quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I've shot them through 6 ft diameter trees with no problems. They also open to around 1".-Rob

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
Thinking it over,I would prefer to have a flat meplat solid.I remember testing my RN solids by hitting them with a sledgehammer.It was very difficult to hit them straight on with great force, without the hammer veering off course.I can imagine them doing the same in animal tissue.I think I will make the Hornady DGS my first choice solid.Also,from what we've seen from Micheal's tests and heard from some people's experiences,given the choice and availability,one would have to be a fool to choose a RN-that is ofcourse if you are definately sure they feed all the time in your rifle,if using a bolt rifle.

quote:

Michael are you getting this? You MIGHT want to change your testing proticalls.

quote:

Originally posted by shootaway:
You have two masses colliding and the shape of one causes it to receive the energy from the collision from the side causing it to veer.

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Good Morning 465!

quote:

We have had this friendly discussion at least a couple of times before but this time I am going to put you on the spot. Can you prove the assertion that RN are more likely to go off course than FN bullets or is it just your opinion?

Ahhh, yes, the age old discussion RNvsFN. The very reason that I got so heavy involved in testing solids is the very fact that I myself had an issue in 2006 when on a bullet testing mission in South Africa. All plains game this one, but I did test on giraffe, eland, several wildebeasts, zebra and such. I had a prototype RN solid at the time for my 50 B&M prototype, and I watched it drive off course as much as 90 degrees, several times. I was rather distraught, and I almost refused to believe something could be that awful, but there it was and it did. One time Andrew and I watched the round nose solid enter the rear of an eland, and exit the top of it's back and hit a large tree limb above the eland knocking the bark off! Broadside shots on wildebeast and kudu drove relatively straight, as this was not enough distance to cause it to drive off course. Later in that same trip I was offered one hell of a good deal on elephant, 4 of them in fact, I had to refuse it because I knew I did not have a decent tool to work with, and would never have trusted those bullets for even broadside shots on elephant.

There are many other instances I know of with this happening with various different sorts of round nose fmj or solids. You know of many of these yourself, they have been shown before right here. There are several of our own AR members that have had this very thing happen, all have come forward before. I see no need to drag that on again.

Now I realize that much of this is not written down and statistics provided as you like, but none the less, it does happen, it does exist, and it's not magic, it's real. Obviously you doubt my methods of test work, and that is ok, I do not protest you, however I do in fact know the test work is valid, and I can show that 100% of the time a round nose solid will fail, and that a flat nose solid of many varieties is successful in the test work, and at the very least this alone shows the potential is there for failure, or for success. As you know, I am not saying the RN will fail 100% of the time in the field, as it does not, but the potential is there for it to do so, and it has.

Enough, this is somewhat of a hijack of Dave's thread and not the jest of what he is trying to point out. So I say we leave it at that and move once again forward.

Michael

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

I agree my friend, let's let this drop here but I'm sure we will continue this debate between us in the most friendly terms. I will say that the RN bulets that you used were of the hemispherical RN type that I mentioned and it isn't surprising that that they failed. But as you have admitted you have not shot any game with premium RN steel jacketed solids such as Woodleigh or the first generation Hornady RN steel solids. Had you used some of those you might not have every looked for something better and not done the work that you have.

465H&H

quote:

You have two masses colliding and the shape of one causes it to receive the energy from the collision from the side causing it to veer.

quote:

Originally posted by 465H&H:

quote:

Originally posted by michael458:
Good Morning 465!

quote:

We have had this friendly discussion at least a couple of times before but this time I am going to put you on the spot. Can you prove the assertion that RN are more likely to go off course than FN bullets or is it just your opinion?

Ahhh, yes, the age old discussion RNvsFN. The very reason that I got so heavy involved in testing solids is the very fact that I myself had an issue in 2006 when on a bullet testing mission in South Africa. All plains game this one, but I did test on giraffe, eland, several wildebeasts, zebra and such. I had a prototype RN solid at the time for my 50 B&M prototype, and I watched it drive off course as much as 90 degrees, several times. I was rather distraught, and I almost refused to believe something could be that awful, but there it was and it did. One time Andrew and I watched the round nose solid enter the rear of an eland, and exit the top of it's back and hit a large tree limb above the eland knocking the bark off! Broadside shots on wildebeast and kudu drove relatively straight, as this was not enough distance to cause it to drive off course. Later in that same trip I was offered one hell of a good deal on elephant, 4 of them in fact, I had to refuse it because I knew I did not have a decent tool to work with, and would never have trusted those bullets for even broadside shots on elephant.

There are many other instances I know of with this happening with various different sorts of round nose fmj or solids. You know of many of these yourself, they have been shown before right here. There are several of our own AR members that have had this very thing happen, all have come forward before. I see no need to drag that on again.

Now I realize that much of this is not written down and statistics provided as you like, but none the less, it does happen, it does exist, and it's not magic, it's real. Obviously you doubt my methods of test work, and that is ok, I do not protest you, however I do in fact know the test work is valid, and I can show that 100% of the time a round nose solid will fail, and that a flat nose solid of many varieties is successful in the test work, and at the very least this alone shows the potential is there for failure, or for success. As you know, I am not saying the RN will fail 100% of the time in the field, as it does not, but the potential is there for it to do so, and it has.

Enough, this is somewhat of a hijack of Dave's thread and not the jest of what he is trying to point out. So I say we leave it at that and move once again forward.

Michael

I agree my friend, let's let this drop here but I'm sure we will continue this debate between us in the most friendly terms. I will say that the RN bulets that you used were of the hemispherical RN type that I mentioned and it isn't surprising that that they failed. But as you have admitted you have not shot any game with premium RN steel jacketed solids such as Woodleigh or the first generation Hornady RN steel solids. Had you used some of those you might not have every looked for something better and not done the work that you have.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
If your ever in Vegas or SF, I would be happy to facilitate your becoming a believer.

quote:

Originally posted by Robgunbuilder:
I really enjoy letting folks shoot the .600OK. If your ever out this way stop by. We'll go out into the desert and make some big metal deposits! Nevada is starting to run low and everyone needs to do their part!-Rob