By that I mean a 416 Dakota based on the standard length 375 or 404 Dakota case. It would be a simple neck up/down operation and allow the use of more varied and plentiful 416 bullets. I have a pile of the old Mast Dakota brass that I would like to put to use and want a 416. One could use a 375 Dakota reamer and throat to 416 but the dies may be tougher to come by. Any ideas?

Yes, Jack Belk built one and was playint with it last year as I recall....Also with a 416 Rigby short of some kind...

There is the 416 Howell that was developed in the late 70's by Ken Howell. 2.5" long 404 case. I believe a few members here had some built. 400 gr at an easy 2400, 2500 if you load it to the max.

Case forming would be a cinch but is a guy into having custom dies made or could you simply "throat" 375 Dakota dies to 416 and be done with it??

Ray--Seemed like Jack dropped off the end of the Earth. Is he still able to be contacted about something like this?

Paul--The Dakota is the shortened and "improved" Jeffery, do you think the Howell is comperable enough to use my existing Dakota brass? I havn't yet found chamber drawings for the Howell.

I don't know much about Jack these days, he lives out in the desert North of Jackpot Nv. at what used to be an old prison for juviniles. He went hermit on us.....but hey he is a gunsmith!

The 404 Dakota.

Like I said earlier, I'm looking for a 404 Dakota necked down to 416. Is it possible to ream out the neck of a sizing die with a standard chamber reamer (I assume that the die steel is harder)? If so, a 375 Dakota die set would work great.

Reloading dies are heat treated to take the abuse of hundreds, nay, thousands of reloading cycles. You can cut them, if you have patience and tools. But the result will likely be lacking in terms of surface finish.

CH4D will make custom dies at a reasonable price, similar to what standard Dakota dies might go for, I would think

www.CH4D.com

You have an excellent idea there...your 10.6X63 will exactly duplicate the 416 Rem mag in an '06 length action.

There is also a .458 version of this posted in the load data section of this web site. I recall up to 2400 fps with 500 grainers and the same COL as the 458 Win.

The short 404 round is called a 416 Howell or 416 Winchester. I have one; it is my other large bore rifle. Mine is an unchanged 404 case necked down to 416. It should be capable of near 404 performance (the 416 has slightly less "displacement" than the 423). I have had significant pressure problems with mine and we have been unable to identify the culprit. I think it is a overly rough barrel.

The latest trip to the smith for correction has been for firelapping the barrel. At this point, I am unready to take this rifle on a dangerous game hunt; however, if we can "cure" the problem, it may be the "fourth" rifle on my trip (30-06, 9.3x62, 425 Express are already picked.)

This rifle will easily duplicate 404 performance; however, mine is very light, and velocities over 2300 fps with 400 grain bullets are painful. I believe that it would come close to duplicating 416 Rem performance; however, I'd not like to fire it at those levels in a 9.5 pound rifle. Kudude

If you trim the 404 down to 2.6", give it a .40" neck, a 30* shoulder and a dia of .530" at the top of the body (same taper as the short Dakotas), it will hold the same water as the Remington, and have the same distance to 3.34" COL as the Rem Mag does to 3.6", if you follow me. Same cannelure point.
The Howell is a bit more conservative: 2.5" case, .515" top of body, 25* shoulder, .345" neck @ 2.155".
If I had a bunch of cases and wanted a standard size round, it would be the above described.
It's called the 416 John Taylor. I won't cost you any more than any other non-standard chambering, and there's no reason it won't match the Rem, fps per fps.
;-)

and, of course, there is AR's own
416 AR, a shortened to 2.65 RUM

jeffe