Does anyone have any experience with any of the A-Square Hannibal Rifles? I have recently seen one for sale in .500 A-Square. I am told they're strong, reliable and accurate rifles. So far I have only seen North Fork and Woodleigh offering 600gr bullets and only Woodleigh offering a 600gr soft. Do other top manufacturers offer 600gr bullets? Your comments would be appreciated.

YMMV, but I owned a Hannibal in 450 Watts.

It was a hugely clunky, ugly gun. It fed fine with the ASquare ammo I had, and was hunting acceptable accurate. Fit and finish were on par with Bubba's Fine Plumbing and Gunfittering, Inc.

I'd not pay a single cent premium for a ASquare gun more than it's utility as a butchered 1917.

But, my gun certainly doesn't represent them all.

If you're really interested, I'd consider selling my .500. It doesn't have the ugly "Coil-Check" stock. I have tons of brass (Weatherby stamped, which was very common directly from A-square), bullets (up to 707 grain solids) and RCBS dies.

I've had several A-Square rifles over the years. They are a robust design in both size and style, but few rifles handle the recoil of the big calibers like that Coil-Chek stock. The surface area of the butt is probably twice what a normal rifle measures, which is certainly a big part of recoil mitigation, along with a perfectly parallel and thick comb.

The 500 A2 cartridge is one of the simplest of the 50s...just a necked-up 460 Wby. Brass should be cheap and available, and I don't know where you'd need more power.

1: its ugly as homemade sin
2: its just a 1917 with a 1914 bolt
3: the gunsmithing is likely sub-par - search for welded on recoil lug.
4: its an enfield, in railroad tie of a stock, and not worth a cent over the cost of parts and pieces

Jeffeosso,
Be careful,Biebs put me on ignore for saying that a truck axle tied to a railroad tie was more attractive.

El Jeffe said it perfectly! The cartridge is great but anything else made by A square is pathetic. I have really seen more attractive railroad ties!

thanks rob-- i totally agree

quote:

Originally posted by dave wesbrook:
Jeffeosso,
Be careful,Biebs put me on ignore for saying that a truck axle tied to a railroad tie was more attractive.

one can't avoid the truth for long!

but tied to it is an overstatement -- inletted with a chainsaw ... in a dark room... that's more like it

I didn't like the feel of the Hannibal. Even in the .500 A2 it seems too big and bulky and more suited to a .585 or .620 caliber.

My .500 A2 was finished a year ago and is based on a CZ 550. It has a 22.5", 1-12" twist barrel and its naked weight is under 10 pounds. It's not the prettiest rifle around but it shoots straight and fits like a glove.

As for bullets, good 600 grainers kinda fit into the "slim pickins" category. I am still experimenting but I like the 570 gr TSX and banded solids from Barnes.

I don't know what the asking price is on the A-Square Hannibal but I'd bet you would be money ahead to get go the CZ route and be happier with your rifle too. It's a simple and inexpensive procedure. My gunsmith has the chamber reamer and a throating reamer for BMG bullets.

You can read my thread called ".500 A-Square Finally Finished" from Aug 2015 for more info on how mine was done.

Here are my two 500 A2 experiments, Id rather have either of these than a Hannibal:



I guess the Ruger No. 1 was a little more accurate than the BRNO ZKK 602:



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But what are those funny things on the end of the barrel?

Those are "recoil impact adjusters" RID for the politically correct crowd here

The screw-on RIDs are best used for load development at the bench, then remove them for field use of the rifles.
The iron sights on that BRNO work too, has a
Wisner copy of Winchester M70 "African" rear sight.

The front of my cap says

"Tatanka"
"Story of the Bison"
I picked that up at the Kevin Costner place outside of Deadwood, SD.
The local Lakota people say "BC" and AC" to mark the epochs: "Before Costner" and "After Costner"
"Dances with Wolves." 1990. that makes this the year 26 AC.
My how time flies when you are having fun, in such interesting times (like in the old Chinese curse).



The BRNO is no slouch for accuracy either, with original BRNO trigger and Wisner safety, though it has been re-barreled to 12.7x68mm Magnum, and will be re-barreled again before long ...



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My .500 A2 is my favorite big bore rifle.

It is NOT a Hannibal! I agree 100% with jeffe's appraisal of those ugly sticks!

Nice rifles RIP was just funnin

I've given thought to converting a 458 Lott to 500A2, then I remembered how much I dislike shooting the Lott with full house rounds. Seems like quite the stopper round, though.

RIP,who's stock is that BRNO sitting in?

Yes sounds like a really potent cartridge and probably one of the best back up cartridge's available in a bolt action. I know the Hannibal is quite an ugly duckling but has anyone experienced any reliability issues with them? Thanks for your feedback so far.

In my late 1960's correspondence with John Buhmiller, who originated the cartridge now known as the 500 A-Square, it became clear to me that my goal of duplicating the ballistics of a .505 Gibbs with a much smaller cartridge case, did not require the case capacity of the full length .378 Weatherby case necked up to .50. I proposed to John that shortening the cartridge case to 2.5" would still leave more than adequate case capacity and allow the use of a standard (.30-'06 length) action. He concurred, and the .505 SRE was born. Joh agreed to supply the barrel for the experiment.

Discovery that the .505 Gibbs was a proprietary cartridge and that its components were not available led me to change my goal, which became to duplicate the performance of the .500 Nitro Express in a rimless cartridge suitable for a standard length action.

I had access to a good supply of Kynoch .500 NE bullets, both soft point and solid, and it did not take much experimenting to achieve my goal: driving a 570 grain .50 caliber bullet at 2150 fps. I merely swaged the .510" Kynoch buillets down to .505" to adapt them to my rifle.

The result was most satisfactory, since I was able to build the rifle I envisioned and take it to Africa, where it proved its effectiveness on buffalo, elephant and rhino.

My rifle, consisting of a P14 Enfield action with an M1917 magazine box and a 22" Buhmiller barrel, weighs in at 8 3/4 lbs, and shooting at game, I have never noticed the recoil, in one instance emptying the magazine (3+1) into a running Cape buffalo.

I later built a rifle, which I called .500 SRE, to accommodate the unaltered Kynoch bullets.

My first elephant, Kenya, 1971.

the 500 SRE sounds pretty close to the 500 AccRel (Nyati) in concept design.

The 500 AccRel Nyati easily matches 500 NE ballistics, factory 505 Gibbs ballistics, and 500 Jeffrey ballistics, all in a standard action with a Rigby boltface. A case larger than the 500 AccRel is not necessary until desiring muzzle energies over 7200 foot-pounds. Currently, my loads are probably going to settle around 6500 ft#.

This is my original drawing of the .505 SRE, which I made in 1968. When was the 500 AccRel Nyati designed?



John Buhmiller told me that he had been experimenting with a shorter case, as well.

I had originally designed a straight case like the .458 WM, but decided that the shoulder might make it feed better. Whether or not that was a factor, the cartridge feeds flawlessly.

Jeffeoso designed the 500 AccRel about ten years ago, but it is based on the Rigby case rather than the belted Weatherby case.
The first reamers had a 1.25" freebore that was discovered to be too long for brass bullets. The brass bullets gained so much velocity that the rifling stripped the bullet from .510" to .500". In 2012 several people took the same case dimensions and had reamers made with a 0.255" parallel freebore.

Here is one of the diagrams:



Some of the loads are available on AmmoGuide. My personal rifle was built on a Ruger Hawkeye, rebarreled and chambered by McGowan barrels.

Accuracy has been excellent. Below is a nice group at 100 yards, 95.5 grains 4198 and the CEB 360 tipped Lever Raptor bullet.

That weird Austrian/German/Canadian Schesky/Fuchs double bolt action rifle is a result of Csesky not being able to make a A-Square work while on safari.

I have handled them, they are ok. I'd own one. The stocks don't really fit you so much as keep you from getting clobbered.

i used the 20deg shoulder as homage to the 500 schuler/jeffrey ---

basically, its an unrebated 500 jeffe - and it can easily match factory loads - NO PROBLEM - while burning 30 THIRTY less grains of powder than the jeffe

even 600gr bullets can go 2300+ with a 23" barrel

quote:

Originally posted by FFemtRN5287:

... RIP,who's stock is that BRNO sitting in?

McMillan.
Same stock will fit either the CZ 550 Magnum or the BRNO ZKK 602, with minor fitting ... except the barrel channel was supposed to go up to no bigger than No.5 sporter.
Barrel channel can be sanded out for considerably fatter barrel, as proven here.
That McGowen 1:10" twist stainless barrel had a straight taper to a 0.850" muzzle diameter at 23", from a 3"-long cylinder/knoxform at the breech.
Full glass bedding and float forward of the secondary recoil lug on the barrel only if needed to make it shoot better.
Back up that barrel lug with steel allthread buried in the epoxy bedding.
It has some stainless steel pillars added too, whether it needed it or not.

Onto some other "500" wildcats more arcane here now, I see.

AD 1999
So as to use 460 Wby brass headstamp, I had a custom engraving on the barrel to match:
".510/460 Weatherby Improved Jenkins and Berry" aka the .510 JAB. Even though the rifle was chambered with a 500 A2 reamer ...

AD 2000
Then the Ruger No. 1 was done with a Manson reamer that changed the shoulder of the 500 A2 from 35 degrees to 30 degrees and throat extended only just far enough for maximum COL of 4.75" with 750-grain Hornady A-Max bullets, which have a fairly long cylindrical bearing surface, and a lot of point!
That is the real .510 JAB.









AD 2007
Then there was my homage to Dave Estergaard's 470 Mbogo, the .510-caliber "500 Mbogo 3-Inch"
which is his cartridge necked up and lengthened a wee bit:









AD 2010
Then the .500/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved 2.67" aka 12.7x68mm Magnum
aka "49-10" the ".49-bore of '10" in the manner of 30-06.
I think I'll just call that one the ".500 Alamo"
henceforth.







AD 2012:
Then came the "500 Bateleur" which is a .510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved 2.7".





For long-nosed 500 Bateleur:



For short-nosed 500 Bateleur:





.500 Alamo
500 Bateleur
500 A2
.510 JAB
500 Mbogo

Any of these, including the 500 AR Nyati, are far better than being stuck with a 500 Jeffery.



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NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
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I have owned a few Asquare rifles...they always functioned well, and the coil check works...my brother has a 500 built on a CZ550...it hits hard, I would not be scared of owning either or the combo of both...

Ed