson chamber, virtually identical to the PTG chamber, so heres hoping that sanity has prevailed & the wheel hasn't been reinvented. Ganyana, the friend you mentioned in your 24 Sept 2008 post on this other thread, wasn't a Mr Norma was it?  Steve | |||
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