I'm a relatively young guy, so nostalgia really doesn't have much to do with it. I guess I would have to say my fascination with the NE cartridges has more to do with me wanting one than the guns themselves. Owning a nitro express rifle in any other form seems a little weird--not to mention the feeding problems that would most likely ensue in a bolt rifle. I guess that's the long and short of it for me. It will be awhile before I can justify the cash for one though. =)

MacD37,

Bought a 470 NE in 2001 as it seemed to be the best choice for elephant. The 470 seemed an adequate cartridge for ele and the double seemed the "classic" choice to hunt the noble beast. I have used it on 2 elephant hunts and also taken buffalo with it although for buffalo a scoped bolt gun is my choice.

They are fun to shoot.

BigB

You did! You sob!!!! Don't act innocent.
Peter.

Now thats funny, there is nothing practical about a double rifle, its the worst choice one can make for hunting!! How it can tie with nostalgia is beyond me...The only place it has any pluses is up close and personal inside the 12 ft. bubble, thats it...

I love them, always had one or two, but I don't BS myself into believing I even need one...I want as many as I can afford and then some but come on a good bolt is more practical and certainly a better hunting tool...

Well Ray, you just tipped me over. I was going to pass on this thread, because the poll wouldn't register more than one reason, and until I read your post, I couldn't decide. Then I realised...

I disagree with you! I have enjoyed far greater hunting success since acquiring my first nitro double, despite having hunted previously with similar-calibre bolt-guns for many years. I have pulled-off any number of spectacular running shots, and never lost a wounded animal. When heading off down the track, where a buffalo encounter is a definite possibility, I reach for a double: its quite simply the best tool for the job!

I'd better add that it was not the reason for my very first acquisition, a black-powder ULH .577 Express, but even that heavy, clumsy gun taught me the value of two quick shots without having to concentrate too hard on the sights.

I bought a double because they are the best thing for doing what they were designed to do; get your stupid carcus out of a do or die that better judgment and or reasoning, or look before you leap philosphy would have avoided the situation you now find your quivering monkey self in. While hunting with two freinds and a P.H. that shall remain nameless, we bunch of 8 year olds decided on haste instead of waiting for the impending storm to pass. The Buff that was hit very well ( they all seem to bet hit very well and will nod of very soon when you have to go root them out) did his usual head lowering, falling down trick that gets you to bite his well baited hook. Upon literaly running him down we found him under a patch of shade doing his rendition of (" i'll be seing you in all the familar places) with one eye on us he waited until the slaps on the back, hand shakes and passing of the congrats settled down and he came with his head down. If you have ever tried to hit some thing moving a the speed of light at 20 yards with a scoped rifle when your pulse was at least 150 or above you know what the helpless, paniced sense of impending doom feels like. Some how one of us did hit him and ended it. After several hours we managed to light one cigerette and while dropped many times we all took a puff even those who have never smoked in our lives. The next thing i purcahsed after new underwear was a .470 Merkel 323. I will never hunt things that bite, stomp, or generaly nock you around for a bit of fun with out it in my shaking hands. Thats what i think. Charlie

All of those things are true, but let's not overlook the "cool" factor .

Moreover, they feel more like a game-gun (sxs), with long barrels in a well-balanced, short, and ideally good fitting package that shoots where you look/point.

It's been rather recent for me... as a double doesn't come into play REALLY unless IT is hitting the fan.....

the "two rifles in 1 stock" always seemed a bit thin to me, but it's "true"

that you can put MONSTER rounds into them and they work.... oh yeah


it wasn't until I tried firing a bolt gun against one did I become a believer in that quick second shot.... Even with me driving the double, a bolt rifle shooter can barely have his hand on the bolt before a double can pop the second one.


I have 2 front stuffer doubles, and I am building a cartridge double... as I WONT afford a "real" double...

jeffe

Marraki,
I don't disagree with you, thats why I have a double rifle or two around here all the time, but be honest with yourself, you could have pulled off those same shots with a iron sighted bolt rifle, I know I could...

The double is only superior at one spot, that within the say 12 to 15 yard bubble, wherein the second shot is almighty important, but in todays Africa, where you are backed up by 1 to as many as 3 rifles, that seldom happens..

I realize no one expected me to speak such heresy, as I am a double fan to the core, but its simply the truth, like it or not...

I am only a recent convert but have wanted one for years.

My first interest was sparked in the early eighties when I read a hunting story about an Aussie hunter who hunted an elephant with one.

Then looked for one in my price range. Turned down one I will always regret A$1600 because I wanted a bigger calibre.

The prices went up and up and eventually just bit the bullet and paid the price. Number two almost in my hands. Number 3 is already in plans and then it will be number 4 ......

Still a novice but give me a few years ....

Of course the NitroExpress.com website has piqued my interest a bit .......

quote:

Originally posted by NitroX:
..............

Of course the NitroExpress.com website has piqued my interest a bit .......

Shameless, absolutely shameless.

quote:

Shameless, absolutely shameless

Another shameless, absolute shameless comment from a moderator at Nitroexpress.com

Doubles are nice but couldn't afford to practice enough to be operationally proficient in moments of stress. Or, maybe I can't walk and chew gum at the same time.

Generally, they are over-priced, too heavy, recoil pronouncing, and basically single-shots if you want to survive an impending charge.

But they have their place.

The best thing I learned was to shoot the back trigger first.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Atkinson:
I don't disagree with you, thats why I have a double rifle or two around here all the time, but be honest with yourself, you could have pulled off those same shots with a iron sighted bolt rifle, I know I could...
QUOTE]

Ray,

You are going to BURN in double rifle HELL for that you blasphmeious bolt gunner. ...

In double rifle hell you will be forced to hunt with a Remington 710 in 7MM ULTRA SHORT MAG with a Blaser R-93 synthetic for back up,, for the rest of your eternity. And Mr Holland gets to pick the cover and the game you will be hunting. Can you say DEVIL COW TEMBOS IN THE THICK JESSE. And after you have been decked by the Devil cow you will wake up to Butch Searcy giving you mouth to mouth resusitation.

REPENT NOW BEFORE IT'S TO LATE YOU SINNER!!!

Here is my take on it. I can do anything that can be done with a heavy iron sighted bolt gun with my double. That's because I shoot it all the time and am very comfortable with it. I reguarly kill hog's out past 100 yards with my .470. And there is nothing on earth that is better close up. PLUS major cool factor.

I'll put my Searcy up against any iron sighted bolt gun of simular power and ballistics in side of 200 yards and come out even or on top every time. Then when we move to inside 20 yards and moving fast,, well there ain't to many bolt men out there that can beat you in that arena.

Just my humble $.02. challenges welcome.

Win or loose we drink booze!!!

None of the above.

I just want one. No particular reason other than that I like all guns and want one of everything one day.

That said, double rifle ownership is a decade or more off for me. Too many higher priorities to address in the meantime.

Cheers,
Canuck

Mines a new one...a Merkel 470. If I knew more about how to judge the quality of an older English gun...I may have gone in that direction...Well that may be a future purchase! Have to look forward to something!

I had my first chance to handle and shoot a Double Rifle a few months ago...Chapius 470...After that experience I just had to have one...

Very different from anything else I have shot or handled...portable, short and sweet, points quick, handles better than a bolt for close range, plenty of power in the big NE rounds, and above all they are just really neat! That is why I purchased mine...I look forward to chasing Cape Buff with mine in July this year!! but I will also have one of the trackers carry my 375 in case I need the scoped rifle...

I am the one who voted first for the double as a practical best tool for the job ... this is what gave Ray a chuckle. It is inarguable. The DR is best in special situations.

But, it all really started when I was 10 years old and found John Hunter's book, _Hunter_, at the public library. Many others here have shared this same experience. It is amazing how many ten year old boys got their horizons broadened by that book, and have continued on to become "professional small boys," as Capstick would say.

I blame it all on Robert Ruark.

John 'Pondoro' Taylor convinced be back when I was in grade school. :-)

I bought a double after standing 15 feet away from a cape buffalo and realizing that my bolt gun was just a single shot at that distance. It would be dicey to put 2 shots from a dbl into a buff coming from that close distance, but at least I could try.

When they get REAL close, you can always pull both triggers at once!

quote:

Originally posted by Marrakai:
When they get REAL close, you can always pull both triggers at once!

Didn't Sullivan do that with a hippo on video?

jeffe

I was pretty uninterested until I finally had a chance to really spend some time with a fine English gun. The lights came on when I got to see, touch and shoot a gun made to that standard of excellence.

Surestrike,
Inside 200 yards huh? Now thats a safe statement! like a 150 yards inside 200, right?

Now if you talking 199 yards I will take all your money with my bolt gun iron sighted, and give you a tip!

We call your post "town talk" around here!

A double is a 100 yard gun at max...and better a 50 yard gun and even better under 25 yards. Sure I can hit a buffalo in the shoulder area at 200 yards with mine but I got a 2 ft. miss buffer zone...I shoot groups with my 375 at 200.

I have been using my doubles for a little over 7 years. They are my first choice for all game except for long [over 250 yard shots].
I have found two quick shots superior to a bolt rifle with 3 or 4 in the magazine for most hunting.
With iron sighted big bore doubles I have killed caribou at 85 and 150 yards, deer at 85 yards and elephant at 120 yards.I have shot rocks at 200 and 300 yards. I can hit as good with iron sighted big bore doubles just as goods as iron sighted big bore bolt rifles.
With my scoped 9,3x74R I have killed a coyote at 271 yards, and a kudu at a little over 300.
I will admit 300 is a stretch for the 9,3, but at 200 to 250 It is just as accurate from field positions as my bolt rifles.
We all can agree that the double is the best rifle under 20 yards, by a long shot. I have found it suitable, even superior to other rifles for most hunting.
For long range mountain hunting, a bolt or single shot is probably superior, but a scoped double in 7x65R or 8x75R might just open a few eyes.

450#2,

Yes, Mr. Black, but you are a fanatic, you have lost all touch with reality, and succombed to the pass, you wear a pith helmet, and short pants, and I saw you once hanging around a school ground for little PHs!

Well it seems I made a couple mistakes with this poll! I should have had two more choices #1 I should have included ALL OF THE ABOVE, and NONE OF THE ABOVE, and #2 I should have titaled it WHAT MADE YOU FIRST WANT A RIFLE OF ANY KIND!


I must admit that I first fell in love with a double because of a little 410 ga shotgun that belonged to my uncle. and it was the first gun I fired that had recoil of any amount, above a 22LR. That was in about 1941. In 1942 I was given my first rifle, and 22LR mod 67 Winchester singleshot. I subsiquintly shot my first head of Big game, a whitetail deer with that little single shot. Many more whitetails, amoung other animals went down to that little 22 durring WWII to feed four large families on my grandfathers ranch, while out fathers were all fighting a war.

The little 410 ga double was the only double I had ever had in my hands, untill I went into Mr Kelly's hardware store, where there were animal mounts from Africa, and Asia! My grandfather couldn't pull me out of that store with a plow mule.

Mr. Kelly reccognized the hunter in me, and called me to the back of the store, where he placed a scarred up oak&leather luggage case on the counter, and opened it! My little six year old eyes must have looked like dinner plates. In the case was a H&H 500/465NE INDIA, with all the do-dads that go along with H&H rifles. Mr. Kelly put the rifle together, and handed it to me, coutioning me not to drop it! MAN! That rifle weighed a ton, compared to my little Winchester, or my uncle's 410! Then he handed me one of the cartridges that was for this rifle. That had to be the biggest cartridge in the world, and when I compared it to one of the little 22 cartridges from the pocket of my stripped coveralls, I was hooked for life, and from then on, my uncle's 410 double was a H&H double rifle, and every Rhino (armadillo) on our ranch was stalked with that little double!

I really can't blame Mr. Kelly, fully, for my effliction. I had already seen double barreld pirate pistols, and double derringers in the Saturday movies, and had formed a likeing for anything with more than one barrel.

I didn't buy my first double rifle till 1958, but DAMN it was a best grade H&H, cased, and had all the tools in the case, and was in mint condition. It was chambered for a very rare cartridge for the H&H name rifles, 9.3X74R. This is what will get you, I only paid $900 for it! I had that rifle for 5 yrs and never fired it, componants for 9.3X74R were not available in West Texas in 1958/1963. I finally sold the rifle to a man that, I THOUGHT, had more money than sense, but guess who had no sense! Man, I wish I had that rifle today.

NOW! As far as bolt rifles, and singleshots, I've always had them, and I love them, but the double rifle is my choice if I could only own one rifle. Even if it were only a .22LR!

Well apparantly I have about stirred up all the excitment on this thread I can, so I go now Kimo sabe....

BTW, the double rifle is my favorite firearm...

I saw a magazine in a newsagent called.''big guns for big game '' by ''Guns and Ammo''in 1979 ,with Jack Lott and Elmer Keith ,both had 577 nitro expresses ,and Elmer had a 500 Boswell also ,my sister bought this mag for me and i still have it [thankfully ]i read about their safaris etc, with awe, humility, and respect!!!! thinking how could a kid like me, ever be, like men like them !!!and i always wanted a 577 like Jack Lotts.Little did i know about the cost or recoil of such a weapon,or the cost of a safari ,and how on earth to find the money for it ,without the guilt feeling of ,spending so much money on such an extravagance !!!! Years later ,again my good sister helped me out with the purchase of such a weapon ,not a 577 but a double 470,and now she is also helping me out with a safari in May ,ummmmmm errrrr well, its nice to have a good sister !!! because i have only ONE !!!!!! sometimes dreams come true ,you just have to set your ''MIND TO IT, AND DO IT '' help from a benign party HELPS !!! mmmmmmmmm cant wait !!! will make me feel alot better ,happier and complete ,that i have achieved this life long goal,wwwwwwwwwoooooooooooooo hhhhhhhhhh ooooooooooooo ooooooooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ray,whats wrong with pith helmets,short pants,tea at two and those nice long stockings that we stll wear?? Charlie

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Surestrike,
Inside 200 yards huh? Now thats a safe statement! like a 150 yards inside 200, right?

Now if you talking 199 yards I will take all your money with my bolt gun iron sighted, and give you a tip!

We call your post "town talk" around here!

A double is a 100 yard gun at max...and better a 50 yard gun and even better under 25 yards. Sure I can hit a buffalo in the shoulder area at 200 yards with mine but I got a 2 ft. miss buffer zone...I shoot groups with my 375 at 200.

Hey Ray how often do you shoot at buffalo past 200 yards on the first shot?

And now you are going to the 7th ring of double rifle hell, your just making it worse for your self you SINNER!!!

To add a couple of thoughts: as a lefty posted to Africa some 32 years ago, I found a double more practical than reaching over to work a right-handed bolt. Doubles are also infinitely more elegant as a solution to the problem than are those noisy, clunky, too-long bolt guns.

Next, and sorry Ray, doubles do come in less than giant-killing calibers. My 350 Rigby No. 2 is accurate for kudu-sized game out to the 200 yards that is surely the maximum anyone who HUNTS would entertain as fair chase. I'd admittedly put the scope on for anything over 125, but I'd do the same with my lone bolt gun (a .375 left-handed Dakota).

Bolts seem to take much more after-purchase work than doubles, as witness all the babble about bedding, truing bolt faces etc, etc...

No doubt a double is really it. The Brits made the best. Wish I could afford to test whether current Brit doubles continue that tradition e.g. the 35,000 pound Holland computer-controlled big bore doubles...
Regards with intent to provoke, Tim

one thing i really like is the American sense of humour !!!!!!!!!!1 woooooooooo hoooooooooo !!!!!!!!

Double Gun Journal = porn

A few flip throughs of that fine publication and I was hooked. Being young I'll have to wait a few more years to actually get to play....

Tim Carney would you step forward please. We here are witnesses to this enrollment of Sir Tim Carney into the The Sacred Order of the Double Rifle Brother Hood Assocation. He has shown excelent judgment, and the long lost knowldge of what the bloody things are made for. Now sir please don you S.O.D.R.B.A. pith helmet, thats right the one with the horns, and pledge after me, I, say you name, do solemly swear that i will ,with my last breath defend against the bed wetting,thumb sucking bolt grabbers, that will burn in hell, from degrading the finest rifle ever desinged.Now all raise your glasses and toast " God Save The Double". We all welcome you . Charlie

Here, Here..



Save the bolt gunners.. Shoot their game for them..

>>>>>>>>>>>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

quote:

We here are witnesses to this enrollment of Sir Tim Carney into the The Sacred Order of the Double Rifle Brother Hood Assocation.

Charlie, I'm enormously, even doubly, honored...
Regards, Tim

Sir Tim, is my truly an honor to add you to our brotherhood. Though we are not well known, our members are loyal to our cause. Using you superior judgment and intelect you too can strenghten our numbers by finding those lost souls before they are seduced by the dark side. Remember to wear your S.O.D.R.B.A pith helmet so we can be reconigzed by other members.Until then good hunting, and recruiting. Charlie, Senior Bloviater of the S.O.D.R.B.A.

On the flight back today i thought of this i hope you all like it. We chose a double to fill our needs,wise words by the great ones we did heed. When death comes at you with blinding speed, its there in hands dont fret, no need. A solid in the left a soft in the right, nothing on earth can stand up to its might. Many books have recorded its legnthy deeds, writen by the old great ones,simple in their needs. So when our time comes to choose the very last one, make mine a double,shhh!....... the great ones have come. They look us over, some with a smile some, with none. Then one points , the one with the double, i'll hunt with that one. Charlie