I am putting together a new rifle. It is mostly just a fun project.
I already have lots of different rifles, so now I am looking at a big bore. I plan to make it with a 22 inch barrel, and it is intended to be a close-in type gun. I may take it out for white tail on occasion. If I ever get the chance to travel, I will probably take it for that. And if it is versatile enough,and I like it enough, maybe it will become my go-to gun. I don't really have one of those. I would like to have a gun I have shot a lot and know very well.
Most of my shooting will probably be done with mild loads.
I had planned on going with the 458 win mag, but now I am not sure. The 375 would allow the use of lighter bullets, and higher velocities for greater range. But I really have no plans of long shots. Still, it is nice to have the option.

Let me know what you think.

Hi Frank,

Yes and yes, go with the .416 Hoffman/Remington

Go with the 375H&H and have fun! It'll do whatever need doing up to the BIG STUFF and then some! Been around for a long time and has stood the test of time! "Lions,Tigers,Elephants..........OH MY" GHD

Do both 458 and the 375 then your problem would be soved. Can't go worng with any of the two.

The 375 H&H, as its a universal soldier. Its been there and done that.

They .375 is a world more versital, and can be used for about anything. The .458 is boat load of fun with cast bullets, but then again, so is the .375. The .458 is limited for long range shooting. If you do go to Africa your guide will have a stopping rifle, so you don't really need one. Bottom line; I've had a few of both and if had to have just one, the .375 would be my first choice hands down. JMO

Well, let me throw in a few of my thoughts that are makeing it tough for me to decide between the two.
1) The 458 is more of a straight wall, there is less powder for the weight of bullet that is there. Sort of like a long pistol shell. So it would seem that it would be more efficient in the short barrel I plan. Less wasted powder and less muzzle blast.
2) With the 458 I could down load and use 45-70 bullets at 45-70 speeds for deer and plinking. It would kind of be 2 guns in one.
3) The 375 has lighter bullets available,down to about 235gr. If lighter bullets can be slowed down the recoil should be less.
4) The 375 has more aerodynamic bullets available, like the Ballistic Tip. Obviously these could be launched to carry quite a long ways accurately. And I like accuracy.

Frank: The 458wm is tapered and belted not straight.
I have a 458 WM that I load with cheapo Rem JSP 405 gr/69.9 gr H4895 for plinking and everything here in NA except big bears an it does a grand job. Loaded with 300gr bullets and sighted in 3" high @ 100 I can hit anything out to 250 yards easily. When I went to Tanzania to kill some buffalo I loaded it with TSX 450gr to kill them without all the hoopla you'll read about buffalo shot with so many other calibers BANG THUMP DEAD!
Of course the .375 H&H has done all this as well though it will never be considered a varmit or deer caliber so why not have a real big bore if your yen is for big bore?
Life begins at .45!!

If I were you, I would build a 416 Rigby or Remington, and have the best of all worlds. The Rigby would be my choice, it is a much lower pressure round. My PH has toted the same RSM for a dozen years, and has never had a failure to perform. You can choose from a number of custom features if you go with a CZ, and very reasonably to boot. I shoot a lot of 360gr gaschecked cast bullets in my 416 Rigby CZ at 2100fps for practice. You cannot go wrong, but I also have a CZ in 450 Dakota that went to Africa last month with me for Buffalo.

Rich
Buffalo Killer

.375 H&H Way to go.

Roland

Frank,

From your handle it looks like you're a 45-70 guy, as I am. The 458 is sorta like a turbo charged 45-70! My 458 is a CZ 550 and allows a great deal of flexibility for anything from crows to elephant! With the right load, it's as flat shooting as a 308 Win or 30-06 with 180gr loads.

Yes, a 350gr TSX or 300gr TSX at 2500 to 2700 fps is plain flat shooting for anything in N.A., and most places in the world!

Then, you can LOAD it WAY UP for the biggest and meanest... or WAY DOWN for the littlest and meekest... like crows and groundhog! No problem.. I've had a couple of each, and IME the 458 is a LOT MORE FUN!

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:

2) With the 458 I could down load and use 45-70 bullets at 45-70 speeds for deer and plinking. It would kind of be 2 guns in one.

Hornady load manuals used to have reduced loads for the 375 H&H that copied the 375 Winchester. The bullet was built for the lever action round so should be a good for hunting deer and such at the reduced load.

get a 375 Ruger, for 850 bucks, new, and be done with it.. light, fast, good weight, good barrel length ...

don't give me the "upstart" crap.. the 458 is barely 1/2 the age of a 375, so upstart THAT ... and the lott is even younger

if you wanta 45, get the cz in 458 lott, bob the barrel to 23" and shoot 350gr barnes TSX in it.

Was in the Gander Mountain store on the North side of Houston today trying to find loading supplys and for grins I checked out the prices on ammo:
.416Rigby- $299-
.458Win- $179-
.375H&H- $99-
All were federal premium safari. No .375H&H Remmy green box and no Winchester super-x .458 softpoints to be found.
The store was also out of magnum primers and the powders I was looking for. O- well. They said a shipment would be in on Monday. Rodney.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
get a 375 Ruger, for 850 bucks, new, and be done with it.. light, fast, good weight, good barrel length ...

don't give me the "upstart" crap.. the 458 is barely 1/2 the age of a 375, so upstart THAT ... and the lott is even younger

if you wanta 45, get the cz in 458 lott, bob the barrel to 23" and shoot 350gr barnes TSX in it.

On the other hand, get the CZ in 458WM, leave the barrel at 25", shoot 350 TSXs at 2750 fps and the Lott will be eating it's dust!

uh huh...

except you can't buy a new cz in 458 winmag in the US today, and if you get the lott, with the 25" barrel, and load that er.. hot, you'll also have impressive speeds...

one can't say enough for the 458 winmag... it doesn't matter how much you say, it's still a smaller case than the lott

I faced the same choice last year, I chose the 458, for cheaper bullets. I found no cheap 375 bullets.
In the 458, I use a lot of the Remington 405's. I hunted with 400 grain Barnes Originals (45-70.) I killed two does with mine, my cousin killed a buck with the 458 I built him.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
uh huh...

except you can't buy a new cz in 458 winmag in the US today, and if you get the lott, with the 25" barrel, and load that er.. hot, you'll also have impressive speeds...

one can't say enough for the 458 winmag... it doesn't matter how much you say, it's still a smaller case than the lott

Just curious,but why can't you buy a new CZ in 458 wm, in the US,today?

cz-usa doesn't offer them, they only offer the lott

OK, my decision has been partly made by accident.
I picked up a savage magnum a while back for this project. Remember I had intended to get the .458 win mag.
The 375 H&H won't fit in this action, but the 375 ruger will work just fine, with ballistics the same as the H&H.
I think I am now leaning toward the 375 Ruger.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
uh huh...

one can't say enough for the 458 winmag... it doesn't matter how much you say, it's still a smaller case than the lott

Not if you seat the bullets to the same COL... which is possible in the CZ 550. Plus the fact that the 458 Winnie still has a longer "freebore" by about 1/4" when loaded to max COL in each... which means you can load 'er HOTTER a la Weatherby!!!!!!

And, as shootaway asked: Why can't you buy a CZ in 458WM in the US today? The last time I looked they were listed.

OK, Jeff, you answered it... if they're not offered by CZ - US. Too bad. It seems living in Canada is getting more interesting all the time... It seems mine came directly from the Czech Republic to Canada and has the classic British style stock... which I much prefer. At a very good price as well.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
cz-usa doesn't offer them, they only offer the lott

Jeff; I've been doing a search on the CZ-USA web site and the 458WM is listed for the Standard Magnum, the Safari Magnum and the American Safari Magnum... What gives??? Do you have inside information that's not on their site yet??

Or, are you just confusing the rest of us??

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
OK, my decision has been partly made by accident.
I picked up a savage magnum a while back for this project. Remember I had intended to get the .458 win mag.
The 375 H&H won't fit in this action, but the 375 ruger will work just fine, with ballistics the same as the H&H.
I think I am now leaning toward the 375 Ruger.

I built two 458's on the Savage 110 this year. I almost went with the 375 Ruger, and still might.

My friend has an identical pair of stainless Savage safari type rifles for sale in his shop. They both have barrel bands, express sights, and beautiful walnut blind magazine stocks. One is a 458 Win Mag and the other is a 300 Win Mag. He can make a deal on these. They are brand new but dinged up a little. johnmzeigler@verizon.net or (814) 435-3544 I also have a friend with one or two stainless CRF Win 70's in 416 Rem with Douglas barrels and a high end synthetic stocks (name escapes me) jfp468@hotmail.com

if you want a bigbore get the 458,if you want a medium bore get the 375.the 458 with a 350gr x pushed fast will extend it's range.Both are fun.
good luck

There is a good reason the h&h is worshiped & imitated the world cause its what every other 375 compares to, go with #1.

quote:

Originally posted by shorthair:
There is a good reason the h&h is worshiped & imitated the world cause it's what everything is compared to, go with #1.

Fixed it for you

Do both. Do the .375 first, though, as it's more generally useful.

I vote for the .458 but make it a Lott. The reason you can just do more easier. I have loaded 300gr cast at 1200fps to 600gr jacketed at 2125fps the last one will get your attention.
I like and have .375 H&H but it is more limited in bullet availability. Saying that I wouldn’t feel handicapped if it was my only rifle.
Bill

quote:

Originally posted by .458 Only:

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
get a 375 Ruger, for 850 bucks, new, and be done with it.. light, fast, good weight, good barrel length ...

don't give me the "upstart" crap.. the 458 is barely 1/2 the age of a 375, so upstart THAT ... and the lott is even younger

if you wanta 45, get the cz in 458 lott, bob the barrel to 23" and shoot 350gr barnes TSX in it.

On the other hand, get the CZ in 458WM, leave the barrel at 25", shoot 350 TSXs at 2750 fps and the Lott will be eating it's dust!

..

, Is too fast for a Win mag with a 350 gr TSX ...The Lott will push them @ 2715 fps with no pressure problems ,but not the Win Mag ..... Jeffe has pretty sound advice there ..........And obviously I am a 458 Win Mag guy .. But a 20 " 375 Ruger Alaskan .is pretty hard to beat ....

I'm pretty sure I am going with the 375 Ruger. If for no other reason, I keep hearing about the recoil difference between the 375 and the 458. I want to be able to hit what I aim at.
Now I just need to decide on the barrel length,depending on how you measure that. And make sure of the twist rate.

On the other hand, get the CZ in 458WM, leave the barrel at 25", shoot 350 TSXs at 2750 fps and the Lott will be eating it's dust! [/QUOTE]..

, Is too fast for a Win mag with a 350 gr TSX ...The Lott will push them @ 2715 fps with no pressure problems ,but not the Win Mag ..... Jeffe has pretty sound advice there ..........And obviously I am a 458 Win Mag guy .. But a 20 " 375 Ruger Alaskan .is pretty hard to beat ....[/QUOTE]

lol !

gumboot; read my post again because you've missed the most important part! YOU CAN LOAD THE 458WM TO THE SAME COL AS THE LOTT IN A CZ550 BECAUSE THE ACTION AND MAGAZINE IN EACH (CZ) IS THE SAME!!! MEANING: THERE'S NO PRACTICAL DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THEM IN POWDER CAPACITY AND CHAMBER SPACE, SO THE PRESSURE WILL BE IDENTICAL!!!! Where do you think I got my load for the 458WM? From the Lott, of course!

Do you understand the principle involved here? IF YOU LOAD A 458WM TO THE SAME COL AS THE LOTT (possible in the CZ) THEN, EVEN THOUGH THE BRASS IS .30" SHORTER, THE LOAD ISN'T! SO, IN A 23" LOTT, THE 25" 458WM/LOTT WOULD HAVE AN ADVANTAGE! Plus, the 458WM still has more "freebore".

For my two cents, if I have to lug a big action, like the 375 H&H CZ 550, I want it in a heavier caliber, like 458 Lott, or.475 Ackley.

The appeal of the Ruger .375 and .458 Win mag is some of the light, compact guns I've missed buying around here, that give you a nice, light, quick carry package, and, since you are going to shoot it with mainly light loads, the shorter action sounds like the way to go.

. 458 Only , ya , I understand the principle pretty well . And I have done just that , but 2750 fps is still too fast ............2715 fps is very fast and safe / not too hard on anything ....... An animal isn,t going to react any differently to being hit with a 350 gr TSX going 35 fps faster , but the rifle and brass might .....

quote:

Originally posted by gumboot458:
. 458 Only , ya , I understand the principle pretty well . And I have done just that , but 2750 fps is still too fast ............2715 fps is very fast and safe / not too hard on anything ....... An animal isn,t going to react any differently to being hit with a 350 gr TSX going 35 fps faster , but the rifle and brass might .....

I quit on this thread a couple weeks back, and just picked up on it again today... So an animal won't notice the difference of 35 fps but the gun and brass might ?????

NOW THATS HILARIOUS!!! You've sure got a sense of humor gumboot... I'll give ya that...

quote:

Originally posted by frank4570:
OK, my decision has been partly made by accident.
I picked up a savage magnum a while back for this project. Remember I had intended to get the .458 win mag.
The 375 H&H won't fit in this action, but the 375 ruger will work just fine, with ballistics the same as the H&H.
I think I am now leaning toward the 375 Ruger.

If you are only doing one rifle perhaps a better compromise would be the .416 Ruger - bullets as light as 300gr and as heavy as 450gr. It won't hit as hard as the .458 but will definately hit harder than a .375.

+++++1

.375 H&H!

quote:

If I were you, I would build a 416 Rigby or Remington, and have the best of all worlds. The Rigby would be my choice, it is a much lower pressure round.

I would agree.

Unless you want to fire cast lead gas checked bullets at your deer, use blackpowder paper patched loads or or load the 458 down to 45-70 specification.

With 416 Rigby, or maybe as an "exotic" Holland's 400 H & H Magnum, being a dual performer closer to the smaller 375 but effectively as efficient as the bigger 458. The 400 H & H has some dimensional advantages over the 416 Rigby that may justify it in a bespoke or custom rifle.

I would say if you did go to a 458 to get a Lott. But it will still have that rainbow trajectory for use at longer ranges.

. 458 only , your quite a distinguished guy ..... only the 2nd guy to make my ignore list