The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Big Bores stoked on the 404 JeffreyGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I build one new rifle a year and I have promised my daughter a Cape Buff hunt. She is already two trips to Africa ahead of me so I have some catching up to do. I have been wrestling with caliber to build. I have always wanted to put a 404 together, but have been unable to locate brass. Last week I saw that Brownells had some, so I quickly purchased 100 pieces. The die has now been cast. I'm going to order a Krieger barrel next week (10 month wait but the only barrel I use) and will purchase a CZ action shortly. It is going to be a non-traditional DG rifle becasue I will be using a McMillan stock, but it will have iron sights. I will post more as the parts become available. | ||
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404 is a great choice, I wish that I had one. I once bought a rifle because someone gave me some brass.  Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Hi ggruber, The following is NOT criticizing your choice, just chatting on the topic of hunting, rifles and ammo.  So can we bounce some ideas around? Going back over a century we made double rifles to have a very quick second shot. Next lever rifles, bolt action rifles, etc. came allowing for darn quick second shots, third shots, sometimes four or more shots before reloading the rifle. To ME the bolt action is capitalized on by firing ammo at HUNDREDS of feet per second faster than the typical break open double rifle. Flatter trajectory, and greater energy from a given grain weight bullet at higher velocity. So, though I love the nostalgia of the 404 Jeffery, and it's strong history on DG in Africa, if I were to use a bolt action rifle on a DG hunt, and my recoil tolerance ended with the 404 J, I'd step down to a .416 caliber round, use CEB, NF or GSC bullets at 340 grains weight, {sectional density of .280 } and have a MV of 2350-2400. I might consider the 404 J loaded with 350 grain bullets at 2350 MV - 2400 MV, using the same bullets listed above, IF I could handle the recoil. I guess what I am asking is, "Why turn a blind eye to the bolt action's strength by using ammo that is firing at traditional double rifle velocity?" D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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DRH: I'm a bit confused. First, a .404 has proven to be adequate for everything; maybe a little bit light, but you could deal with it. It's going to push a 400 grain bullet around 2150 fps, more or less. Any of the .416's are going to push that same weight bullet at 2350 to 2400 fps. So I don't understand thinking the .416's are going to be ligther in recoil; although they are very manageable. I agree that I would prefer a .416 to a .404, but recoil is not the issue. I agree that the choice of a .404 is likely based on nostalgia. | |||
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When i owned a 404J, the only factory ammunition (to get cases for reloading too) was RWS. The Germans loaded the 400gn projectiles to 2350 fps. Was never a problem to me in a little takedown Thomas Bland rifle... that i wished i still owned! Good luck with whatever you decide. Cheers, Chris DRSS | |||
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I wish I had a dollar for every Elephant that has been killed cleanly, as in a killing shot followed by an insurance round with the 404 Jefferys. Ditto for Buffalo. If I may quote van der Walt, "The territories now known as Kenya, Tanzania, Zambia, and Zimbabwe adopted the 404 Jeffery as an official game depart standard chambering." In American English that means that game rangers went into herds of Elephant with the intent of killing them all quickly with a 404J. Anything you can accomplish with a 416 Rigby can be done as well with the Jefferys cartridge, with the advantage of an additional round in the magazine. Next question? Rich | |||
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There is certainly some confusion or lack of knowledge about what the 404 is capable of with the standard 400gr bullet weight. I have factory Parker Hale ammo loaded to 2,245fps MV and Kynoch at 2,225fps. RWS factory ammo was/is loaded to 2300fps and some early DWM ammo was loaded to 2400fps. If reloading for the 404 there are plenty of loads around that easily get to 2400fps and some up to 2500fps with the 400gr bullet. So in effect the 404 will do what any of the 416's do and the 425WR cartridge which had a great reputation as an elephant killer. Of course the 404 at 2100-2200fps performs every bit as good as the venerable 450-400 3" cartridge in the double rifle but has the versatility in a bolt gun to hit harder and further that the double cartridge. | |||
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I have every intention of loading in the 2150 to 2200 range. | |||
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Norma makes 404 Jeff with 450 grain soft and solid from Woodleigh ! Check out www.norma.cc Morten The more I know, the less I wonder ! | |||
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Couldn't agree more - inclusive of the above small amendment It's a beautiful cartridge, with a storied history of hunting African DG.  You just need to build the rifle to send it ... AHR 550DGR in 404 Jeffery. 
With that said, none need be asked ... because the correct response will always be "Jeffery's .404."  "Only accurate rifles are interesting." | |||
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I love my 404s I have 2 and both shoot awesome,low recoil, and will put a buffalo down toot sweet! DRSS Member | |||
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There's a proper magazine rifle...using open sights. | |||
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That is certainly not true. The 416Rigby is basically the same as the 416Weatherby without a belt. When Jack OConnor was loading up the 416rigby he found that it easily pushed 400 grain bullets 2600fps, but he didn't like the recoil. Today we have lighter monolithic bullets for Africa. My current favorite load in the Rigby is 350grain TTSX at 2825fps. It shoots FLAT and hits HARD. It is accurate, while easy on the primer, brass, and extraction. The Jeffrey is a nice cartridge but it cannot dream of doing 6200ftlbs, safely. Of course, the Jeffrey is a 5000 ftlb cartridge. If one wants to put the money into it it will do fine in Africa. Myself, I would probably get a 416Ruger as the 'bang-for-the-buck' 5000ftlb rifle. The new Ruger African model has been turning quite a few heads with light, easy holding rifles, with good accuracy right out of the box. I would not to rain on anyone's parade and a 404 Jeffrey would be a delightful rifle to hunt with. I just want choices to be in agreement with fact, too, and the 404Jeffrey means choosing a calibre with a much limited capacity compared to the Rigby. Does the 30-06 do everything that the 300WM does? NO. But the 30-06 is still a great cartridge. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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On another note: I buy powder when I can find it and my research shows that either IMR 4064 or RL 15 are the powders of choice for the 404. RL 15 is not availalbe but I can get 8 lb of 4064. I prefer to buy what is available since powder is so hard to find. Will 4064 work adequately for this caliber? | |||
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It certainly is true, and nothing you wrote explained why it's not. Okay, here's a clue: assertions are not arguments.
Dude, it doesn't need to do 6200fpe to kill cleanly. Can you cite one instance of where a 400gn .404 Jeff load (@ whatever velocity - from original 2100fps to Hornady 2300fps) FAILED in the field against African DG?
"A much limited capacity" for what, exactly? Okay, you're AR's resident big-bore caliber genius. So please tell us what specific African DG the .404 Jeff is "inadequate" for? I'm sure we're all a-tingle to find out ...  | |||
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Would you like to try that again? Most hunters would agree that a bullet at 2800fps can do things that a bullet at 2300fps can't do. This should not be a point of debate, it is simply personal choice. Some are happy to hunt with 2300fps, some would opt for 2800fps, given the option. There are two common applications, yea, three: a) the 2800fps cartridge can be used for 'all-around' hunting, and include large antelope at longer range (200-350m), should the hunter elect to do so. b) even for dangerous game there are extra options. Four years ago, one afternoon, my son had to make a call while coming up on a herd of buffalo out on a grass plain 200 meters from the last tree of the forest. Does he take the shot or not? He had a solid rest (sticks and someone for the right elbow), there was not a blade of grass or stick over 12 inches between him and the buffalo, the buffalo were feeding and moving slowly away, not spooked, and the rifle was accurate about 1 MOA. He decided to take the shot. The buff ran about 70m into open grassland, and he hit it with a second shot (250m) that was easy because of the rifle. Not every hunter would do this but a rifle loaded to a flat, accurate trajectory allows the option and does so with a safer margin. Again, this is a choice, but the physics and ballistics are not a debate. c) as with all calibre decisions, a faster muzzle velocity allows bullet choices for maximally using the extra energy. That energy can be put into extra wound creation for marginal shots. Not all bullets provide an advantage with more velocity, but some do. what does the extra wounding accomplish? It provides a very marginal advantage when the shot becomes marginal for any reason (animal moves at trigger break, elbow wobbles, unseen branch touches bullet on route). None of the above takes away from the 404Jeffrey and what it can do, but it is not the ballistic equal of a 416Rigby when handloaded to equal pressures. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I know it is not a Krieger barrel but there is a Walther .423 barrel in the Classifies.. http://forums.accuratereloadin...2711043/m/4221000202 | |||
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I’ve tried to stay away from this aspect of the 404 Jeffery vs 416 Rigby discussions because it deals solely with personal needs or requirements and perceptions… First off, I agree with the premise that they are performance twins BUT ONLY WHEN they are using identical bullets, except for the difference in caliber, and loaded to traditional velocity levels of either 2150fps or 2400fps MV. The principal difference between the them is the availability of a variety of bullets. And the performance capability of each cartridge with loaded to modern pressure levels rather than historically lower pressure levels. Nick - Perhaps a pictorial will help… The muzzle velocity and energy reading were taken from QuickLOAD when adjusting both cartridges to a 62700psi loading level – or as close as possible…  The annotated ballistics information was taken from the JBM Ballistics online Trajectory calculator program after keying in the appropriate bullet and MV/energy readings. Here is the link to the trajectory calculator: http://www.jbmballistics.com/b...rs/calculators.shtml When viewed as plain data it is easily seen that when loaded to modern pressure levels the 404 Jeffery cannot match the ballistics capability of the 416 Rigby – it just doesn’t have sufficient powder capacity. And that is the crux of 416Tanzan’s comments. Jim  "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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capoward if we look at the 400gr bullet data you have presented, as this is the bullet weight on which both rifles earned their dangerous game reputations and on which 'historical' loads are compared, you could hardly say that the difference of 66fps MV is an awe inspiring advantage to the 416 Rigby. It would actually be interesting to see what the powder charge of both cartridges would be to achieve those velocities and which would have the efficiency advantage. The extra 66fps in the Rigby does translate to some extra ftlbs of energy but we all know, or should know, that energy does not translate directly to killing power on dangerous game, if anything the 404 has the advantage here with a larger diameter bullet. The velocity difference will have absolutely no effect on trajectory over the usual hunting ranges that both cartridges would be used for. While your data is presented as an absolute ballistic comparison I think we need to accept that when we compare these two great cartridges, or any other so called ballistic twins cartridges, we are usually meaning twins in the big/dangerous game field i.e. used with similar bullets, on similar game and under similar conditions. Whether one was carrying a 404 at 2,574fps or a 416 at 2,640fps with a 400gr bullet, if you want or need that velocity level, you would be dreaming if you could tell the difference between the two cartridges. | |||
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Eagle27, I have zero dogs in this fight as I do not own a 404 Jeffery or a 416 Rigby. And this is why I really wanted to stay out of this discussion – the “historical bullet weight”. I definitely agree that I should have been slightly more expansive in my 2nd paragraph to have included the 400gr TSX bullets which with only the 66fps difference at modern pressures which still keeps them within the ‘ballistic twins’ category. Your comments regarding that are completely correct. I fully acknowledge that historical non-bonded C&C construction bullets have been used to kill everything that has walked this earth over the past 110+ years. But when discussing a cartridge, or cartridge/rifle combination, I truly could care less about the bullet weight, followed by bullet construction, that “made the name” for the cartridge, or cartridge/rifle combination, other than as an item of historical interest. And a traditional weight monometal bullet is totally unnecessary to match or exceed the within game terminal performance of a C&C, or bonded C&C, construction traditional weight bullet fired from the same firearm. I personally prefer to use a properly designed monometal construction bullets in a bullet weight, for that caliber, that will provide the best combination of maximum ballistic performance and maximum within-game terminal performance possible. And this optimal combination of ballistic performance and within game terminal performance typically leads to using a lighter weight monometal bullet rather than a historical weight monometal bullet. Which…kinda leads back to Nick’s and 416Tanzan’s discussion…that being the 350gr .416 TTSX bullets for which there is no comparable .423 caliber TTSX bullet… Perhaps Barnes is missing the boat on that one. Bullets and cartridges are a personal consideration and choice. I believe everyone has the absolute right – as long as legal where being used and legal for what it is being against – to use the bullet(s) and cartridge(s) that they individually desire to use. Sorry for any thread jack my comments may have caused… Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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I have always been amazed at folks that just accept someones print that the 404 is anemic!and quote the old 1920 loads. In a good Mauser with a 26 inch Lothar Walther barrel all of mine have slightly bested 2600 FPS with 400 gr. bullets and 95 Grs of 4831..I have shot hundreds of those loads..Got that load from a famous gunscribe many years ago... However in the last 5 or 10 years, or whenever Geoff at Woodleigh conspired with me to make the 450 gr. RN and PP, I have used that bullet at 2400 FPS give or take 50 FPS. I also have used the 400 gr. North Fork cup points a good deal at a little over 2400 FPS with about 93 grs of the same. The 2014 Jefferys ain't yo grampaws gun.. Will it hammer buffalo at 2150 FPS..yeah! it will. I been using the 404 since high school, about 1949 or 50 was my first one. All I shot with that one was rats at the Marfa, Texas dump! Thus my dream of Africa, and its been fulfilled many times over. The 404 is no better than the 416 Rem or Rigby but its got nostalgia, and a soft spot in my heart. All three kill everything Africa has to offer, and they do it very well indeed, contrary to what some might have you believe. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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How much does it weigh? | |||
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Thanks, Capo, for the tables. FTR, I just did calculations in my head along the following lines: Rigby has a 115% greater capacity than the Jeffrey (122.2/106.1, using Ammoguide). At the 2500fps level of velocity, that difference should yield about 100fps (15/4*2500/100= 94fps, according to one rule of thumb). That is a respectable velocity and higher than I had expected that the Jeffrey is capable of. It has more capability than most people use or talk about. Glad to hear that Ray was using the Jeffrey 400gn loads at 2600+, and also glad that he didn't push them over 2700fps. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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- PS: Capo, that 416Rigby load for a 330grain GSC at 2950 fps is one kick-butt load. I ran a group of GSC through my 416Rigby in Calif last month and was impressed to see them average 2899fps. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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I don't think there is any need for apologies Jim, most threads head off in related discussions and when everyone remains civil there are always interesting facts and figures coming out of these discussions. While I do have a 404 I have great respect for many other cartridges, perhaps not so much the later pretenders, but the original nitro expresses that sparked such an interest in Africa or DG hunting in general for many of us. It was only by chance that I acquired my 404, it could well have been a 375, 416 or 425. I guess my point was that while your data was correct from a pure statistical view, the differences between the 404J, 416R and even the 425WR is only that which you could find in an inch or two of barrel length or a tight barrel/worn throat for any cartridge. I knew Ray would come in on this discussion as he has developed and used loads for his various 404s that are as good as any other 40cal big bore. I note 416Tanzan is quoting some data for a 330gr bullet in the 416 Rigby, remember Jeffery had a 300gr bullet doing 2600fps in the old cordite low pressure loading way back when none of the other 40cal cartridges offered nothing more than their 400-410gr standard load. Unfortunately the bullet was not up to the mark for the game it was used on so failed more often than not but I'm sure with a good 300gr loaded to the pressures you have quoted in your data for the 404 and 416, we would see similar results as the 330gr loads in the 416 Rigby. Just as others have come in on this discussion, I too chimed in as I get a little annoyed when the 416s are promoted as being so far ahead of the 404 Jeffery or the 404 is only for those who will take something with nostalgic value over performance, justification for these statements coming from quoting the same old low pressure loads that were originally produced for the 404 when it was introduced some years before the 416 Rigby. As to ammo or reloading components availability, even here in NZ 404 and 416 ammo and components are both readily available. | |||
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Ray, I'm not bashing the 404 Jeffery. The Jeff was renouned for matching both the "thump" of the 416 Rigby for DG close work and the 375 H&H for distant plains game hunting. Within 300yds it is still competitive but the dearth of commercial "shelf stocked" precision aerodynamic hunting bullets weighs very heavily against it for the plus 350yd arena. Tanz, I'm on my iPad right now so I'm unable to identify the overflow and usable H2O capacity of the two cases within QuickLOAD. Rhe AGI case capacity data seems a bit light in volume; rhe QL case capacity data is not exact either unless the user creates an exact case capacity profile. Update… Per QuickLOAD – H2O Case Overflow Capacity (typically unfired/not-fireformed brass): 404 Jeffery = 113.29grs 416 Rigby = 127.50grs .423/338 Lapua Mag = 120.72grs (my wildcat) The Jeffery case is rather efficient in performance for the case dimensions. Eagle, If we based our 40 caliber cartridge decisions bases solely on the available variety of commercial bullets by caliber we'd be buying .416 or .458 caliber cartridges solely. I reckon I'm one of the dumb ones though 'cause my 40 caliber cartridge is a .423/338 Lapua Magnum wildcat. LOL... I do recollect the 300gr 404 Jeffery loading. It was designed for thin skinned lighter framed Indian game animals not the thicker skinned heavy framed African game animals. Jeffery did the same thing with a 250gr thin jacketed loading in their 333 Jeffery for Indian game use that also ended up in Africa. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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Tanks, My 404 weighs 8.5 lbs with iron sights and 9.5 lbs with scope and mounts loaded. That's the correct weight for a 404 or a 416 Rem./Rigby IMO. I got my H4831 load development some 15 years ago from an article by Joe Coogan as I recall, and I Have tried every recommended powder and none have come close to H4831. I like the advantage that H4831 fills the case half way up the neck in my chambers, so that with my tight necks, a full case of powder and a very light crimp, no need for a filler and its super accurate and bullets never set back, and brass lasts forever. Some claim you can't get 95 grs. of H4831 in a 404 case, but every 404 I've owned filled to half way up the neck, so I can only assume they were just making conversation or whatever. However, over the years their has been different specs with these old British guns. Keep in mind the water capacity of the 404 is almost that of the huge 416 Rigby so go figure, The 404 can be safely loaded to within a 100 FPS of the 416 Rigby velocity wise...I know several who shoot the 416 Rigby at 2700 to 2750 FPS with 400 gr. bullets and have been doing so for years! I even know one guy that shoots his at almost 2900 FPS and gets away with it, but as big as that case is I would think that's way over the top but I have no experience with the Rigby and I know the Rigby is a 416 Wby without a belt so maybe he knows his stuff??.. As to the 404 Jeffery's I have been shooting and loading it for ions and have "wrung it out" every conceivable way. I am convienced it is the ultimate DG round as far as I'm concerned and its never given me reason to believe otherwise when loaded to it's potential and IMO that is 2400 FPS with a 400 or 450 gr. bullet with about 92 to 93 grs of H4831.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I respectfully repeat that I have no doubt that, a .423" diameter bullet, at 400-410 grains, fired at 2150 FPS MV can be used with utmost confidence to hunt and kill the Big 6 [Hippo = 6]. I just asked why use a bolt action to fire ammo at the typically slower velocity, [200-300 FPS slower] a break open D/R fires at. It could be a guy has a dad that used the caliber. Maybe he's read books that featured the 404J in the hunter's hands and detailed the great job it did. I'm curious what's drawn this gentleman, [ggruber] to this caliber bolt action rifle over a .416 Taylor or .416 Rem or... that would be closer to, or over 5000 FP energy and flatter shooting, in case that big horned buff is staying 120 yards or more away from him? No disrespect intended at all! Just chatting. The opening poster has stated that he's intending to fire his 404J at MV of 2150-2200. The 450/400 3" historical MV = 2150, and the 3.25" version his- torically = 2175 as I recall. At 400 grains and 2150 MV FPS the ME will be a smidge over 4000 FP for all three cartridges. D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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I have been wrestling for some time between the 416 Rigby and the 404 Jeff. My reasons for choosing the latter are somewhat economical. I can build a 404 on a standard long action as opposed to a far more expensive mag length action. Brass is cheaper and more plentiful. If I had the time and money, I would build both. | |||
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Interesting. I had assumed that 416Rigby would have been cheaper, so I looked at Midway and you are right, the Jeffrey brass (Hornady) is listed as $2 less than the 416Rigby brass. But the 416Rigby is in stock and the 404Jeffrey is out-of-stock. In addition, at Powder Valley, 416Rigby Hornady brass is also in stock and is $6 cheaper than the out-of-stock Midway 404Jeffrey brass, and PowderValley doesn't even list the Jeffrey brass. So I'm not sure that price of brass is a good criterion for choosing between the Rigby and Jeffrey. Certainly choice of bullets is wider in .416" and both bullets and brass have seemed more plentiful for the Rigby. Apparently you have a different situation. PS: the Rigby brass is 2.9" long, while the Jeffrey brass is 2.86" long. I would have assumed that both cartridges would need a long/magnum action. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Thanks gg. May i ask why you are using MV 2150ish instead of 2300-2400, which is very do-able? Do you intend to use Round nose Woodleighs at 400 grains or another bullet company and weight? D/R Hunter Correct bullet placement, combined with the required depth of bullet penetration, results in an anchored animal... | |||
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Tanz, The .416 Rigby has a CIP' 3.750" COAL specification. The 404 Jeffery has a CIP' 3.530" COAL specification. Magnum length action vs standard long action. And brass prices vary quite a bit depending upon availability and location. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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While I am not recoil sensitive, I have a gamey right shoulder. I selected 2150 as a starting point. If I can comfortably move that number up, I will. I have spent a lifetime abusing my body to the fullest (martial arts, motorcycles, skydiving). It has begun to collect on the debt. | |||
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I found 404 Lapua brass at Brownells for $2 per case, which I consider expensive. If you price magnum length actions, they are outrageous (Well worth it I am sure, but 4-5 times the cost of a long action). | |||
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My $2 was referring to a box of 20 cases, basically $44 (for hornady 416Rigby) vs. $42 (for Hornady 404Jeff). If you can get 20 Lapua cases for $40, please let me know. That is a bargin. But Powder Valley $36 for 20 cases of 416Rigby is pretty good. On the cartridge overall length, you will need to consider the bullets that you intend to use. As Capo listed, a 3.53" COL will mean that the maximum allowed nose length on a bullet will be 0.67". That will apparently work with some roundnose lead bullets, but you may find that monolithic bullets and bullets with a good BC will not fit. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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Just about every .423 caliber bullet manufactured is done so to conform with the 404 Jeffery, and the 10.75x68 Mauser, short nose projections. This includes the current runs of .423 caliber CEB Safari Solids and Raptors in four bullet weights. Jim "Life's hard; it's harder if you're stupid" John Wayne | |||
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True, a short nose may fit in the magazine but it will mean a lower BC that will not be able to be remedied. This may also explain why Barnes has not produced a TTSX in .423" along the lines of the .416" 350grain TTSX with a BC of .444. 416 people are spoiled with such a sleek bullet in a relatively lightweight, big bore bullet. +-+-+-+-+-+-+ "A well-rounded hunting battery might include: 500 AccRel Nyati, 416 Rigby or 416 Ruger, 375Ruger or 338WM, 308 or 270, 243, 223" -- Conserving creation, hunting the harvest. | |||
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ggruber, you say you are building a Buffalo gun and, rest assured, the 404 will be an excellent choice. The differences between it and the 416 Rigby are purely academic as a 400gr bullet of quality construction at 2150fps will kill any animal on Earth. At the upper end of velocities, a Buff will not have the least interest in the attributes of pushing 2-400fps more with the Rigby over the Jeffery. Having owned classic examples of both, I can say that the 404 is a generally more pleasant rifle to shoot than the 416 loaded at similar velocities. Don't know why exactly, but it sure seemed that way to me, but I am no speed or recoil junky either. | |||
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I don't want to be argumentative since I have received so much good advice on this thread, and since this will be my first trip for DG, but I do know something about BC and long range shooting. Since almost all of my shooting will be well under 200 yards, why would I need the advantage of a 444 BC bullet? I have built two 30 cal (308 and 3oo WSM) rifles that both shoot 1/4 MOA with high BC bullets. If the 404 shoots 1.5 MOA I will be quite pleased and that should be more than adequate for the ranges specified, shouldn't it? | |||
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well said... | |||
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