Anyone else making expanding bullets for the 500 other than barnes and Woodies?

Yes, we do a 450gr HV bullet. As far as I know no one has ever recovered one, but there are all the indications that it would look something like this 458 recovered from a lion.

Gerard,
What was the impact speed of that .510/450gr HV that is so propeller-perfect in expansion? That on a lion!

What rifle chambering was that lion shot with?

I have 100 of those bullets that I am saving for the 500 Mbogo, and I could shoot them at anywhere from 2100 fps to 2800 fps, I am sure.

Do you have G1 BC numbers for the bullet in the 1800 to 2800 fps range?

What velocity would you recommend for that bullet for optimum performance on?:

A. lion at 0 to 100 yards
and
B. impala at 0 to 300 yards

This bullet gives new meaning to "African Sheep Rifle."

RIP,
The pictured bullet is a 400gr .458 fired from a 458 Win Mag . Impact speed was around 2350fps/2400fps as it was a close shot. Shoot them as fast as is safe. Up to the point where the petals come off (about 2600fps) you get conventional dart stabilised penetration. If you hit at point blank range (2800fps), expect a large volume wound channel up to the point where the petals shear (25" to 40" in) and FN solid type penetration from there on. It does not get much better than that. BC is not that great with the short ogive and the flat base, high .2s to low .3s. Impala at point blank will result in the temporary cavity exceeding the volume of the animal body and red haze. Use it for bait only but bring a plastic bag to transport it.

If you are prepared to single feed, there is an HV VLD in the pipe line. It needs testing on large animals but the whaling season is not open yet. Some people also have an ethical problem with taking large animals at silly distances.

O.K.
Sorry, I saw the bullet and thought .510/450gr HV given the title of the thread, and the similarity in appearance of the .458/400gr HV to your .510/450grHV.

The African Sheep Rifle bullets by GSC:

320-grain HV for .404 Jeffery
330-grain HV for .416 Rigby
340-grain HV for .395 Tatanka
400-grain HV for 450 Dakota
450-grain HV for 500 Mbogo

All at 2800 fps.

Tropical loads for African Sheep Rifles: may be downloaded to 2700 fps MV.

Gerard,
You do realize that the .395/340-grain GSC HV is also an African Sheep Rifle Bullet, don't you?

It is in short supply on this side of the pond.

prof242 wants some, I want some ... sounds like a niche market to me.

RIP,
It is the best sheep rifle of those mentioned because it has BC (the result of the 1:12" twist). Why do 400+gr bullets fail more frequently in a 416 Rigby than in a 416 Rem Mag? The RM has a 1:14" twist and the Rigby spec is 1:16". What sets the 416 Barret apart from the 416 Rem Mag and the 416 Rigby, apart from monstrous case capacity? A 1:12" twist capable of stabilising high BC bullets. Our 420gr .416 SP keyholes from a 416RM at 25m and never stabilises. From a 1:12" it shoots to beyond 2500m. Of course shooting stubby bullets at short range (to 500m) from a tight twist hurts nothing, so the moral of the story is........when building a general use custom rifle, use the tightest twist available.

Our suppliers open on the 7th (we exhausted the local suppliers stock of 12mm bar in November) and then we will order what is needed for, amongst others, the .395. We have your and Max's order and, if anyone else wants, now is a good time to tell us. Most of the 12mm bar bullets (.395 to .465) are low volume items and we keep a minimum stock level of these.

Gerard, How come you do not have any expanding bullets in the 500-540 grain range for .510 caliber?

because
1: you don't need yet another expanding .510 at nominal weight
2: it would be a foot long

dirklawyer,
The .510" 450gr HV and 540gr FN bullets are similar in length to a jacketed lead bullet of 535gr. Bullet length and, by implication the stability factor, is what makes or breaks the initial penetration of a bullet on game. With lead core bullets there is an upper threshold of speed that should not be exceeded, otherwise bad things start happening. Solids squirt their cores, softs disintegrate completely and bullets thus destroyed, do not stay on course and sometimes do not reach the target inside the animal.

With monos (softs or solids) the upper threshold of speed no longer applies. The faster you drive them, the more momentum and energy is available to apply to the cross section of the bullet which varies as it penetrates. The measure of reliability of performance that is gained with a well designed mono soft is easy to get used to. Mono solids of FN design are as good as it gets when a solid is called for.

It is significant that the solids that are acknowledged as the designs that work best are all derived from the original that GSC launched in 1997 and have been refining since then. Some have fallen by the wayside but GSC now has a ten year track record of continuous success with FN drive band solids. That is comforting to know when the last thing you should be worrying about is the bullet you have just launched or are about to launch.

gerard,what velocity would you expect for the two projectiles you produce in a 500 Nitro double.I have enquired with the "local" agent in New Zealand (I live in Australia!)and he was not the least bit interested in .510 projectiles.Can I buy from you direct?

wombat,
The 540gr is good for 2200fps and the 450gr HV for 2350fps, assuming 24" barrels. You can place the order with us direct and we will get them to you via our outlets over there. No worries.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
RIP,
It is the best sheep rifle of those mentioned because it has BC (the result of the 1:12" twist). Why do 400+gr bullets fail more frequently in a 416 Rigby than in a 416 Rem Mag? The RM has a 1:14" twist and the Rigby spec is 1:16". What sets the 416 Barret apart from the 416 Rem Mag and the 416 Rigby, apart from monstrous case capacity? A 1:12" twist capable of stabilising high BC bullets. Our 420gr .416 SP keyholes from a 416RM at 25m and never stabilises. From a 1:12" it shoots to beyond 2500m. Of course shooting stubby bullets at short range (to 500m) from a tight twist hurts nothing, so the moral of the story is........when building a general use custom rifle, use the tightest twist available.

Our suppliers open on the 7th (we exhausted the local suppliers stock of 12mm bar in November) and then we will order what is needed for, amongst others, the .395. We have your and Max's order and, if anyone else wants, now is a good time to tell us. Most of the 12mm bar bullets (.395 to .465) are low volume items and we keep a minimum stock level of these.

Regarding .395 bullets and barrels:
I like having 3 bullets of the same weight in the .395 caliber, HV, FN, and SP.
This is the only such matching-weight trio in all the calibers at GSC, right?
It would be non-sacreligious to call it a "non-holy trinity," but they will make good holes in things, near and far, so "non-holy" does not quite make sense.
Trio will do.

Regarding lack of .510/570-grain GSC HV: Now I remember why I had to use a Barnes XLC as a soft to go with that GSC .510/570gr FN that slew the 1830# bison in my freezer.

Time to replenish the bison. All I have left is burger.

Next up is a couple of cow bison one each with two different bullets from the .395 Tatanka:
340-grain GSC HV
310-grain SHark

Both will be in the 2700 to 2800 fps window.
I wonder if I will recover a bullet?

I'll do a broadside and a "Texas" on each and see how they compare.

.395 Tatanka reloading dies from Redding are due, about a month off. Then accuracy testing commences.

quote:

Regarding lack of .510/570-grain GSC HV: Now I remember why I had to use a 570gr mono as a soft to go with that GSC .510/570gr FN that slew the 1830# bison in my freezer.

It was fortunate that I could give input on the suggested twist rate for the .395 and I am grateful for that opportunity. That is what brought about the 340gr trio. When GSC designs for pre existing calibers, the bullets are made to best suit those existing conditions. It does not mean that we did not try a heavier HV than the 450gr HV we now make and recommend. Do I recall correctly, the "expanding mono of 570gr" did not exit on a broadside shot? Ha!! Have we not been taught that a bullet/caliber combination incapable of an exit on a broadside shot is inadequate for the specie? Why do I have to keep dragging guys into the 21st century and then they go and fall out again?

Gerard,
O.K.!
When I want complete penetration of bovine with a soft point, I shall select the HV bullet that I can get up to enough velocity to blow off the petals.

The reason the .509/570-grain XLC did not penetrate the offside hide was because it had such a large frontal diameter at a paltry 2350 fps impact velocity.

Probably a .510/570-grain HV (if it existed) would have been much the same at same speed.

Hole in the off-side too means better blood trail, a wider and shorter blood trail, since it also means greater destruction inside chest cavity, due to petal explosions in lungs with Higher Velocity (HV).

That GSC .510/570-grain FN at same range and impact velocity penetrated 8 feet of bison from south side to north side, and it is what knocked the bison down and out for good.

One each Repeat shots with the XLC and the FN, after the bull was dead, produced the same results even at 25 Yards range, though the XLC folded back a wee bit more:

But there is something to be said for a soft and a solid of the same weight.

There is even more to be said about a soft, solid, and a VLD target bullet, all of the same weight, like the .395/340-grain GSC Trio.

Just takes enough twist AND enough velocity.