Anyone have any load data for 525 grain bullets using RL15? I use 106 grains of RL15 in my Gibbs with 600 grain bullets, but need a good starting point for 525 grain bullets. Thanks.

"Any Shot You Want" list loads with H4831, IMR-7828, and RL-22 with the 525g bullet but not RL-15, Mike

135 gr. H4831SC 525GR TSX, 2350 Fps

rl15
http://www.accuratereloading.com/505gibbs.html

Mike, I've gone to 130 GR in mine with Woodlieghs. I'd start at 110 and work up.

Harry, that was with RL15? Since I am using 106 grains with the 600 grain bullets, 110-115 sounds like a good starting point for the 525 grain bullets. I am only looking to get around 2150 fps.

Yes it was R-15. On the reloading pages here Nick Kudu goes to 120 with the 600 so you should be fine.

Having said that, I switched to surplus powder for the 505 because the charge weights are so high. 150 grains of WC 860 gives me around 2100 with a 600 gr cast bullet. Almost any of the ball 50 BMG powders will work fine in that great big case. At $6-$8 a pound it helps a bunch. Can't get enough powder in the little bitty 550 Magnum case so I have to use canister. R-15 @ 130 grains too, but much higher pressure than the same in the 505 cas. Trail Boss for reduced loads.

Yep,
Nickudu's loads with RL-15 were well vetted in Zimbabwe, up to 120 grains powder with 600-grain bullets.
He even had to get Barnes to do a "draw-down" from .510 to .505-caliber back in the day.

Be sure to use at least 5 grains of Dacron filler (better six) if loading RL-15 with 525-grainers of any make.


http://www.accuratereloading.com/505gibbs.html

I used Benchmark Extreme by Hodgdon, in the 500 Mbogo.
That is a much faster powder than RL-15.
105 grains of powder with 5 grains of Dacron filler.
450-grain bullet of .510 caliber gave 2654 fps in a 25" barrel.

Leaving out the filler, 110 grains of Benchmark gave 2835 fps with same bullet.
GM215M primer in Hornady basic-based Quality Cartridge brass.

The 500 Mbogo (.510 caliber, 3") is close to 155 grains of H20 gross.
The .505 Gibbs (.505-caliber, 3.15") is close to 180 grains of H20 gross.

120 grains of RL-15 with 6 grains of Dacron is where I would start with the .505 Gibbs and 525-grainers, for an interesting load.

Thanks, yes in my loads I do 106 grains of RL15, F215M primers, 600 grain Woodleighs and 5 grains of Dacron. I think you need the Dacron even with the larger bullets.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Be sure to use at least 5 grains of Dacron filler (better six)
105 grains of powder with 5 grains of Dacron filler.
6 grains of Dacron

RIP

Just FYI, know nothing about this cartridge, however Sam and I did some extensive tests with different fillers, not sure if you saw that?, however Dacron gave us some higher pressures than many of the other fillers, with this "backer rod foam" giving lower pressures, more consistent pressures and velocity. In some cases with loads at the higher end of pressures, the dacron would actually push it over max, just the dacron alone! Was a major surprise to both of us!

Link to some of that documented data.

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...0-Nitro-Fillers.html

Just FYI is all.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
Thanks, yes in my loads I do 106 grains of RL15, F215M primers, 600 grain Woodleighs and 5 grains of Dacron. I think you need the Dacron even with the larger bullets.

FWIW, one other benefit of the WC 860: loading density is 100% so need to fool with Dacron. No unburned powder loitering around in the barrel, either.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Be sure to use at least 5 grains of Dacron filler (better six)
105 grains of powder with 5 grains of Dacron filler.
6 grains of Dacron

RIP

Just FYI, know nothing about this cartridge, however Sam and I did some extensive tests with different fillers, not sure if you saw that?, however Dacron gave us some higher pressures than many of the other fillers, with this "backer rod foam" giving lower pressures, more consistent pressures and velocity. In some cases with loads at the higher end of pressures, the dacron would actually push it over max, just the dacron alone! Was a major surprise to both of us!

Link to some of that documented data.

http://www.b-mriflesandcartrid...0-Nitro-Fillers.html

Just FYI is all.

Michael

AA has been a big opponent of using fillers for precisely the reason you mention - his pressure testing indicated that certain fillers could cause significant pressure spikes.

That's why you don't see RL-15 in the list of loadings in ASYW for the .505 Gibbs.

Michael

AA? Art? ASYW? Forgive my ignorance, or my brain is not working just right today?

OK OK--In seconds it come to me, Any Shot YOu Want and Art for sure. OK. Sorry!

Brain is not in gear, grinding a bit.

I never have a reason to use fillers so have zero experience with any personally. But when Sam and I were doing the barrel strains on the 470 Nitro we noticed some really odd things with some of the fillers, especially Dacron. So we set up a special test with several different fillers in 470 Nitro. One particular that Sam likes in all the double rifles is the foam backing rod, something you get at Lowes or Home Depot. Sure enough a load of whatever RL 15 would give 38000-39000 PSI with the Foam---the exact same load with no difference but Dacron was giving 49000 PSI--Well over max pressure, and 10000 PSI more than the foam with the exact same load. I found that amazing! Both Sam and I feel that more double rifles have probably been damaged by things like that, than actual barrel strain itself! Some fillers went even more than that.

Michael

RL-22 might be the way to go. Any Shot You Want for a 525g bullet lists 133g RL-22 for 2269 fps, and 136g RL-22 for 2328 fps at 34,900 PSI (still pretty damn low). I don't have a 505 Gibbs, but this book has been pretty spot on for my 500 Jeffery. Using a slower powder will increase recoil a bit, but will save you from a scary hang fire, particularly if you use Federal 215 primers.

Doc M, et al:

OK, I shall use fillers no more forever!


EXCUSE ME!
AS YOU WERE, M. Jines.


First there was the "plastic worm" or packing foam plug that I started off with in the 470 NE,
until Ross Seyfried scared me back to Dacron,
and left me hanging with no good explanation.

So I just gave up on fast powders in the 470 NE and went to the George Hoffman recommended load of 108 grains of H4831 with 500-graners, and even got better results.
Yes, George Hoffman mastered the 470 NE before moving on to the .416 Hoffman.

Now I am giving up on fillers in the 500 Mbogo.
I'll just stick to 2835 fps with 450-grainers and 110 grains of Benchmark.

Luckily I have a .500/.338 Lapua Magnum that will be perfect for 450-grainers at 2654 fps with no fillers.

Really now, with all the powders we have available these days, there is no reason for using fillers any more.

I HEREBY QUIT FILLERS!!!

Gentlemen, H4895 powder without fillers have served well to give me 2295 fps in my 500 Jeffery with solid BBS Bullets 570 grain, and 2285 for Woodleigh 570 grain SP Bullets without fillers and 102.5 grains.I would check up the big bore article by a chap named McDonald, he will steer you in the right direction.From my recollection,H 4895 powder was slowburning and didnt require fillers which could give pressure problems.My advice check that article and keep it simple.

If the .505 Gibbs is the Rolls Royce,
then the 500 Mbogo is the Bentley,
and the .490-bore/.338 Lapua Magnum is the Gullwing Mercedes:
No fillers needed for sure!

The .338 Lapua Magnum is speced to about 68,000 psi, CIP/SAAMI.
The 49/.338LM aka .500 Tornado if QuickLoaded to stay below 63,000 psi in a 24" barrel:

Benchmark (107.3 grains)(100% fill)
450-grain North Fork CP at 3.550" COL >>> 2650 fps and 7015 fpe

Benchmark (107.1 grains)(100% fill)
450-grain North Fork FP at 3.481" COL >>> 2648 fps and 7007 fpe

Benchmark (97.5 grains)(101% fill)
500-grain CEB DGBR BBW FN at 3.400" COL >>> 2464 fps and 6739 fpe

H335 (101.4 grains)(94% fill)
500-grain CEB DGBR BBW FN at 3.400" COL >>> 2513 fps and 7011 fpe

In that case (pardon the pun) the 550 Magnum would be the Power Wagon and the 600 OK would be the Kenworth.

Git 'er done!

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Michael

AA? Art? ASYW? Forgive my ignorance, or my brain is not working just right today?

OK OK--In seconds it come to me, Any Shot YOu Want and Art for sure. OK. Sorry!

Brain is not in gear, grinding a bit.

I never have a reason to use fillers so have zero experience with any personally. But when Sam and I were doing the barrel strains on the 470 Nitro we noticed some really odd things with some of the fillers, especially Dacron. So we set up a special test with several different fillers in 470 Nitro. One particular that Sam likes in all the double rifles is the foam backing rod, something you get at Lowes or Home Depot. Sure enough a load of whatever RL 15 would give 38000-39000 PSI with the Foam---the exact same load with no difference but Dacron was giving 49000 PSI--Well over max pressure, and 10000 PSI more than the foam with the exact same load. I found that amazing! Both Sam and I feel that more double rifles have probably been damaged by things like that, than actual barrel strain itself! Some fillers went even more than that.

Michael

Yes, sorry for the abbreviations!

Your data substantiate Alphin's.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
In that case (pardon the pun) the 550 Magnum would be the Power Wagon and the 600 OK would be the Kenworth.

Git 'er done!

Agreed!

I wanna Gullwing Mercedes, color red!!!


@#$!%*# FILLERS!!!

Life is so much simpler now.
I vow to endeavor to persevere in using fillers no more, forever.

Not Dacron, not foam, not grits, and especially not toilet paper!!!!

100% to 105% fills whenever possible, and make that possible or else!

quote:

Originally posted by babaode:
Gentlemen, H4895 powder without fillers have served well to give me 2295 fps in my 500 Jeffery with solid BBS Bullets 570 grain, and 2285 for Woodleigh 570 grain SP Bullets without fillers and 102.5 grains.I would check up the big bore article by a chap named McDonald, he will steer you in the right direction.From my recollection,H 4895 powder was slowburning and didnt require fillers which could give pressure problems.My advice check that article and keep it simple.

I shoot 570g TSX's out of my 500 Jeff also loading 105g H4895 in Jamison cases with Federal 215 primers. That load gives 2410 fps out of my 24" CZ 550 barrel. I got that load from "Any Shot You Want" as well. I believe the 505 Gibbs case is bigger though so I'd worry H4895 might be a little too fast. If you email Geoff McDonald at Woodleigh Bullets he will give you some recommended load data for his bullets as the gentleman above recommmended.

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
In that case (pardon the pun) the 550 Magnum would be the Power Wagon and the 600 OK would be the Kenworth.

Git 'er done!

Agreed!



I wanna Gullwing Mercedes, color red!!!


@#$!%*# FILLERS!!!

Life is so much simpler now.
I vow to endeavor to persevere in using fillers no more, forever.

Not Dacron, not foam, not grits, and especially not toilet paper!!!!

100% to 105% fills whenever possible, and make that possible or else!

Rip,
Turn away from the Dark "No Filler" Side!
Use foam plugs, Let go, Young Padiwan!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:

@#$!%*# FILLERS!!!

Life is so much simpler now.
I vow to endeavor to persevere in using fillers no more, forever.

Not Dacron, not foam, not grits, and especially not toilet paper!!!!

100% to 105% fills whenever possible, and make that possible or else!

WHEW---Did not mean to cause a stir!


HEH HEH..... Yes, pun intended!

Michael

Rusty,
I know you were here when this played out before.
Has Ross Seyfried recanted his admonition against foam plugs?
He never explained himself.

It is interesting to note how much slower the foam filler loads are than the Dacron filler loads. About 100 fps with the same powder charge.
Refer to michael458's pressure and velocity data.

The foam plugs might weigh a grain and a half, compared to 5 grains of compressed Dacron fluff.
The foam plugs are more air than anything.
Chamber ringing is what Ross Seyfried feared with the airy "plastic worm."

I bet that if you got 5 grains of foam plug packed in the case, you would have similar pressures and velocities, magnitude and variation, as with the Dacron filler loads.

I hypothesize that it would happen with use of either denser foam or just compressing multiple lighter foam plugs.

The 1 or 2 shot samples with Dacron shown by Doc M are not science!
This is disappointing that MIB would publish that kind of data, and compare it to a larger sample of foam wad loads.

I think Sam nixed it at the sight of one high velocity high pressure shot.

The other one where two shots were shown might have had highly variable amounts of Dacron used in the two.

I always weighed my Dacron precisely, to exactly 5.0 grains, with less than 0.1 grain variance, for example, in the 470 Nitro express.
And I always got good uniformity of velocity with my Dacron filler loads.
Ditto the 500 Mbogo reduced load with 450-grainers at 2654 fps.


Yoda (Art Alphin) advises against all fillers. May The Force be with you.

I prefer not to use fillers, and I prefer powders that will fill the case to around 90%. So with the 600gn Woodleigh in my 505 Gibbs I use 130gn AR2209 (H4350) for 2270fps. 130gn AR2213SC (H4831) behind the 600gn Woodleigh gives 2100fps, and 130gn AR2217 (H1000) behind the 600gn Woodleigh gives 1950fps. 130gn is the minimum charge I will use in this case. These are all with Bertram cases and FED 215 primers.
With the 525gn Woodleigh I have only tried AR2209, and 137gn gives around 2450fps, and 142gn gives 2500fps. Based on this I would expect that you would need to use AR2217 (H1000)to achieve 2100 fps with the 525gn bullet using no less than 130gn of powder. You won't have a problem with pressure with that load, but if it gives you more than 2100fps you will need to try a slower powder.

With a dearth of RL15 data, I decided to load up some rounds using RL22. I used 132 grains of RL22, F215M primers and the 525 grain Barnes TSX bullets. I was getting right at 2300 fps and good accuracy (three shot clover leaf off of sticks). That seems good enough for the time being. Thanks for the input.

quote:

I was getting right at 2300 fps and good accuracy (three shot clover leaf off of sticks). That seems good enough for the time being. Thanks for the input

So you taking my old girlfriend to the prom in June?

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With a dearth of RL15 data, I decided to load up some rounds using RL22. I used 132 grains of RL22, F215M primers and the 525 grain Barnes TSX bullets. I was getting right at 2300 fps and good accuracy (three shot clover leaf off of sticks). That seems good enough for the time being. Thanks for the input.

It seems like a bit more than "good enough"! Congrats Mike.

quote:

Originally posted by bwanamrm:
So you taking my old girlfriend to the prom in June?

That's the plan. I am going to take my Heym .500 NE double and the Granite Mountain Arms .505 Gibbs. In the Gibbs I will use 600 grain Woodleigh solids and 525 grain Barnes TSX. As you know the Gibbs is not even drilled and tapped so it will have to be all up close, open sight shooting. Should be fun.

quote:

That's the plan.

Lovely, can't wait to hear about the results! She deserves to go!

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Really now, with all the powders we have available these days, there is no reason for using fillers any more.

Yes ... I wasted my time for years with that unsafe and unproductive and downright nasty practice.

and please forgive a slight skew here. Tiggertate mentioned using a 600 grain cast bullet. Is there any place for cast bullets in DG rifles? (I'm hoping someone will say yes - maybe)

Ramsgate,
Though giddy about the death of Usama Been Hiding,
your post is heart warming comfort as well.

I have some .395/410gr Gas Checked LFN from my LBT mould, Lyman No.2 Alloy equivalent (Rippalloy Recipe variation),
that performed perfectly in the Iron WaterBoard Buffalo at 2200 fps from the .395/400 Nitro Express 3-Inch Aboriginal.

Certainly lots of Sharps shooters have killed lots of buffalo with cast lead bullets.

My mission now is to give proof of cast lead bullets on ponderous game, in .395 and .500 caliber,
while it is still legal to use lead,
but I shall use NO FILLERS!!!

quote:

Originally posted by Ramsgate:

quote:

Originally posted by RIP:
Really now, with all the powders we have available these days, there is no reason for using fillers any more.

Yes ... I wasted my time for years with that unsafe and unproductive and downright nasty practice.

and please forgive a slight skew here. Tiggertate mentioned using a 600 grain cast bullet. Is there any place for cast bullets in DG rifles? (I'm hoping someone will say yes - maybe)

Yes (for me at least). 600 grains is 600 grains so shooting lead ones at paper reduces my practice cost. Second, 600 grains of hard lead at 2000-2200 fps will go through just about any animal on the planet, even ones that can turn and kill you afterward. It may not make sense to try it given the better options, but they will do that.

So they're eminently useful when shooting pigs, coyotes and other not-so-uppty things that have the decency to just fall down and die when struck.

quote:

Originally posted by MJines:
With a dearth of RL15 data, I decided to load up some rounds using RL22. I used 132 grains of RL22, F215M primers and the 525 grain Barnes TSX bullets. I was getting right at 2300 fps and good accuracy (three shot clover leaf off of sticks). That seems good enough for the time being. Thanks for the input.

Mike
I been useing 140 gr of rl 22 with barnes flat nose soliids and the tsx with good results. Recoil is about the same as my 470.

I have step up to 150 gr loads big differance in recoil , much sharper recoil , less muzzel flash, and cleaner burning. I can shoot a box of 140 gr loads ,but 5 or so of the 150gr loads is enough.

The 140 gr load will bust clay pigons at 200 yrd all day long.

JD