fourbore,

I have no doubt that a well placed 300gr bullet of 0.375" diameter going 2000fps would kill any elk. My issue, well stated by DWright, is that it may fail to drop said elk in a timely manner. A good elk will always find the most inconvenient place to die. For that reason I learned long ago to hit them hard and well so as to drop them quick; therefore, minimizing their opportunity to find a nasty place to die in. For an example the last cow elk I shot I used my 500 A2 (600gr Woodleigh PSP at 2350 fps). Shot her through the lungs, as I didn't want to lose all the shoulder meat, and she only ran about 15 yards. She managed however in that short distance to find a rather nasty little "ditch" to do a "back flip" into before dying. The "ditch" was about 4 ft deep and just wide enough for an elk to lay flat on it's back with it's feet sticking up in the air. It was a real bitch getting her out of that hole. In hindsight I decided that the hamburger wasn't worth it and I really really wished I have simply blown both her shoulder straight to hell, which the 500 would have done easily.

BTW, I really didn't enjoy toting that cannon around at all as it weighs 11.5 lbs, the air was thin, and I long ago became a lowlander, but my elk rifle was getting restocked at the time and it was all I had (M1A was available but hardly weighs any less). My elk rifle is a 416 Taylor M70. When I was a kid it was a Springfield M1896 30-40 Krag. It worked too (although I don't believe as well as the 416), and I don't think it spit out those 220 bullets much faster than 2100 fps.

I once shot an elk bull with a 416 Rigby, 350gr X Bullet at 2650 fps, and he just stood there. I thought I missed (embarrassing too since the range was only like 75 yds). I seriously contemplated removing my scope (quick detach mind you) and using the irons. After probably a minute of contemplation I simply loaded up a second round, took aim, and squeezed. Just before the second shot I could see him start to bunch up and I knew them I had hit him well with the first shot, which was in the crease behind the shoulder, and let the second round go about 3" further back. He dropped at the shot and didn't move again. Did I mention that he started grazing again while I was contemplating pulling the scope! Elk can be damned tough.

For the record I don't like hand guns (or hand gun cartridges) for hunting large heavy game either. That is just me though.

Elk are easy to build a real solid opinion on based on one's personal experience. The problem is that the experiences vary widely because Elk and circumstances vary widely. I have killed a few,8 or so, and my family has killed lots and lots with everything from .243, accounting for over 20 last I heard, most one shot kills, to me with my 338 and 275 and 300 grain bullets along with everything inbetween.
All the above stories have happened to me or my hunting family somewhere along the line despite what we pulled trigger on. However, the rules of physics and making the living dead still apply on Elk. You need to drain the circulatory system or hit the spinal column somewhere hard to get a kill. Fast is all relative. In the orignal post from Alaska, I would guess the .375 with a 300 Hor. at 2000 fps and 75 yards would be a fine killer and if he shoots it that much better, what is there to add. By the way, the Whelen will push a 300 a bit fast than 2000fps. Maybe 2200 when pushed to 55Kpsi. I sure would like to hear some field reports on that 375 and the 300 Hor. bullet in Alaska game so let us know.

you guys are great man. i dont give two hoots what someone else thinks about what i use as ive given lots of thought and not a little experience in the matter befor i stop with my experimenting.

just for the record fellas im 53 years old and the first 47 lived in western oregon. ive hunted those rosevelt elk with success and used a LOT less gun then i use now. born in coos bay back befor light thawed thru the fir trees and boys i DO know about viney maple. ive hunted here in alaska and NEVER NEVER been as bruised and cut up as when i hunted for elk in the elliot national forest climbing thru the viney maple and underbrush that makes you think that never again will you ever wonder thru these parts again.

as for my gun n load...if you dont understand that animals havnt gotten tougher or smarter or harder to kill then maybe some soul searching is in line and maybe a history lesson or two is in line as well. im not the last authority nor am i best suited to give advise but my life experienc has given me aptitude that serves me well.

just some little history fellas...the first bull i killed in oregon was with a 22 mag bolt gun that i paid 35 dollars for and had a weaver 3/4 scope on the little grooves in the reciever to hold it in place.....yep...1 shot and elk horns on the barn as well as strap n eggs for breakfast.

tell me that my rig wont cut mustard...shame on you!!! this is why i hesitated to post here as i know that a few feel that unless your busting shoulders and ribs when the dang thing goes off ...it aint woth spit. well here is one ol boy that enjoy's my big bores....338, 375 44's and 458's. and i dont shoot any of them the way the factory loads em. just the first time to fireform em to my chambers then i have my way with em ...oh and by the way...i still remain alive in the most brutal and darwin-like place to live in the world and dont intend to lay down for anything real soon.

this has been enlightening and entertaining to say the least. thanks all

quote:

Originally posted by ted fries:
you guys are great man. i dont give two hoots what someone else thinks about what i use as ive given lots of thought and not a little experience in the matter befor i stop with my experimenting.

just for the record fellas im 53 years old and the first 47 lived in western oregon. ive hunted those rosevelt elk with success and used a LOT less gun then i use now. born in coos bay back befor light thawed thru the fir trees and boys i DO know about viney maple. ive hunted here in alaska and NEVER NEVER been as bruised and cut up as when i hunted for elk in the elliot national forest climbing thru the viney maple and underbrush that makes you think that never again will you ever wonder thru these parts again.

as for my gun n load...if you dont understand that animals havnt gotten tougher or smarter or harder to kill then maybe some soul searching is in line and maybe a history lesson or two is in line as well. im not the last authority nor am i best suited to give advise but my life experienc has given me aptitude that serves me well.

just some little history fellas...the first bull i killed in oregon was with a 22 mag bolt gun that i paid 35 dollars for and had a weaver 3/4 scope on the little grooves in the reciever to hold it in place.....yep...1 shot and elk horns on the barn as well as strap n eggs for breakfast.

tell me that my rig wont cut mustard...shame on you!!! this is why i hesitated to post here as i know that a few feel that unless your busting shoulders and ribs when the dang thing goes off ...it aint woth spit. well here is one ol boy that enjoy's my big bores....338, 375 44's and 458's. and i dont shoot any of them the way the factory loads em. just the first time to fireform em to my chambers then i have my way with em ...oh and by the way...i still remain alive in the most brutal and darwin-like place to live in the world and dont intend to lay down for anything real soon.

this has been enlightening and entertaining to say the least. thanks all

If you didn't want comments, why did you post?

Hum… another 22 caliber kills elk DRT. Geez, why do I even bother?

quote:

tell me that my rig wont cut mustard...shame on you!!!

Ok Ted, I’ll tell you. Your 22 Mag is a piss poor bullet caliber/cartridge combination for use against elk EVEN if you could guarantee a brain shot every time you used it.

How about we look at things in a slightly different manner? Brain shots are out the door as few individuals worldwide can guarantee that every shot they will shot will be a brain shot. So with brain shots eliminated, “What bullet caliber/cartridge combination will reliably kill the deadliest mammal on earth with a body shot?”

We already know from 40yrs of use that .223”/.5.56mm bullet/cartridge combination used by the US military is an unreliable killing bullet/cartridge combination against lightly clothed human beings even when using the latest HP hunting style bullets in the current military conflicts in the Middle East against terrorist enemy combatants.

So if a .223”/5.56mm bullet/cartridge combination will not reliably kill human beings why on earth would a true conservationist hunter deem it an adequate bullet/cartridge combination for use against elk which are far more durable than human beings?

So there you go…unless your family is starving…your selection of a 22 Mag for use against elk sucks.

Myself…I could care less what bullet caliber/cartridge combination that you use for hunting elk as long as 1: it is lawful in the state/area that you are hunting, and 2: that it will reliably and humanly kill an elk with a well placed body shot.

Edit added: As you live in Alaska, just how humanly do the native folks kill all those animals with their 22 Hornets?

Right on Jim!
Unfortunatey there are those out there that couldn't care less about humanely taking a game animal, and are only concerned about collecting the animal regardless of the animals suffering.
They are known as hunting slobs. I will say I do know a few around here, and refuse to hunt with them.
Great comment Jim!

hey hey hey...this is great man. i never said i condone using a 22mag for anything larger then rabbits. it is my experience that when an issue arrises here that folks pick out what they wanna take offence with and run with it.

if you will re-read my last you will see that the vain is that animals aint harder to kill just that peoples hunting skill "generally" suck and they "generally" use a bigger more powerfull gun to compensate for their lack of skill getting close enough for that tiny brain shot. AIM SMALL///MISS SMALL

i merely like the heavy bullets that the big bores contain and this comes from a lifetime of trying different things from a lowly 22mag to my 458 win mag for hunting. i use a fairly anemik 375 load that far exceeds the 38-55 that when it came out was a ray of death. then came the 30-30 and this for a very short time became the rule to compare to. my only point is that for the way i hunt i seem to do well and my boys that ive tought to hunt do well as well.

i still maintain that animals arnt any tougher nor are they any smarter then 100 years ago. so something has to be different and i for one believe that this is the way they are hunted.

as for the natives i know...they use their guns to a good end and i dont personally know of lost or wounded and tracked animals including the mighty grizzly that while it is the largest predator on earth generally are still a thin skinned animal and if you take the oppertunity to do a stalk on em and keep outta their nose...they will succome to a surprise shot every time. but you cant speed along in a wheeler or boat till you surprise one ...then "sneak on em" and have an animal that is mellow and minding his own busness...rather he is in an excitable state already as someone has wondered into his fronroom and he will never like this and it WILL take him a day or two to re-settle after such an experience.

nope i dont take offense to these somewhat missguided individuals that talk about stuff that may be over their heads but it is entertaining to say the least. im not here to influence folks...im here to learn from some of the more intelegent that post here and on other forums.

here is one to do if you have the time.....compare my 375 with its 300 gr at 2000 feet per second to the 54 cal's and 58 cal's in black powder shooting balls wrapped in clothe patches that kill these same animals every year and the animals that run off are compared to the modern guns ...more likely to succomb to their wounds.........i know...this is another thread but there ya go anyway.

just wanted to crow about this rifle that i love and is so short n lite and may i say sexy for an ol geezer to hunt with. thanks for the oppertunity to spout off